WCSox

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) There's obviously something wrong with Garcia. It's either chemical or physical. He's throwing a lot softer than he has in years past. He's either been overworked, is hiding an injury, or is off of something that increased his velocity. I don't like any of those. His fastball was in the 92-94 mph range last night. IIRC, used to throw 95-96. That's a drop-off, but not a significant one. If he's throwing 92-94 with a 80 mph hook, he's going to get hitters out if he locates. Unfortunately, he was constantly getting behind in counts last night.

I think that they're missing Ozzie's point. He doesn't necessarily condone steroid use. The issue that he had was with teammates ratting each other out. Rifts like that can destroy a team's chemistry and affect their play adversely. Ozzie's job is to win baseball games, not to clean up the sport.

QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 08:57 AM) Speaking of Freddy, I read where he blew off Sportsfest. This after blowing off the same event in November and missing soxfest in the past. Makes you wonder about a guy's character doesn't it? One of the announcers during the WS last year noted that Freddy had a history of being "difficult" early in his career in Houston. I don't recall the specifics, though.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 08:52 AM) The next time up, the pitcher decided to brush me back. I didnt react fast enough and took a 91mph fastball off my elbow. It shattered and that was it. Goddamn, that's awful. Sorry to hear that.

I rotated around between CF, P, and 3B from little league through high school. I always wanted to be a pitcher, but was horrible on the mound. Had above-average zip on my fastball and had a decent slider, but my arm is inaccurate as hell. I unintentionally hit three batters in a game during my freshman year of HS (two in the same inning) and a brawl broke out. I asked the coach to take me out of the rotation after that. After that, the coach tried to stick me at 3B but, again, my inaccurate arm was a problem. So, I moved back to my "natural" position, CF. I was pretty good out there. I had some speed back then and also have good depth perception and can get good reads on the ball. Managed to throw a couple guys out at the plate as well. I was an above-average hitter with decent power to the opposite field, but not prolific enough to start on a college team.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Jun 12, 2006 -> 07:51 AM) I think they're both going to air, but I will avoid the Eastern Seaboard Propaganda Network for all I'm worth. ...actually, I have a softball game tonight, so I'll miss most or all of the game anyway... For those with the Extra Innings pakcage via iN DEMAND, it's still scheduled to air on Fox Sports Southwest. I'll take the Rangers announcers over ESPN any day.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:57 PM) Just because I correctly identify that Garcia and Garland are pitching poorly doesn't mean I must find a realistic upgrade for my claim to have merit. Gee, thanks for pointing out the obvious. BTW, I wouldn't characterize Freddy's pitching as "poor" thus far. He's had a few really bad games (especially lately), but has offset them with some very good ones. He's been inconsistent and below-average overall, but not exactly awful. The good news is that even with a below-average Freddy, bad pitching from Jon, horrible middle relief, and Uribe and Anderson hitting below the Mendoza line, the Sox still have the second-best record in the league and are currently on pace to win 99 games. Jon and Freddy are both healthy and their career numbers suggest that they'll get better over the course of the season. Same goes for Uribe and it's likely that KW will bolster the 'pen by the end of next month. For a team with so many problems, the Sox are still in pretty good shape.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:48 PM) Why the need for a micro look into our pitchers' performaces when a macro look does just fine: ERA Buehrle: 3.21 Vazquez: 4.19 Contreras: 2.54 Garcia: 5.13 Garland: 6.19 If your ERA is bad, and you raise it by giving up 7 runs in a game, expect others to clamor for someone who can get the f***ing job done. And just who is going to come in and "get the f***ing job done"? This is the third time I've asked.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:35 PM) Who gives a s*** what would happen if the season ended today. What is your point? We're on pace to win 99 games? lol. Oh, yeah, that makes me feel so much better. I'll just sit back and relax because we're on a 99 win pace. Thanks. You're right. I'd rather read your stupid posts that speculate that we won't win 90 games this season for some illogical reason. Please show me where I say that the "Tigers suck". :rolly Being blatantly dishonest like that just makes you look that much worse.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:23 PM) LOL. You obviously didn't get the point. Let me help you. WE WILL NOT GET TO THE PLAYOFFS WITH LESS THAN 90 WINS. IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THE ASTROS DID IN A CRAPPY NATIONAL LEAGUE. Get it now? And what makes you so sure that we won't win 90 games or get to the playoffs? Let me help you: IF THE SEASON ENDED TODAY, WE'D BE IN THE PLAYOFFS. WE'RE ALSO ON PACE TO WIN 99 GAMES RIGHT NOW, DESPITE BAD PITCHING AT THE BACK OF OUR ROTATION. Get it now? Try doing your homework next time. QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:25 PM) Horrible. Simply horrible. Yes, your posts certainly are.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:19 PM) You're missing the point. You compared the Sox's young 2000 rotation to the 2006 Tigers rotation as evidence that the Tigers rotation won't sustain long-term success. No, I'm just saying that they've never done it before. The chances of four of their starters to have career years simultaneously isn't that high. It's not an argument. It's a question. My God. :rolly I'll ask one more time: What "upgrade" are you talking about.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 09:03 PM) And how many games did the Astros win last year? I believe it was 89. You're smokin' that really good s*** if you think we're getting to the playoffs in the AL with 89 wins. The Astros also won the NL last year... with not even half of the offensive talent that we have. Oh, and the Sox also have the second-best record in the league right now, which means that they would be in the playoffs if the season ended today. Nice analysis there, Sherlock.

