Dick Allen

Plus Floyd has really been pretty blah the last few seasons and is a free agent after the year. Do you really want to go 8 figures a year and 4 or 5 years for him? I think the Sox need to re-allocate his dollars for the 2013 squad if they can.

When Bielema played at Iowa, after the Hawkeyes beat Iowa State and Brett's teams had beaten them all 4 times he played against them, after the coaches shook hands he went up to the Iowa State coach and told him what a pleasure it was to kick his ass 4 straight years.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 10:53 AM) Dick, I get the feeling that Cleveland really wants him. It doesn't make sense though that they would go after Victorino and sign Youkilis and then turn around and try to deal Cabrera and Choo. He is from Ohio, and is familiar with Francona. I agree, if all the reports are true, it is hard to figure out Cleveland.

Supposedly Youk is almost ready to make a decision.

At least for 2013, bringing up Sanchez is questionable at best. Everyone complains when the Sox rush their prospects, but they always want the Sox to rush their prospects.

QUOTE (klaus kinski @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 09:19 AM) And put us in 4th place I don't know about that. KC, Cleveland and Minnesota are still in the ALC.

QUOTE (3E8 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 09:07 AM) A bit of an understatement. Keppinger had a career year at age 32 with a BABIP well above his average. Chances he comes close to what he did offensively are slim. Likeliest scenario is an average bat who is a sieve in the field. I'd be wary as well, but just about every 3B left on the free agent market has some fairly significant flaws.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 09:03 AM) Now you sound like Bernstein. Yeah, but I'm not trying to act like I have sources. I just won't be surprised with anything regarding those 2 positions except if they went Flowers/Gimenez and Morel/Hannahan. That would shock me.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 08:23 AM) Absolutely. The fall of from what AJP is likely to do in 2013 vs Flowers, is much smaller than Youk vs Morel. I think we are at the point where it shouldn't surprise anyone if neither, one, or both are back.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 03:00 AM) Yunel Escobar to Rays. LOL Marlins. They were making inquiries trying to trade him before they even acquired him officially. Nolasco is now the only Marlin making over $1.75 million. I'm sure Bud has told Loria he needs to bump up the payroll a little bit so look for someone like Reynolds to get overpaid for a year.

If the Sox go with Flowers behind the plate, they will do something other than Morel/Hannahan at 3B.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 07:51 AM) No matter what, you have to imagine that you are buying at his absolute peak. He isn't going to get any better than he is now. Right, and you don't know how long he can continue, and there are other factors like can your catchers handle knuckleballs. He'd be easy to add to a team as a #5 guy, but his performance and price tag to acquire says ace, and I think teams have a really hard time evaluating knuckleballers, and would be very reluctant paying a huge price for a knuckleball throwing "ace".

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 07:38 AM) I wouldn't touch him. Everything screams fluke in my head. He is old, but Brian Kenny a huge saber guy now on MLB Network said Dickey has been the 11th best pitcher in baseball over the last 3 years. He has pitched over 600 innings and his ERA is under 3.00. Because he's a knuckleballer, everyone has a tough time valuing him. If he threw 95 and did what he's done, the Mets would get what they are asking for.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 06:25 AM) <!--quoteo(post=2732916:date=Dec 5, 2012 -> 05:47 AM:name=Dick Allen)-->QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 05:47 AM) <!--quotec-->The deal kicks in 2014. The Sox always say they are at their payroll limit. Sometimes it means Darrin Erstad leads off and plays CF. sometimes it means they are trading for Jake Peavy and claiming Alex Rios. Sometimes it means we get to watch Andy Gonzalez try to play baseball, sometimes it means signing Adam Dunn and bring back Paulie and AJ. Oh ok, I didn't realize it didn't kick in until 2014. Sure seems like teams are already spending this money, given some of the contracts we're seeing this winter. But you're right, the Sox always say they are up against the wall and oftentimes they magically find some money at the last second. There's nothing wrong with this approach, as telling other GMs your exact figure payroll would be plain stupid. I do think we have some money to play with, especially if the pricing changes are expected to bring in more profits. A few teams have new local TV deals. It is the fuel behind the Rangers and Dodgers spending.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 5, 2012 -> 05:41 AM) Question, if there is a new TV deal that's giving all these teams millions of dollars to play with this winter, how come our payroll is going to remain flat according to rumors? I think we have more flexibility than has been reported. The deal kicks in 2014. The Sox always say they are at their payroll limit. Sometimes it means Darrin Erstad leads off and plays CF. sometimes it means they are trading for Jake Peavy and claiming Alex Rios. Sometimes it means we get to watch Andy Gonzalez try to play baseball, sometimes it means signing Adam Dunn and bring back Paulie and AJ.

