Lillian

However they arrange the order, it would look very good, providing Robert and Madrigal hit the ground running. It was that uncertainty that prompted me to drop Robert further down in the order, as a rookie. Once he is established and, if he is as good as we hope, he'll obviously bat much higher in the order.

There are 4 serious problems with Mazara; 1) He is terrible against LH pitching, and would therefore have to be platooned. 2) He is not a good defensive right fielder 3) Obtaining him would require giving up a prospect. If it weren't anyone significant, that might be acceptable. 4) Ideally, the Sox should have a legitimate middle of the order LH bat and Mazara would better fit in the bottom 1/3 of the order, of the Sox lineup. Guys such as Moose, or Grandal would qualify, but not Mazara. Unfortunately, neither of those two are right fielders. Now, if they want to put Moustakas at 3RD and move Moncada to RF, or at first and find another right fielder, that would be doable. We all know that Grandal could also fill several roles, on this roster. The right field hole could be filled with a lesser player, provided the Sox find their middle of the order, LH bat, somewhere else. They don't need a good hitter at every single spot in the order. For example, if they had both Grandal and Moustakas, the lineup could look like this, versus RH pitching, by the All Star break: 2B Madrigal SS T. A. 3B Moncada (Switch Hitter) LF Eloy 1B Moustakas LH DH Abreu C Grandal (Switch Hitter) CF Robert RF ????? Leury, Engel A lineup construction, such as that, can easily hide a weak bat at #9. The key to that offense being really good would depend more upon how good Robert and Madrigal are, which is yet undetermined. In 2021, when Vaughn arrives, they could decide whether, or not, to resign McCann and what to do with Collins, although he wouldn't get much of an opportunity to demonstrate his progress, with that roster. If Vaughn were the real deal, they could let Vaughn play first, Grandal catch and Moustakas becomes the DH. That could mark the end of the Abreu era. He is almost 2 years older than Moose, who offers more flexibility, given his ability to play 3RD, 2ND and first. At any rate, having that depth is always advantages, and they could also trade Moose, depending upon his contract. Moreover, by then, one of the OF prospects might emerge as a realistic candidate for RF. We can hope.

This is a very valid argument. All one has to do is look at the untenable position, in which some of the big spending teams have placed themselves, to appreciate this perspective. We just spent several pages, discussing how desperate Boston is to shed huge contracts, owed to older and injured players. They aren't the only ones. The contracts for players such as Pujols, Cano and Miggy should serve as warning signs to Hahn. Perhaps just exercising a little more patience, to see how things progress this season, will better determine what this team will need for their real window of contention, in 2021. It's quite conceivable that Madrigal, Robert and Vaughn will fill 3 holes, and that one of the several OF prospects will fill the hole in RF. The starting staff may have enough depth with Gio, Kopech, Cease, Lopez, Dunning, even without the soon to become Free agent, Rodon. It's not easy to have the patience, but in this case, it may be a real virtue. It wouldn't be unreasonable to just fill a couple of holes, with shorter term contracts, and maintain the financial flexibility.

Don't you guys think that all of these WAR valuations might be somewhat mitigated by Boston's desperation to shed salary? How much money do you suppose they would have to include, if a team offered to simply take Price and his contract, off their hands? I'm not suggesting that would be a wise thing for Hahn to do, but rather, i'm merely trying to assess the degree of desperation that Boston's GM might be feeling.

I haven't finished reading all of the posts, in this thread, but I would not give up Bummer and Steeper, in that deal. That's a lot of payroll to take on, while giving up a young, cost controlled potential closer.

There is a line of reasoning out there, which suggests that the White Sox might be able to acquire him, for virtually nothing, if they would take on one of Boston's albatross contracts i.e.; David Price. That contract ($32 Million per year, for 3 years) represents a lot of money, but if Price can return to something close to his performance level, of recent years, it might be worth considering. He's getting pretty old, but if healthy, would still be a decent addition to the rotation. What is the expectation for Price, for 2020? Boston might include a little cash, to help pay for that contract, if they're really desperate for some salary relief. The other intriguing possibility is to somehow include Benintendi, in a deal. All just food for thought.

There is some speculation that the two Sox could make a deal, based upon their financial circumstances. The Palehose have plenty of payroll flexibility and the ROX have serious payroll constraints. Some of the potential deals have already been discussed here, but it would be nice to have a thread exclusively dedicated to this topic. What are your thoughts? This article is a good starting place: https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/white-sox/jd-martinez-mookie-betts-andrew-benintendi-could-white-sox-seek-big-splash-trade-red-sox-mlb-trade-rumors-free-agency-hot-stove-offseason This podcast discusses the topic: https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/podcast

Precisely what I thought. Playing in Guaranteed Rate Park, I would expect more homers and fewer doubles, which would be fine. His home run production spiked, when he was traded to the Cubs, although he also continued to hit doubles.

I don't understand. I thought that Comerica Park's spacious outfield, would be ideal for gap hitters. While it's not conducive to homers, it's fine for doubles.

I was thinking that I'd rather flip Abreu and Eloy. Putting the 2 LH hitters; Moncada and Grandal together, is not the optimum lineup.

Works for me. Sold!!!!

