scenario

Think about it... he's going to get beat out for a starting position by 37-year old Jon Leiber and he's unwilling to pitch out of the pen. Not sure picking him up does anything for us except add to payroll.

Oakland beat San Francisco 23-5 today. Desperation to add a little punch to the Giants lineup could be taking shape soon. I say we offer them both Crede and Uribe (since Omar is injured and out 4-6 weeks). Give Aaron some company.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 05:18 PM) How did Gavin do? The Arizona radio announcers made very positive comments about his pitches - location, movement, etc. He only walked one guy in three innings. And he wasn't falling behind batters. So, not too bad. Not well enough to get people over being nervous about him, but that will take a stellar year to overcome. I was impressed at how he got out of 2 on (BB, HBP) - no out jam in the second without damage. That was the type of situation where he would have pressed and gone belly up in the past.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 05:07 PM) Oh, I didn't realize affirmative action now also means that each team must carry a pitcher on their roster that absolutely sucks. That's great. Since we have a few extra, let's send Sisco to Detroit and Day to Cleveland to help them fill their quotas. It's only fair that we should share.

QUOTE(Pants Rowland @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 04:58 PM) Beat me to it. Had me scared. But it's Oneli Perez.

Sisco working hard to let the DBacks back into the game.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 04:29 PM) CLE and DET battle to a tie. A hint of things to come in the division. As long as they tie for 2nd in the division, I'm fine with that.

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Mar 1, 2008 -> 02:39 PM) Is this on the radio anywhere? Just mlb gameday audio, I think. Edit: Deja vu.

This note from whitesox.com at 1pm... Also this morning, Jerry Owens was scratched from Wednesday's lineup. The fleet-footed leadoff man continues to be plagued by a sore right groin.

QUOTE(Controlled Chaos @ Feb 27, 2008 -> 10:12 AM) Remember watching baseball 20 years ago, for the pure enjoyment, etc... Well done. Very interesting... My favorite line was... "With the maturity of the Internet we were given the access to make watching baseball more of a job, and damn us if we all took the bait." So true.

Not getting to camp on time is absolutely inexcusable for a young player trying to make a club. Doesn't he have an agent? You'd think an agent working on a player's behalf would help make sure stuff like this didn't happen.

Sounds to me like a non-issue that was purposefully taken out of context to create a story.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Feb 6, 2008 -> 09:27 AM) whenever I think of Hawk talking about anything that he is repetitive about, I think of SSI71's post about Hawk being a robot Nah... an alien. I'd like to see him do a cameo in the next 'Men In Black' sequel. That would explain alot, wouldn't it?

Sorry. Didn't see it. With so much content on the site, sometimes it's hard to go through everything before posting.

Too much, too soon: Seven young pitchers who could be injury risks in '08 Article linked above is summarized below... The unofficial industry standard is that no young pitcher should throw more than 30 more innings than he did the previous season. It's a general rule of thumb, and one I've been tracking for about a decade. When teams violate the incremental safeguard, it's amazing how often they pay for it. In 2005 and '06 I found 17 pitchers I defined as at-risk of the Year-After-Effect. None made it through the next year without an injury or a higher ERA. Ten of them broke down, the most seriously hurt being Francisco Liriano, Gustavo Chacin, Adam Loewen, Scott Mathieson and Anibel Sanchez. Eleven of them had worse ERAs, by an average of about a run and a half. Remember, it's a general rule; there are exceptions, the superlative Justin Verlander being one. Here they are, the seven young pitchers most at risk for injury or a significantly higher ERA in 2008, ranked according to greatest innings increase: 1. Ian Kennedy, Yankees, 23 (+61 IP) 2. Fausto Carmona, Indians, 23 (+56.1) 3. Ubaldo Jimenez, Rockies, 24 (+41 2/3) 4. Tom Gorzelanny, Pirates, 25 (+40 1/3) 5. Dustin McGowan, Blue Jays, 25 (+38 2/3) 6. Chad Gaudin, Athletics, 24 (+36) 7. Yovani Gallardo, Brewers, 21 (+33)

