Dick Allen

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 08:21 PM) Robin's awful. On the flip side, Hahn can't be watching this constant stupidity and thinking it's a good idea to keep him around when the team is ready to contend. YOu can't have your manager actively losing you games, and Robin is that bad right now. Furthermore, he doesn't seem to be learning. This is his 3rd damn year, no more excuses. How is Robin actively losing this game?

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 08:15 PM) What sort of message does it send to the team when a guy like Beckham comes up and immediately starts the first two games, including after an 0-4 3k performance? It's a s*** message. God, why are we "showcasing" a guy the entire league knows sucks? Gillaspie cannot play. He is basically playing for Leury, and he has to get time.

5th walk for the Sox pitching staff. It is ridiculous.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 08:04 PM) Shows just how desperate the Sox are. It is dire. No one is giving up competent bullpen guys, and the Sox need several. Hahn's only choice is to buy as many lottery tickets as he can and hope one or two of them somehow beat the odds and pan out.

The good news is the game isn't out of hand. The bad news is at least 7 1/3 innings of White Sox bullpen. The over looks like a lock tonight.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 07:59 PM) If it makes you feel better, the great Matt Davidson is 0-3 with a strikeout and hitting .167. He is a stud. 6 years of control baby. When a team is so desperate for power they trade a couple good players for Trumbo, you have to figure they didn't think Davidson was really close.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 07:53 PM) Cooper's doing just a wonderful job with the pitchers this year....ugh It always amazes me, if the offense is bad, or the defense is bad, it is the coaching. If the pitching is bad, they just suck. Johnson was supposed to be a stud. Why isn't anyone saying the pitching coach has failed him?

The batter after Cooper comes out to the mound has MVP numbers the past couple of years.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 07:35 PM) Some of these shifts piss me off. You can't do it to the best hitters that can hit anywhere. Stop trying to be cute with the shifts If you take extra bases out of the equation with Longoria, it is fine.

Are CS percentages higher these days than 4 or 5 years ago? It seems to me whether it is the White Sox or other games I watch, runners seem to be getting gunned down far more often.

There are actually a lot more people there than I would have thought.

And the mandatory walk.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:32 PM) Did Leo Mazzone actually want to find a job after Baltimore? IIRC he only went there because a friend of his was managing. Just to point out... Oh yes. This is a couple years old. He also lobbied for the Phillies job this past winter http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...es&c_id=mlb