QUOTE(shoota @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 08:57 PM) That's not a good example to use in your argument. Sure the young 2000 Sox rotation didn't sustain success after the 2000 season, but it was good enough to win its division that year, which means Detroit's young rotation could be good enough to win our division this year. Boy, that's putting it lightly. That season was the end of Sirotka's career. Parque never pitched a full season again. Eldred had so many problems with his elbow that he had to move to middle relief. Baldwin had an unimpressive year with Seattle and fizzled out after '01. Detroit very well may win the division. And they might get swept in the playoffs, just like the 2000 Sox. So, who do you suggest that we upgrade our rotation with? And how would you accomplish that AND address our horrible bullpen situation?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 08:47 PM) Blah, blah, blah. I'm going by what I see as of right now. And that's why your post is so ridiculous. Funny, I'm more concerned about how the Sox are doing. Oh, but they're the model which the Sox should follow, right? Inexperienced pitching, an aging and injury-prone catcher, a RF with a surgically-repaird knee who is past his prime, mediocre defense, and no ability to manufacture runs... sounds great! No, but it'd get him out of the rotation, which you consider the most important thing. BTW, 2/5 of the '05 Astros rotation sucked as well. How'd that work out for them? You're the one who brought it up... Dude, shut up.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 08:34 PM) I don't know what it's gonna take before people realize that the Tigers are a good team. Will they win the division? I don't know. But I think we're at a point now that we can stop waiting for the Tigers to all of a sudden fall apart. They've got a good staff. Period. People here already understand that. But your hard-on for a pitching staff that hasn't done anything noteworthy over the long run doesn't make any sense. The Sox had a "good staff" in the first half of 2000. How'd that work out?

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 08:24 PM) Or forget the fact that they're in first place? Or the fact that they lead the AL in era? What does them not being in the playoffs since '87 have to do with '06? Outside of Kenny Rogers (who is a terrible 2nd-half pitcher, BTW), none of those guys have ever done squat in the majors. Oh, and Maroth just had elbow surgery. And Verlander, the rookie, has never thrown anything close to 200 innings before and it's unlikely that his arm is conditioned well enough to pitch effectively in September. You want to go with a bunch of front-runners who've never put together a good full season before? Suit yourself. I'll stick with Mark, Jose, Javy, Freddy, and Jon. Going into today's game, Freddy's ERA was about 4.6. Overall, he's been decent this year. Not that great, but not horrible. McCarthy would most likely put up an ERA somewhere in the 4.5-5.5 range, which would be an improvement over what Jon's been doing. Then again, it's unlikely that Garland will continue to suck this badly for the remainder of the season. As disappointing as Jon (and Freddy, to a lesser extent) have been, the Sox need reliable middle relievers more than anything else right now. Sean Tracey on the mound doing his impression of Rick "Wild Thing" Vaughn in September will kill us. And 2/5th of it has been outstanding. And the #3 has been pretty good. And it's not even mid-June yet. And we have the second-best record in baseball right now. What was your point again?

Best loss ever. They deserve a standing O for that 9th-inning effort.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 08:01 PM) Well, Detroit is getting good performances from all their starters every night. We're not gonna have a 15-game lead to play with this time around. If we're gonna get back to the playoffs, we need Garland and Garcia to wake-up. Yeah, because Detroit is the model MLB franchise. Forget the fact that they rely on three-run homers to win games. Forget the fact that they can't win a series against any of the elite AL teams. Forget the fact that they haven't been to the playoffs since 1987. Most teams would love to have Freddy as their #4. Most teams would also love to have the option of replacing Garland with McCarthy, if needed. Our starting pitching is not as lights-out as it was last season, but it isn't that bad, either. On the other hand, our current bullpen isn't even close to as good as last season's. If KW doesn't deal for a veteran reliever or two, that's going to be the difference between this and last season.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 07:55 PM) I LOVE this by the way......even if we lose tonight, we are showing heart and balls and no quit again tonight. And if it propels BA out of his horrible slump, the loss was well worth it.

QUOTE(Jordan4life_2006 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 07:51 PM) I think there's definitely some concerns. We can't use the "it's early" excuse anymore. Contreras, Buehrle, and Vazquez have all been solid to dominant. Garland and Garcia have been average to pathetic. We can talk about the bullpen-ss-cf holes all we want. This team begins and ends with its starting rotation. Most GMs would sell their souls to the Devil to have our rotation... even with below-average pitching from Garcia and wretched pitching from Garland. Three of oru five starters are pitching well and two of those guys are likely All-Stars. I'll take three quality starters and a competent bullpen over five quality starters and no bullpen any day.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 07:09 PM) I think we all know that Garcia's rotation spot is as secure as that of Buehrle, Contreras, and Vazquez. I really wonder how Garcia is able to get hitters out though. Unless ESPN's radar gun was completely inaccurate, his arm still looks OK. His "high-gear" fastball was in the 92-94 mph range tonight. Much of his trouble tonight was due to his inability to locate his hook. But, yeah, he hasn't pitched well at all in his last few starts. I'd like to see Freddy here for another season and then shown the door when his contract expires. He's still very effective at times and would make a solid #4.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 07:25 PM) Good job, Tracey. Show some balls. If you're gonna suck, you might as well hit people, too. He looked like "Wild Thing" Vaughn from Major League.

Crede and Uribe have banned you from the ballpark for bad-mouthing them here. Did you check to see if they're sold out for the season? Those are the best seats in the house, IMO, and I'd imagine that they'd sell out quickly.

Pablo's a great bunter/base-stealer and one of my favorites on the team, but he's not a starter. He's mediocre at SS and 3B, is probably worse than Pods in the OF, and can't do much more at the plate than make decent contact.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 02:26 PM) Thats because everyone on this board and sports fans in general tend to over-react over every little thing... All the more reason for Jon to avoid talking about the fans entirely. QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 11, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) There is a trade off for guys making all this money. You get grilled by the press. You get bombarded with autograph requests. You are most likely going to get bothered no matter where you go. If its something they don't like, and I wouldn't blame them, they should go find a different profession.