Dick Allen

Bonds, Biggio, Raines, Smith also Trammell.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 01:39 PM) There's no rebuilding going on. Why should fans be excited about bringing last years team back? Why should fans freak out about the roster 3 months before the season starts?

QUOTE (bhawk99 @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 01:36 PM) I just saw Hahn's picture on the side of a milk carton. Is there an Amber alert out for him? As a die hard life long Sox fan I hate to say this but as of right now we just are not good enough to beat Detroit. Say what you want about Kenny but at least he made the off seasons interesting. Was a castation included in Hahn's promotion? Grow a set Rick and make a move. Let us know you still are alive. KW's big move in his first offseason as a GM was acquiring Boomer Wells. The transaction took place on January 14th. Hahn has already signed a top of the line FA and a middle of the road FA.

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 11:39 AM) On being a nominee for the NBA Hall of Fame JR is the best owner ever He was smart enough to buy the Bulls no money down with Michael Jordan on the roster. That alone should make him a HOFer.

QUOTE (balfanman @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 11:13 AM) In reality, I'm just trying to kill time on a slow day at work and nothing happening with the Sox. I noticed this quote from our friend PTATC in the NFL thread talking about RGIII injury. Interestingly enough the first real high profile athlete this was done with was Ozzie Guillen after he had that collision with Tim Raines. Up until that point it was common place to do the surgery as soon as possible. It was the case that brought the idea to mainstream sports medicine. Just got me to thinking, could the reason Tim Raines left the orginization be due to Guillen still holding a grudge on this? Anybody know for sure? Ozzie was the one who brought Raines in to coach. That was interesting that he was the model. Ozzie was never the same after his injury.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 7, 2013 -> 09:04 AM) Winning 85 games and being in the race until the end has its value too. It's obviously not preferred, but it's a hell of a lot better than a 67 win team. That is what people don't understand. If the Sox tanked the next 3 or 4 years, sure their draft picks would be higher, but if they developed players, a big if, attendance would be down, advertising would be down, they wouldn't be able to retain the guys who are successful and the cycle continues again. They don't have the gimmick of a new park and an old one shutting down to spur attendance. I know some people here say they would surely go to more games if the Sox went into a total rebuild. Of course they are the same people that write off young players after a bad week.

QUOTE (RadioHost @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 12:52 PM) How do you know this? Do you have sources within the baseball? Sorry this is my first post in years. I do have a friend of a friend where I get infrequent info but he was asked if the Sox roster is pretty much set for spring training and was told not a chance. It is not earth shattering news and a huge scoop. It's more bernsteinesque, but we shouldn't be arguing current roster because that is going to change in the next few weeks. And I have no idea what names are on their way out or what is coming in.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 5, 2013 -> 12:47 PM) What about the Verducci effect on Sale that Ginger Kid brought up? Studies have shown the Verducci effect to be a myth.