One thing a lot of people don't realize is Dayan Viciedo is actually a year younger than Adam Eaton.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) But Foulke was borderline "established" as a fifth starter with the Giants, not as a reliever. Crede, with the back issues, there's no way of knowing what he would have gone on to do after Chicago. We can all see the inconsistency due to health out of Quentin, as well. The difference is all those pitchers were noted FAILURES (except for Danks, who hadn't really had a full opportunity in Texas). Contreras in NY, Floyd in Philly. Jenks nearly out of the game of baseball and out of control in the Angels' organization. Santos a former 1st rounder who was almost out of the game as a SS. Peavy was pitching with 3-5 mph off his peak 2007 Cy Young velocity. Disasters right and left with most of the pitchers. JD broke his leg, but he had some super solid years with the Braves and Royals. Don Cooper took over as the White Sox pitching coach in 2002. You may want to check Keith Foulke 1999-2001.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:10 PM) Repeat something enough times and it just bound to become truth. Getting past the weird Cooper obsession, Don Cooper has a reputation as one of the best pitching coaches in all of baseball. Period. This isn't a Soxtalk thing like you want to make it into. Who Soxtalk would have picked to be in the rotation in 2005, or whatever other non sequitur you want to throw at the wall is irrelevant. I think he's a good pitching coach. I've said that several times. He's just not the pitching god people make him out to be. No one is. Leo Mazzone was a genius in Atlanta. He went to Baltimore, got some bad pitchers got fired and then couldn't get hired. Offensively, Rudy Jaramillo was a genius. I remember the guy saying Walker was "lift and pull" (which couldn't have been more wrong), thinking Jaramillo was such a hitting genius, the Sox needed to hire his "assistant". Little did he know, that Jaramillo's philosophy is pretty close to "lift and pull". Everyone here has to realize Don Cooper is not looked at the same way all the other coaches are looked at. If the Sox botch a rundown its on Ventura or the infield coach. If they don't hit, the hitting coach sucks. If the pitchers screw up, then and only then is it on the player. unless it is on Ventura for using them incorrectly. You know as well as I, Cooper makes most, if not all of the pitching decisions. For some who don't agree with all the decisions, knowing that is like discovering Santa Claus isn't real. I just try to put Coop in the same light everyone else puts the rest of the coaching staff.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) Walker started with the White Sox in 2003. It's also about expectations. Thomas, Ordonez, Lee, Konerko and Thome were all established major league players, some HOF or All-Stars...even Jermaine Dye. So Rowand and Crede, sure (but then you have the noted failures of Borchard, Brian Anderson, Josh Fields, Gordon Beckham and many others to go along with that...Alex Rios pre-2012, Adam Dunn's 2011 mystifying fall off, Nick Swisher's anomalous 2008 season). And you can give Walker Carlos Quentin of 2008. Or you can say that he was simply healthy for one good chunk of a season and was provided the opportunity to play full-time. And AJ Pierzynski was always a top hitting catcher, for example. But from that list of pitchers, they have some big-time pedigrees, but most of them came to the White Sox as reclamation projects, with Contreras being the quintessential example of all. Talent, but lack of results with previous teams for a plethora of reasons. Javy always gets thrown out as a Cooper failure, but no pitching coach every really had consistent success with him, despite his success. Trading away Daniel Hudson and Brandon McCarthy and Gio gets blamed on him too, for some reason. Or Ventura's bullpen mismanagement. What was Dye's 2004 season like? How about Thome's 2005? What was Paulie doing the firs half of 2003 before Walker was hired? These guys fit the same critieria as most of your list. Contreras was the most highly acclaimed Cuban pitcher. Danks was a #1 pick the Sox traded their top prospect for. Gavin Floyd was a top 5 pick. Bobby Jenks was a top prospect and seemed to get it together in the minors. He hit the ground running with the Sox. Peavy was a Cy Young award winner. Keith Foulke and Buerhle were well established before Cooper became the pitching coach. How many of Coop will fix 'em's success stories were sustained?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:55 PM) I see your point, but that's not a good example because of those, only Crede wasn't already really good or a top prospect. No reclamation projects there. But a lot of the list for Cooper wasn't really reclamation except the names I mentioned. Dye and Thome and Konerko were reclimations as much as most of the Cooper list. Cooper doesn't get scrutinized for guys failing nearly as much as the Sox hitting coaches or manager have. That's just a fact. If Darin Erstad is horrible and Andy Gonzalez doesn't hack it in the 3 spot, Walker was an idiot. If the Sox botch a rundown, Ventura hasn't shown them the proper way. If the bullpen walks 5 out of 6 batters, the pitchers just suck. Several guys weren't so good with the White Sox but had pitching success later elsewhere. Other than Nick Swisher, I don't think there is any White Sox who had far more success offensively after sucking it up with the White Sox. Of course, many of the White Sox hitters were veterans who were either done or nearing the end of the line, but no one was able to "fix" the other guys.

QUOTE (flavum @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) Noesi is out of options, so what's the deal here? Is he in the pen tonight or are they trying to pull a Javy Guerra and get him through waivers themselves? They would probably send down Putnam. They may get a day or so to make something happen because I doubt he was in the area when claimed.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) I don't think we spend comparatively to other teams on pitching at all and that makes Cooper a success. Now perhaps, but back in the day the Sox were paying around 8 figures for a #5 starter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:37 PM) Don Cooper kicked your dog. Admit it. Frank Thomas, Magglio Ordonez, Carlos Lee, Aaron Rowand, Jermaine Dye, Paul Konerko, Jim Thome, Joe Crede...... Just some names Greg Walker coached. According to most here, he was turrible.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 02:27 PM) Right there shows a big problem right now...no names from the past two years. And many of those names how do you give Cooper all the success? Even Contreras, who during 2005 Soxtalk wanted gone for AJ Burnett. There was a story that El Duque told Contreras he needed to attack hitters like he did in Cuba, and that is what got him going. The Coop will fix 'em is something that really is overblown. He did "fix" Thornton. It was done in one side session. You definitely have to give him a lot of credit for Loaisa, but that didn't last long. Floyd was a top 5 pick and pretty frustrating most of his White Sox career. Maybe he did something with Quintana. But other than that, there is nothing earthshattering here. I'm sure he's a good pitching coach, but some think he walks on water and does no wrong. The White Sox spent a lot more money per player on pitching than on offense during the past decade. The guys they didn't pay were just as bad as the guys that aren't paid on other teams.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 25, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) Edwin Jackson with the White Sox - 30 GS, 196.2 IP, 3.66 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 8 K/9, 2.6 BB/9 He was really good with the Sox. He also was good with the Tigers, but he was a lot better with the Sox than most realize.

He's trash, but so are Francisco, Guerra, Boggs, Hanson. Maybe they will get lucky but it is obvious they are desperate for someone. Anyone.

With the Hawks and Bulls both playing tonight, what is the over/under on actual attendance? I'm saying 1500.