Dick Allen

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:32 PM) Please clarify your position for me. My take is that there was an organizational failure on this play. 1) The Sox broadcast didn't have the best angle of the tag. Why didn't they? 2) The Tigers broadcast had that angle. Did the Sox video crew have access to the Tigers feed and, if so, why weren't they looking at all possible angles to put Robin in the best position to succeed? 3) Even in light of the above, given score and situation, Robin still should have challenged because runner on 2nd with nobody out in a tie game in the bottom of the 9th merits making the umps take a look. Even if you are taking Robin's statement at face value, and the video crew told Robin Alexi definitively missed the tag, and Robin is excused from challenging the call, there is still a failure by the organization because the information relayed to Robin was wrong. Objectively, the White Sox had bad information that potentially cost them the game. My take, reading your arguments in this thread, is that you are arguing there wasn't anything the Sox could do. Is that a correct reading of your take on the play? My take is taking this out in Robin is wrong. He did what any of us would have done without access to replay, which he had none, and the information he received. As to the Tigers feed and all of that, I don't know if the White Sox have access to all of their angles, and as I posted if it is anything like the NBA, NY might not have the angle. I do believe both teams should have access to the same angle that would be used to determine challenges. I don't know if they do, and I don't think anyone here knows either. Ther are a lot of assumptions, but the fact is Robin has to rely on the replay people and they told him the tag was missed.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 04:21 PM) Again, CSN did not show the best feed. Alexei absolutely made that tag. He feels the guy's foot hit his glove and then pulls the ball back to avoid hitting the guy's body, which is actually what you're supposed to do because once you've tagged him you don't want to tag the guy again and wind up dropping the ball while making an unnecessary tag. I think he could have made a far more decisive tag. The last video shows he tagged him, but barely.He just stuck his glove in front of the bag. I love Alexei, but he has some phobias around second base. It took a couple of managers and a lot of pleading to get him to take throws on steal attempts anywhere near 2B.

QUOTE (illinilaw08 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:29 PM) Right. But the Tigers clearly had a better replay of the tag. So: 1) Why didn't the Sox have that replay? 2) Why wasn't the Sox video crew monitoring the Tigers broadcast feed to see all possible angles? 3) Given the situation, score, and Alexi's reaction, why didn't Robin challenge anyway? I can't understand throwing up your hands and saying, "well, what could we do?" You would think the video guys have the same angles as NY. I don't know if it is uniform. If I had a vote, it would be. As for the situation, if you didn't have access to a replay, but the guys you pay to watch them tell you it was a "clear safe" I doubt you challenge. You may need to later. I do know if he was told clear safe and he challenged anyway and was denied, if the Sox got out of the jam but later got beat on a bad call he couldn't challenge, he would get roasted. What is the purpose of a video crew? As for Alexei, he jumps up and down saying he is safe at first when he is out by almost a full step. I would take the replay guys take. Maybe they had bad angles, but as I said, I think bith teams should have access to the same views that would be used to decide a challenge. I was watching a Bulls game a couple of weeks ago where they reviewed a ball out of bounds. I clearly was off the opponent from what appeared to be the best angle was the opponent was awarded the ball. They said the replay guys didn't have access to that angle, so it is possible the Sox video guys were looking at the same views NY would have had.

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:26 PM) Only Dick Allen would take the side of it being acceptable for major league officials in charge of utilizing the league's instant review system to not have the full available information to make a call. When did I write that? We don't know what replays any team has access to. The anger should be toward the video crew whose decision to challenge or not it is. Not Ventura who doesn't have a TV in the dugout.,

