Friend of Nordhagen

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) Sweeney and Gio for Theriot. Solid. I've got to get back Jacque Jones in that deal. Let's throw in Konerko.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) "our scouts noticed something on video that they think they can correct" "No one works a DVD like Dave Wilder."

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) The only way you rush this trade is if they're blowing you away with the proposal. KW's been getting offers for Buehrle for a month now, so he had a decent idea of what he migth be able to get. We should just start looking for any Red Sox minor leaguer who did good in Winter Ball. "Our scouts just love his arm. And, of course, many pitchers have made a leap working with Don Cooper."

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:35 PM) He also said Massett's fastball was a tic below Jenks'... Yeah. Power arm.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:32 PM) Who cares what he says. Also, maybe he thought the negotiations for the contract would be longer than they were. Fathom, it'd be tough for the guy to say "not today" and then make a trade today, even if the contract negotiations went faster. He wouldn't look too bright or credible. But that wouldn't stop him from concluding a trade and announcing it tomorrow.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Just remember, if something did happen today, they might wait until the Red Sox game is over today. They're in the 7th inning. Apparently, when asked earlier today if Buehrle would be moved, KW said "not today."

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 05:25 PM) But you know it will be Lowrie and some A ball reliever who throws hard. In other words . . . Grinder + Power Arm.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 21, 2007 -> 03:21 PM) Didn't Stone also say Masset would be a devastating reliever this year? You can't start if you can't throw strikes. Its amazing the criticism McCarthy got on this board when he suddenly became a relief pitcher and wasn't successful, but Masset and Sisco get nothing but the benefit of the doubt saying they should be starters. Considering Massset is 32-45 with a 4.53 ERA in his minor league career, I don't know where anyone can come to the conclusion this guy is much of anything. Stone only THINKS he knows everything.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) White Sox organizational development failure personified. Ding.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 01:10 PM) They won't. If they were going to pay MB what he was worth, they would have done it a long time ago. I for one will be intersted to see if Mark can get a nine figure contract in this market place. Yep. He's an interesting case: seemingly durable, consistent (with the exception of the 2d half last year; ouch), but not a "great arm" guy. Zito got his cash, but he's got the Cy Young and the big bender/great stuff. And there may be a few teams that shy away from Buehrle because he has logged so many innings, and see the 2d half last year as where he might end up. But I think Mark gets the money, simply because he's young, he's won, and he takes the ball. And it only takes one team to take the plunge. I only wish that team were the White Sox.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 10:52 AM) Actually you are wrong there. The price of durable mediocre starters is pretty much what we are paying Vazquez. Go look at the pitching contracts over the last couple of winters. SS2k5, I don't disagree that that's what those guys get. I'd be fine with that if I felt they would pony up for what Buehrle is worth. It's more. And I don't think they will. If I'm right, those are crazy priorities.

QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 18, 2007 -> 07:36 AM) Yeah, Vazquez takes the ball every 5th day but you hafta pray he gets past the 5th inning every start. Here are two other things you can count on Javier "He's got great stuff even though he stunk in the NL in '05" Vazquez for: 1) To carry on a losing streak 2) To stop a winning streak I'd rather watch a rookie in there than to watch this 11 mil per yr career underachiever continue to take a giant crap on the mound every 5th day. Many of you know that I've posted on Vazquez before. I have little good to say about him, so I'll pretty much leave it at that -- EXCEPT I think we need to get away from the idea that he has great stuff. Again -- if you're consistently hanging off-speed pitches -- that is, throwing pitches that don't break -- your stuff isn't great. Mediocre. And not at a mediocre cost.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 15, 2007 -> 01:56 AM) He was trying to start a fight with A.J. and Ozzie no doubt, but I mean nothing he said today lacked validity. I'm going to put in a word for North here. And I'm not talking about his work with Ozzie or AJ -- just with Cooper. I didn't hear the interview, but I've heard quite a few that North has done with Cooper before. They actually have a great, no BS rapport -- they've gone after each other, and not taken it personally, quite a few times. North is no doubt a jerk, but his stuff with Cooper is almost always entertaining -- and as a Sox fan, I generally feel that it's good therapy. Basically, North cuts to the chase -- none of that typical sportscaster "What can you guys do to improve?" stuff. And Cooper's a tough New York guy (who's been paid for this weekly appearance for 2 years, by the way), and he doesn't back down. One other point: North is many things, and many of them not good. I don't agree with his politics, and he's often a bit of lunkhead. But my long-held view -- backed even by some in the industry and not fans of his -- is that he is a very good interviewer. He gets people to be candid in a way that they generally aren't. Just my 2 cents.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:05 AM) Agree with the develop some players...but starts with DRAFT some players. BTW..."stop b****ing about the world---just deal with it?!? Didn't you just have about 5 post b****ing about Vazquez? Let's start with this: earlier in this thread, I defended Williams for not trading Crede. And no one could have assumed how bad MacDougal would be. I thought that guy was a really good addition. So I'll always give Williams credit where it's due. BUT -- In my mind, you don't deal with the inflated market for mid-level pitchers by signing one of those guys. You deal with the market by accepting that's the cost for crappy pitchers, that it will drive up the cost for pitchers who've actually proven their worth -- and then, particularly, when you have 2 of those guys already on your team who won ALCS games and pitched in the World Series for you -- you pony up and sign THEM. You don't try to trade one of them to the Astros and let the other one twist in his contract year. And, yeah, I'm putting that on Williams, not Buehrle. Lock up the guys who are young and your core. All that time Williams b****es and moans about how hard it was to trade Rowand -- and how much he'd love to have him back -- and he's got another "grinder" guy like that in Buehrle -- then sign the man. Don't put your money into the guy with the lifetime record under .500, all the while complaining about this gosh darn crazy pitching market and then letting go a left-handed starter who won 100 games about 40 games earlier than Mr. Nibbles.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) vazquez hasnt given up 6 runs all year and has only given up 6 once in the second half of last year and through the first two and a half months this year....thats almost a full year of pitching....no, vazquez isnt roy halladay and won't have a 2.9 ERA, but he has kept us in ballgames for a year now with an ERA in the low 4s, and for a guy who pitches 200 innings in doing so is actually pretty valuable to a team....ask the As seriously...put the blame where its due...javy had a QS tonight Look, it's not his fault about tonight. That said, I don't really think that 6 runs should be the litmus test for starters. I mean, our bullpen, yeah, but our starters? Anyway, he's prone to good months and bad months. I'm fairly confident that he'll put up some truly lousy ones before the year's over because, well, he's done that for about 6 years now. But, in any event, I'm pretty sure he could HIT better than most of our guys. That seems true. Alright, I'm done with him for tonight.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) Just to remind everyone of our position in the standings, we're currently 9 games out of the division lead and 8 out of the wild card lead with eight teams to jump. I like our chances. Especially when we get Aardsma back up here.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:04 PM) Well done!! *applauds* Thank you, sir. Can you tell that I'm angry? Yeah. Kinda.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:57 PM) I really can't believe anyone would rip Vazquez tonight. If the guy throws a shutout, the Sox are still tied. This is all on the offense. If anyone even cares anymore, that is. That's me. I'm ripping him. I'm not blaming him for tonight. But I am ripping him. Because 3 times a game, he leaves it up, and he gets rocked. If no one's on base, it's 3 runs. If Mr. Nibbles happens to put a couple of guys on beforehand, it's 5 or 6 runs. I'm tired of it. That guy symbolizes every mistake Kenny Williams has made -- his total fixation on guys, regardless of their abilities and track record; his belief that he's smarter than everyone else about "the market;" and his conviction that the organization he built can "fix" guys. Jesus, man, how about this: develop some players, reward the guys who have done something for the team (not those you think MIGHT), and stop b****ing about the world as it is -- just deal with it.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) There is no comparison between the 2. Buehrle was a good pitcher coming off a career bad year, Crede is a bad hitter coming off a career good year, with back problems, and our top prospect behind him, plus a crazy agent. Maybe. But until Josh Fields can hit a fastball, I'm not sure he's much of a prospect.