Castellanos is fine, as an overall hitter, but he has only been average vs. RH pitching, until last year. If they sign him, they still will need to find a LH bat. If he can really hold his own, in RF, then I'd like Grandal as the LH bat, at first base and DH, rotating with Abreu and splitting the catching with McCann, which has often been suggested here. Then go get some pitching.

No legitimate right fielder, no LH bat and no real stud starter. If that's the off season, pretty pathetic.

If he is really that good, I'm all onboard. I haven't really seen him pitch, and my judgement was influenced by the stats. Do you honestly think that he has a realistic chance of being a #1 or 2?

Do you remember any more details, regarding his rationale and how the other analysts reacted?

Do you have a link?

If McDaniel is correct, that validates my assessment that Wheeler is not a top of the rotation starter. Doesn't $17 Million per year suggest that he is merely a #3? The issue should be more about finding a pitcher, or two, who can be difference makers and Wheeler doesn't seem to qualify.

I agree that Cole is not at all realistic. However, if the second best free agent pitcher is also not feasible, then I'd pass on acquiring a free agent pitcher and just hope that the youngsters reach their potential. I can't get excited about adding an arm from the second tier of this free agent class. The Sox have enough candidates for middle rotation arms, which might develop into top of the rotation quality pitchers. I don't see Wheeler as a good bet to be an Ace, or a #2.

Wheeler's 2019 numbers against LH hitters were very pedestrian: AVG .275 OBP .341 SLG .434 He was better in 2018, against LH hitters, but prior to that, he was worse. Good luck when facing division rival, LH hitters such as Lindor, Ramirez, Santana, or Kepler, Polanco and Rosario. I just don't see the point in adding another middle of the rotation starter, or even a #2. Get an Ace, or don't bother wasting the money. If Wheeler would cost $18 to 20 million a year, and Strasburg would cost $30 million per year, I know which one I'd prefer, if I'm serious about contending.

The more I think about it, the more I'm persuaded that the Sox should try to sign one of the two Aces. Pitching is still what wins championships. Signing one of the second tier arms just isn't going to get the Sox to a seriously competitive level. Even if they should make it into the post season, they would need 3 top tier starters. They already have a bunch of guys who have a good chance to be #2, or #3 starters. Kopech, Cease and even Lopez may very well qualify as legitimate #2, or 3 arms. Rodon can't really be considered in that mix, as he is likely to miss at least the first half of the season and then will be a free agent in 2022. They may have one Ace, if Giolito can repeat, but that is not enough. If they can sign one of the two free agent aces, they would have their #1 and 2. If one of Kopech or Cease becomes a top of the rotation level pitcher, they would have a very formidable staff. In that scenario, you could reasonably hope for the other one, of those two, to fill out the bottom of the rotation, with Lopez. And, if they should be fortunate enough to have all of them develop into number 2 level quality starters, or better, they would have a championship staff, as well as some depth. They have the money, and are really not going to have to spend much on the starting rotation, for a couple more years. Adding guys like Odorizzi, Wheeler, Bumgarner pretty much just ensures mediocrity. None of those guys are Aces, which means that you would need both Kopech and Cease to become top tier starters, in order to have your big 3, for the post season. I like the prospects of all of them to reach their potential, including Lopez, but it's pretty hard to count on that. As risky as it is to spend money on pitchers, that is probably what it will take to get this team to the level of serious contenders.

Would you want to front load the contracts, and what kind of opt out would you grant? Which teams would be the biggest competition and how much do you think that they would offer? Which of the two, would you prefer, given the contracts, which you propose?

Do you really think that he would accept offers like that? Jeff Passan is suggesting that he will be looking for a minimum of 6 years and $175 Million. If it took 6 years and $180 Million, that might be intriguing, especially if it were front loaded, with an opt out. I wonder if there are really 2 teams, willing to spend as much money on an arm, as will likely be required to sign both of the top free agent pitchers. The fact that Cole will likely get insane money, from his home state Angels, or Dodgers, might help make it feasible to get Strasburg, unless there is another team in the running, at these astronomical rates. I don't want to get my hopes up, and both may land on the West Coast. Nevertheless, it just might be a good thing that there are two elite arms, in this free agent class.

I agree. When I heard them try to argue that their suggested 8 year, $310 Million was a relatively "safe risk," I just shook my head. $37.5 Million per year, betting on a pitcher's arm, for 8 years, is far from a "safe risk". Again, listening to those clowns was a waste of time. Oh, and I should add that they were advocating a front end loaded contract, at $50 Million per year, for the first 4 years and a player opt out.

I just finished listening to last week's Podcast, on NBC Chicago Sports website, discussing whether, or not, the Sox could/should try to acquire Cole. The discussions on this board are much more intelligent than what I just heard. I don't know how those guys have that job, but it's embarrassing. "Yeah, I think the Sox should offer Cole 8 years, $310 Million. It's a pretty safe risk". Well, that's 30 minutes, I'll never get back.

I like that roster, for next year. The concern is that Moustakas will require a multiyear contract and, in 2021, with Vaughn at first and Abreu at DH, where would Moose fit? I suppose they could always try to trade him, providing the contract is reasonable. In any case, your suggestion is well thought out and would represent a significant improvement over last year's team.