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 3, 2008 -> 10:30 PM) I've looked, and I'm with Wite. Who are these players? Pitching CC - best year of his career. Career low ERA. Career low walks. Career high strikeouts. In 7 full seasons, he's only had 3 years with an ERA under 4.00. This year, 3.21 and wins the Cy Young. Pretty much the definition of a career year. So now, he's supposed to keep pitching in the low 3's every year? Reminds me of what people thought about Buehrle after 2005. Carmona - far and away the best year he's had at any level. Had a 4.00+ ERA in AA. Had a 4.00+ ERA in AAA. Had a 5.00+ ERA in both AAA and MLB in '06. Wasn't even projected to be in the rotation in '07. But when their 4th and 5th starters sucked (both with 6.00+ ERA) this year and got demoted, they were forced to put him in. And then almost pulls off the Cy Young? Puhhleease... That's like finding a winning lotto ticket on the street. Let's see what he looks like this year. He pitched around 100 innings (between majors and minors) in 2006 and 215 innings in 2007. Should be interesting to see how he (and the league) adapts to his second full year. According to Tom Verducci's 'Year-After-Effect', Carmona is due for an injury or a signficant bump in ERA in 2008. Rafael Betancourt - Had a 3.81 ERA in 2006 (not bad) and a 1.47 ERA in 2007. That's approximately one-half of his career average ERA (2.80). But... that is supposed to happen again this year, right? Rafael Perez - no years in minor close. Had a 3.66 in AAA when he got promoted and had a 1.78 at the major league level this year?? Jensen Lewis - had over a 3.00 ERA in college; a 3.90 ERA in A-ball/AA last year. And this year he steps up and has a 2.15 ERA in the majors?? Aaron Fultz - 2nd best year of his career at age 34. Has had only two years in MLB with an ERA under 4.50. And he had a 2.92 ERA this year? That group made up half of their starter innings and almost 70% of their relief innings. Does anyone believe that these were NORMAL years that will be repeated???? Offensively Vic Martinez had the best year of his career. 30 points above his career average OPS. 23 points over his previous career high. Had career highs in hits, doubles, homeruns, and RBI's. He lead the Tribe in homeruns. Could he meet or exceed those numbers again? Maybe. But that doesn't change the fact that this was his best year in a 6-year MLB career. And he turns 30 in 2008. Jhonny Peralta: not his best year offensively with .771 OPS, but definitely his second best. Let's see which Jhonny shows up this year. In '06, he had a .708 OPS and his pathetic defense almost got him bumped from the lineup. Casey Blake: he's older than Jermaine Dye and just had the 3rd best year of his career with a .777 OPS... only the 3rd year of his career with an OPS over .750.... and he'll be 35 in August. So... expect repeat performance... or age-related decrease? Grady Sizemore had better power numbers in '06, but had his second best OPS this year. And his OBP of .390 was 21 points higher than his career average and 15 points better than his previous career high. Gutierrez, Garko, and Asdrubal Cabrera... they had nice years, although it's hard to say whether their productivity was above or below average because they don't have enough time in MLB yet to draw a baseline. But consider this... in terms of minor league numbers: Ryan Sweeney > Franklin Gutierrez; Danny Richar > Asdrubal Cabrera; Josh Fields >> Ryan Garko. So make your own decision about what to expect. So, bottom line: - Their pitching FAR exceeded expectations based on the history of the players, particularly the bullpen. - Several key players had very good years offensively that have to be categorized among their best years. - Several young players contributed at levels above expectations which could easily drop next year. (For example: Why should their young guys, who were inferior hitters in the minors to our young guys, be projected to do better? They shouldn't if someone is looking at it objectively.)

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 3, 2008 -> 10:14 PM) Name the players who had career years. Carmona came out of nowhere, but I really don't think they had that many players play over their head. I went through the 2007 and career stats of every player on their team before I posted. Look 'em up and you'll see.

Why is Cleveland "the team to beat"? Because they had a great year in '07? They had ALOT of things go right for them this year. For example: How many of their players had career best years... or played waaaay above their career averages? Pretty much everyone offensively except Hafner... and their entire bullpen... and two of their starters. I think they're in for a BIG letdown if they're expecting repeat career best performances from almost everyone on the team.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 1, 2008 -> 01:57 PM) Chris Young ranked #5. ??? Help me out here. He's not in the top 10 on the list above. Is there additional information inside the article or are you quoting another list? And how is he going to rank 5th on any list with a .237 BA, a .295 OBP, and a .763 OPS?

How did Anderson rate defensively at year end? I've never seen the figures on that.

Anybody with ESPN Insider access to see what he said about Swisher?

And he had this comment about Grady Sizemore which I found interesting... "And finally we come to Sizemore, and the most controversial thing I'm going to write today ... Sizemore is not a good center fielder. Am I sure about that? No. But I've got two systems in front of me -- BP's Fielding Runs and Dewan's +/- -- and both suggest that Sizemore's average with the glove. At best. Yes, they could be wrong. But these days the metrics have become sophisticated enough that if they come to a consensus about a player and you disagree, you have to figure out why they're wrong (it used to be the other way around). Last summer I wrote something about the Granderson-Sizemore comparison, and I came down (just barely) for Sizemore because he's 17 months younger. But his defense now gives me pause. While I think they'll be roughly the same hitter in 2008, I also think Granderson will play Gold Glove-caliber defense and Sizemore won't. If the Indians had a good center fielder in the minors, I might even predict that Sizemore will find a new position in a few years."

Link Ranking the best center fielders (excerpt from the article below) "Before I present the list of candidates for Best Center Fielder of the Next 5 Years, I'll tell you this: there are only three serious candidates for the No. 1 spot. Maybe four. See if you can spot them ... Player Name Age OBP SLG OPS+ WARP Curtis Granderson 27 .361 .552 136 10.4 B.J. Upton 23 .386 .508 136 5.7 Josh Hamilton 27 .368 .554 131 3.3 Hunter Pence 25 .360 .539 130 6.2 Nick Swisher 27 .381 .455 127 5.6 Carlos Beltran 31 .353 .525 126 8.4 Aaron Rowand 30 .374 .515 123 7.8 Torii Hunter 32 .334 .505 122 5.5 Ichiro Suzuki 34 .396 .431 122 8.7 Grady Sizemore 25 .390 .462 122 6.3 Those are the top 10 center fielders of 2007, OPS+-wise (and it's a long drop from Sizemore to No. 11 Marlon Byrd). Looking at a list of players with at least 50 games in center field last season, I see three others who should be considered, if only because of their youth: Arizona's Chris Young, New York's Melky Cabrera and Chicago's Felix Pie. One might also argue for Vernon Wells, who certainly is paid like a top-10 guy and should bounce back this year from his shoulder injury."

So... the Sox would have had 2 on the list if we hadn't traded away DLS. Compare that to the rest of the teams in our division: The Twins would have only had 1 on the list (but picked up 2 in the Santana trade) The Indians only have 2 The Tigers have 1. (would have had 2 if they hadn't traded away Maybin) The Royals have 1. Hard to make an argument that there's a huge difference in top minor league talent between these teams, isn't it? On the other hand, Tampa has NINE players on the list, including 4 pitchers (2 of those pitchers are in the top 20). That's fairly impressive.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jan 31, 2008 -> 04:19 PM) Scenario...that is an interesting moniker. are you a moderator on another White Sox message board? Thanks. Yes. I'm an admin on the Sox scout.com site.