Trades are going to happen pretty soon. They will not be going to spring training as currently constructed.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 02:18 PM) The winning percentage is far enough apart. So there is that George 1 playoff victory in 10 seasons, Cutler 1 playoff victory in 7 with a new coach and new OC coming. As for his passer rating, he's never been in the top 10 in any season. 20th this year, 16th last year, 11th in 2010, 21st in 2009, 16th in 2008 and 12th in 2007. There's enough there to say he's been average. He may be at a little lower end, but George's career, when you take everything into consideration, probably is considered average.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) So, a mixed bag then? Not all Bears fans making excuses for Cutler, but at least a "mixed bag's" worth of Bears fans making asinine attacks on Cutler for tearing his MCL but being too weak/a p****/not tough etc. to play through the pain? Because earlier you seemed to be implying that a good majority of Bears fans are always making excuses for Cutler and never criticizing him. A good majority of Bears fans make excuses for him, and still think he's a franchise QB. He isn't one yet. You can't dig up one thread on Soxtalk and say that is the majority opinion for Cutler's 4 years in Chicago. When he was acquired, people thought he was the Messiah. When some said back then he was Jeff George, people said no way. So far, he's been Jeff George.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:31 PM) can you resurrect the appropriate NFL thread? he was getting ripped plenty on this board for it. edit: here, dick, go read pages and pages of pointless arguments over this: http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...0460&st=960 certainly a mixed bag there. Nowhere near all of Chicago.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:22 PM) It wasn't one guy. It was pretty much all of Chicago. Yeah, all of Chicago was following him down the street seeing how he was walking.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:15 PM) Yeah, calling the guy a wimp for tearing knee ligaments and following him down the Mag Mile to see how he is walking is totally coddling the guy. That is one guy. There are far more people that make excuses for the guy than hold him accountable.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:10 PM) Nobody could question Joe Morgan or Tim McCarver You can question them all you want, but chances are they know more than you or me.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:07 PM) Yes, the guy that Bears fans get pissy about the looks on his face on the sideline, is coddled. The guy who saw controversy for yelling at one of his linemen is coddled. The guy who was killed for being soft in the playoffs against Green Bay is coddled. Seriously. Bears fans have excuses for Cutler and the Bears have also coddled him. Jeremy Bates? Boy that made Jay a better QB. There are always excuses for Cutler. He has one year left to show everyone what he is supposed to be.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 01:00 PM) National shows ripping Cutler? They must be right! What do they say about Tebow? Aren't the cowboys amazing? Fans know far more about football than Terry Bradshaw or Boomer Esiason. Especially about what it takes to play QB.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) That's just everyone coddling Cutler. Boomer isn't a Bears fan. Cutler gets ripped on the national shows. Bradshaw tore him a new one. Bears fans always have excuses for him. I was watching a show yesterday where one NFL "insider" said Cutler makes the Bears job the most attractive and the least attractive of all the openings, depending on the candidate, and the Bears can't hire a guy just based on his getting along with Jay because he might be gone in a year.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/footb...0,1841301.story

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 11:08 AM) By those standards the offensive line is coddled by the fans too. Show me where people put the blame on Cutler. If the offense sucks, it's not Cutler's fault, it's Lovie's fault. If Cutler throws a red zone INT, it's because the line sucks. Ultimately, nothing is ever his fault.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 11:04 AM) It won't change my mind, I just want to know how you can label him as above average given the results over the last 9 years. Considering Gruden was 45-51 his last 6 years and you called him a good coach, I'd consider a 9-7 average record per season for 9 years with a SB appearance above average.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 10:49 AM) You say that as if Cutler never has been criticized for his play against GB I say it as Cutler is one Bear who is coddled by the fans. Face it, the guy has struggled in big games, and his leadership up until this point in his career, has to be questioned. The QB is the focal point of every team. He needs to grow up. Maybe having a kid and a new offense will do that, but he is Jeff George right now.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 10:44 AM) No, I think his hall of fame defensive players got old and Tampa gave up a ton to get Gruden so they couldn't draft good players going forward. I admit he took over a really good defensive team that Dungy built, but he did make them a better offensive team and still was able to get them to the playoffs. If Lovie could have gotten his offense to be even average over the last 9 years the Bears would have been in the Superbowl a few times. Gruden's offenses in TB his last 6 years ranked closer to the bottom than the top of the league.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 10:37 AM) What did people really expect? They traded for a guy coming off a year where he had a 86 QB rating. Cutler's QB rating as a Bears QB? 81.9 and that's with a really bad offensive line and a horrible receiving corps 3 of the last 4 years. But with the history of the Bears, anybody would have killed for a QB that can consistently put up a QB rating near 85. Because we've constantly dealt with worse. Outside of the bad games against GB the last three years, can you really say that Cutler's been awful? The Bears won at a .675 clip with him since 2010 and they were a wreck without him. That alone should tell you that he's doing something right. Most teams do a lot better with their starter than their back up. I never said he was awful, he's just not anywhere near elite. Blame everything else. That's what Jay would do, and if he's awful vs. GB, if that's reason enough to criticize Lovie, it should be reason enough to let Cutler have it.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 4, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) I think bringing back a terrible Raiders franchise, making them a top team in the AFC and a superbowl contender, and then beating that team with another team he coached is pretty impressive. Overrated? Probably. But still good. What about the last 6 years of his career, was he just "unlucky". Jon Gruden hasn't won a playoff game in 10 years.