The Indians don't want him, the Twins don't want him........On the other hand he won't cost much, I suppose it wouldn't necessarily be the White Sox final answer at 3B

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 07:29 PM) But the biggest mistake people make is assume they can expect repeat years from year to year.......from anyone. Thus, we need to upgrade wherever possible, because the drop off in production we'll get from--whoever, De Aza, Rios, catcher spot-- has to be offset at least SOME. There is reason to believe several White Sox will be better. Maybe they won't . There usually are a couple of surprises both good and bad. I do agree, the roster still needs some work, and something will be done. They are serious about competing next year.

The Sox were still doing OK with a worthless Morel and then Hudson in 2011. Hannahan/Morel would be depressing, without a doubt but still an upgrade over the first half of 2011,

One thing to keep in mind, $7 million of Paulie's salary this year is deferred into $1 million increments from 2014-2020, and the additional $25 million a year kicks in for TV next year. The Sox have some wiggle room even if they are being straight about payroll remaining the same.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 06:10 PM) https://twitter.com/PMac21/status/276111390979276800 Phil Mackey ‏@PMac21 Slow day on #MNTwins front again, aside from several meetings. I heard Twins did meet with 3B Jack Hannahan's rep yesterday. Thank God. From a personal perspective, Jack Hannahan would have depressed me. At a game last year against Cleveland, I told my buddy the Indians won't contend until they stop trotting out guys like Hannahan to play 3B.

Maybe this post will change things this year but unless your team is in on free agents the winter meetings are just a cock tease

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 02:02 PM) Ugh. I've responded to all of you points in other posts, I just think that you aren't reading them. That's fine, few here read my posts anyway. For the record, I hate iPads and all that s*** anyway. I think they're excessive and too many people use them to be lazy. When they're too busy looking at their phones and junk to watch for cars while crossing the street/parking lot, I feel a deep inner desire to run them over on purpose. I'd love to own a snowplow, and if I did I'd weld spikes onto it, and I'd pile up bodies in the parking lots of every major shopping area. People wouldn't identify Wal-Marts by the big lighted signs out front, they'd identify the stores by the giant mass of rotting flesh mounded in the back of the parking lot. But I don't know why I'm going on about this because this has nothing to do with baseball. I was just thinking yesterday that it's like I'm the one coaching first base here, and I'm out there shagging flyballs to Rajai Davis, and he keeps making these one-handed spin catches all the time even though after every single one I have to hear Farmio in my ear screaming "God damn it Rajai that's not how we play it!" Do we still play defense in the bottom of the 3rd inning while on the road? Do we still have to wear pants in the outfield? Yes, Rajai. Yes we do. Grab your glove and take the field. The game hasn't changed *that* much in the last 100+ years to the point where OPS on paper is so valuable that it negates proper context. Put aside this argument for a second and just consider that one last point of mine about the HOF. Dunn is going to be on that list, and if he doesn't get in, he'll stick around because of the sheer number of HRs he has hit during his career. Napoli OTOH doesn't sniff it. Maybe you and others think the game hasn't caught up to the times/stats, but I OTOH disagree, and I feel that the understanding of the game has generally gone down, and people probably know less about it now than before, and weights on stats like HRs are actually important for the right reasons. Granted, ERA is way overrated, as is fielding %, but batting average is NOT since contact (especially hard contact) is a specific skill, and so on. Graphs & computers have done a great job as far as evaluating movement on pitches and movement on defense/defensive sets in relation to batted balls, but offensively, IMO the stats are making fans dumber. JMO. Tell ya what: you say toe-mah-toe all you want & I'm gonna keep saying toe-may-toe & that will be that. But if you can find where I said that paying $15M per to Adam Dunn is wise I will not post on this forum for at least 6 months. I promise. QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Dec 3, 2012 -> 12:02 PM) 3 years, $39M is a good deal for Dunn if he was a FA right now My mistake, you said 3 years 39 million is a good deal for Dunn.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) The arrogance on both sides will make this thread unbearable soon. Personally, I think the best evaluators are good using both sides. I think at times stats lie and at times your eyes deceive. That said, I don't think any here actually is being paid for evaluations. If people want to argue a player's worth using either or both, what's the harm? Debating player performance is part of what makes the game fun.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Dec 4, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) ptatc, maybe you can respond in whatever non-baseball thread we have here......but what things do you keep in mind when evaluating an ACL-tear player returning to NFL (Adrian Peterson) vs. returning to NBA (Derrick Rose) takes longer in basketball due to hardfloor vs. grass/turf? more jumping for longer continuous periods of time? I don't know if you saw it, but the Sun Times is reporting DRose will be back practicing in the next couple of weeks.

I wonder if any of this caused is drop in performance in 2011. If the Sox get the 2008-2010 John Danks, it will be a tremendous addition.