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:21 PM) And it's acceptable for fans to have access to these angles, but not the staff??? You would have to ask the White Sox what replays their people look at. I don't know. There were a few people on here looking at the CSN replays who first said the tag was not made.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:16 PM) Then I assume you support their firing right? They could easily have just cost this team a chance at the playoffs. If they had these videos, yes I would support a change. If they had only videos where even Hawk says he missed him, a firing wouldn't be fair.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:12 PM) Yet your SS is jumping up and down screaming NO NO NO! Never saw him talk to Alexei. Alexei has been pretty adament before when calls have been reviewed and not reversed. I'd go with the guys watching the replay.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:11 PM) yeah but what if after this mess up, and the next mess up, they mess up again?? literally we should never challenge, because we may always need it in the future! What don't you understand about the White Sox video team. Robin doesn't watch replays. The guys who do , who advise him to challenge or not specifically told him the tag was not made. What's the purpose of a video team if you aren't going to listen to them? It looks like they messed up. Maybe they didn't practice enough replays in spring training. But blaming Robin for not challenging when his crew told him not to is pretty weak.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:05 PM) That is just laughable. Like everyone has said, you literally have nothing to lose if you challenge that play. It is all or nothing in the bottom of the 9th anyways You do have something to lose if the game isn't over yet. What if they denied the challenge and made a bad call later? But if the guys you pay to watch the replay say he missed the tag, it's kind of hard to blame someone for not challenging.

QUOTE (Sockin @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) Colleen Kane ‏@ChiTribKane Robin Ventura says call from White Sox video crew was that Ramirez did not make the tag, so he went without challenging. That's really going to dissappoint a lot of people.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:58 PM) Inconclusive? Did the runners foot just move because the air got thicker around 2nd base?? His foot moved because he was pulling it back to avoid a tag. That angle isn't the best.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:57 PM) ? The guy sliding was pulling up both with his slide and his foot. The angle on the youtube isn't really a great angle. The glove could be 6 inches from the foot. An overhead view would be best. If Hawk thinks he missed him, the challenge would be a longshot. Still, I don't understand why they wouldn't.

QUOTE (Sockin @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:52 PM) Yep, that shows it. Unbelievable. It looks like he got him on the toe there, but it really is inconclusive. I wonder why they wouldn't challenge. It is done differently this year, but generally it isn't Robin's decision to challenge. Did Alexei put up much of an argument?

I think in his first professional game, Brant had a golden sombrero. I know many of us, me included, get a kick out of him being bad, but he's a sure of a bet as there is to be a dominant offensive player.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:09 PM) We really need Sanchez on this team. He's hitting well, but already has 3 errors. Of course, Leury Garcia already has 5 multiple hit games, so offensive numbers in AAA could be a little misleading.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:05 PM) I know, right? He should have 18K's through 6...this Shark stat line sucks. I think you aren't being reasonable. Maybe 14ks and one hit.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 02:02 PM) Through 6 for Samardjiza 1ER 7H 0BB 5K Just awful.

Counting on Abreu is dumb. He is obviously going to be awful. He got lucky and hit 2 homers the first 8 games, and is now barely hitting .200. These 9 games tell you all you need to know about the 2015 White Sox. Time to move on to football.

I don't know if celebrity is the proper term, but Cardinal Francis George died today after a long battle with cancer. RIP

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) But it's not. And he's facing David Price, a guy who is going to make $25 million a year, and if White Sox hitters don't get hits, they need to be moved down in the line up. White Sox fans are the biggest whiners in baseball. They whine when they are winning.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 01:27 PM) Have you watched the game? Not being sarcastic, want to know if you see the meatballs he's throwing up there today. It's 1-1. If they are outs, who cares? He isn't going to be sharp every outing.

Sox get 1 run in 4 innings. Offense sucks. Tigers get 1 run in 4 innings. Samardjiza sucks.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 12:41 PM) I don't know, outside of a few hanging sliders, Shark has looked sharp since 2nd inning Saturday. That's why I mentioned his warm up routine, at least on Saturday. Seems a lot of sitting around before he actually pitched, maybe a cause of the slow starts.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) Peavy was loud Nolan Ryan grunted. A lot of guys do, but when you hear it on the telecast, it's a little distracting.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 17, 2015 -> 12:34 PM) Beckham is getting way too many damn PA. 11 PA. Reached base 5 times. Yeah, that sucks. Why isn't Gillaspie facing price? Oh yeah, f*** you Robin.