QUOTE(Wanne @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:20 PM) Puhlease...blame Vazquez!....brilliant. Vazquez is FAR from the problem with this team. Kenny should be officially on notice. How he's handled everything from the minor league system, the outfield, Crede...he's actually making Jerry Krause look not too shabby. Good job reading the first line of my post. I didn't blame the game on Javier Floyd Bannister Vazquez. But by the way, if you're questioning moves by Kenny Williams, I think that trading your best outfield prospect for a mediocrity, then being at least 2 outfielders short the VERY NEXT year, is a problem. Then Williams pays the guy $11 million -- all the while complaining that he can't afford another outfielder, or bullpen help, or Mark Buehrle, and then tries to trade Jon Garland -- all because life is getting too expensive! Really? Then don't pay Javy 11 million dollars! Maybe you're right. It's not Javy's fault that he's mediocre. It's Kenny's fault that Javy's mediocre -- and here.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) Another mistake by KW last offseason. Once he declined the surgery, he should have been traded. KW had to know he'd never sign him to a big deal with his lingering back issue. Here's a rarity for me lately: I'm going to defend Kenny Williams. I have no idea what, if anything, he was offered for Crede. But, as a general idea, I was in favor of holding onto Joe. He's one of those core guys -- gritty, very good defender, outstanding in the clutch, and seemingly key to the makeup of this team when it's been at its best. Just a hunch, but I think that he was worth more to us than what we could've gotten in trade, especially because his back condition -- not the extent of it but certainly the possibility of how bad it could be -- was pretty well known. I feel the same way about Buehrle, by the way. He's a White Sox.

QUOTE(S(Pride)X @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:07 PM) He said that if he leans to the left he pitches to the first base side and if he stands straight it goes to the 3rd base side. Not going to lay this anywhere but the offense, BUT -- When I turned on the game in the 6th, it was 2-0 and the Phils were up. There was one out. I flipped over to the Sopranos, confident that Vazquez would give up another run in THAT INNING. Because he's about a 4.5 ERA guy, with no brains, and no heart. (And $11 million per year.) He can't possibly pitch 6 innings and not give up 3 runs. Can't do it. Sure enough, after watching Paulie Walnuts get promoted to head of the Cifaretto crew, I turned back to see that Javier had given up his magical 3rd run in 6 innings or less. Like death and taxes and, oh, mediocrity: ladies and gentlemen, our pal, Javier Vazquez!

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 01:21 PM) My question on Fields is the same one I had last year: can he hit a major-league fastball? He seems to have trouble with good velocity. That's a little strange for a top-level prospect. It's usually dealing with the off-speed stuff that you wonder about. Bump. He struck out 3 times today. One was on an 89 MPH fastball from Wandy Rodriguez. Did anyone see the others?

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) Well, the GM said Fields would have an immediate impact and will be an all-star someday. Which grossly overrates a prospect who strikes out more than Brian Anderson and will be lucky to hit .200 against major league pitching. The criticism should really be directed at KW who is responsible for a junkyard minor league system devoid of a single real positional prospect. My question on Fields is the same one I had last year: can he hit a major-league fastball? He seems to have trouble with good velocity. That's a little strange for a top-level prospect. It's usually dealing with the off-speed stuff that you wonder about.

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 10:12 AM) I'll agree to the extent that Crede looks like he'll end up as a sub-.200 hitter pretty soon. But Fields posting a decent OBP in Charlotte is way different than doing it against major league pitching. He's striking out at 30% rate against minor league pitchers. That rate will go up in the bigs, and he'd have to post an incredible BABIP to make up for it. If he keeps walking that will obviously help, but who knows if he can sustain that walk rate in the bigs. It's not like he has a long history as a high-OBP player.In any case, I agree the Sox should call him up and see what he can do. I'm just saying no one should expect success. From watching him last September and in spring training this year, Fields has a problem with good fastballs. That's a little disturbing; the usual problem with young hitters is the off-speed stuff. Can he get "quicker" with his swing?