Dick Allen

I don't buy the Pagan stuff the thread starter has a rep for making stuff up, but I do wonder if De Aza's preference to play LF has rubbed the White Sox the wrong way.

I would rather the Sox sign Melky Cabrera. Cheaper, might still have steroids in his system. $10 million a year or more for Angel Pagan is not wise, and I doubt there is any truth to this rumor.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 11:50 PM) Anyway, what would be the opinion if the Sox were to trade Gavin Floyd + Matt Thornton + Jared Mitchell + cash to the Dbacks for 3B Chris Johnson (they are openly trying to upgrade 3B) and SP Trevor Bauer (has fallen out of favor in ARI, trying to trade him as well). Sox get an upgrade over Morel (albeit, not a very big one) and a high ceiling young SP who is 21, and is a big time strikeout pitcher (with some control issues). And if you don't like the trade for either Sox or Dbacks, then what about Chris Johnson in general? Not a real big splash, but an okay offensive player who is at the very least an upgrade over Morel. He is not on your list.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jaysonst/status/...048579694850048

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) I don't see how its that unrealistic at all. Yes I've said a few times that its not gonna happen but not because it can't. 2 execs already said it be "easier to trade Rios for cap relief" so thats not unrealistic Everyone already expects Floyd to be traded, presumably for a 3B. You can trade for one making around 5-7 mill and still be around the salary Hahn put out there. And a lot of people want Thornton traded so I'm not living out of reality right there either. Salary relief and getting back someone useful are 2 very different things. Not only do you want a serviceable catcher, you also want the answer at 3B. Then paying a guy $25 million a year who is one night away from being worthless. His own quote was he basically plays 4 out of 6 months missing the other 2 because of injury or slumps, but says because he still puts up big numbers, its "cool". Don't let his book blind your judgement. I would also suggest you stay away from Lance Armstrong's biography. I'm not saying Hamilton is anywhere near the phony Armstrong, Hamiliton may be a much better guy, might stay clean for the rest of his life, I hope he does, but he's not worth the risk. Just check out those photos of when he was at the bar messed up. If you think alcohol is not a problem for him, try again. Shirt off, licking whip cream off tits, dry humping women.

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 03:51 PM) Ya but theirs a huge difference between the 80 Mill on Verons contract compared to just 25 on Alexs deal. OK, the Sox will trade Floyd, Thornton and Rios, get a decent catcher and someone who can take over at 3b making virtually nothing,and spend the money they just saved signing Josh Hamilton. When do you want to get back to reality?

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 01:42 PM) I guess that depends on where he plays next year. He played half of his games in Petco Park, the biggest park of them all, and still hit 42% of his HR there. And within his division was the least homered in park in all of baseball the past 2 season, AT&T Park. If Headley were to go to the Sox, I think it would be quite reasonable to expect at least 25 HR, and 30+ wouldn't surprised anyone. I think you would be disappointed. He still hit almost half at home so it really wasn't'the negative it sometimes can be. Adrian Gonzalez didn't suddenly pop more homers after,leaving there, and that 31 total was way out there compared to the rest of his career. In 2011 he hit 4. If I were him, I'd cash in on his 2012 numbers and sign an extension. He could get burned, but there is a better chance he won"t. That is all I'm saying.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 01:46 PM) Dude, it's also a book. Just because it's on paper doesn't make it completely true. They can write as much as they want about how he's changed, but the fact is he's relapsed before and the odds are it's going to happen again. Who knows how bad the next relapse is going to be, it's a huge freakin' risk on money that would be best spent elsewhere. Exactly. When he slipped up in 2009 and was photographed shirtless and drunk in a bar with a bunch of women who were'r his wife, asking where he could get cocaine, he was quoted the next day he would never drink again because of what it led to. He has had drinks since. He is a great player but not a guy you want to throw all that money at. The other thing is the guy misses a lot of games. He misses only 14 this year, like that is something spectacular.Moving forward, you would have to figure he would miss 30-40 games a year the next 5 years, at the very least based on his history and his getting older.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) I would be less leery of a 28 year old finding his power stroke than a 35 year old. Either could be tainted, either could be valid. But Headley is in the prime of his career, AJ is winding down. I would not expect him to hit 31 homers next year. He probably w will be a lot closer to his previous high of 12. If somehow the Sox got him, expectations would be through the roof, odds are he couldn't live up to them.

For everyone that says AJPs power surge was a fluke, what about Headley's?

QUOTE (2nd_city_saint787 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 12:54 PM) Yup, and he takes them more often than a regular player. Back around when his book was made (a few years back into his playing career) he was still getting them weekly or bi weekly. That tells me he's been clean for 6 years. I also don't consider his yearly bender where he goes out and drinks a relapse or that big a deal if it doesn't lead to hardcore drug use. Are MLB players not supposed to drink during the year? Generally recovering alcoholics aren't supposed to be drinking at all.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 12, 2012 -> 08:46 AM) I think people might be overstating what kind of money he's going to get. Everyone in baseball knows the risks with a guy like this, not to mention his body is effectively a lot older than 32. I'd be surprised if he got more than 3 or 4 years, and I'd bet on 3 over 4. The money might be pretty big, but I'm thinking more like $15M per. Someone always overpays.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 11, 2012 -> 09:33 AM) I haven't looked, but perhaps the Rangers already have too much money committed to other long term contracts. If they are willing to pay him for 3 years, I doubt they have much committed beyond that, but perhaps they are projecting what their younger guys will be making in 4 or 5 years, although it's rare a young core stays together that long. Hamilton has missed a lot of games in his career even while posting huge numbers. You would have to think that probably won't change and could get worse as he ages. If he didn't have the issues he has had, on the field he is exactly what the White Sox need. The problem is, it is something that can just as easily blow up in their face, and not many want to take the responsibility if that happened. I think some owner will decide his team needs Hamilton and will open the checkbook. The Sox don't operate like that.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Nov 11, 2012 -> 09:14 AM) Most “big market” teams have a high priced star offensive player. The Sox will almost certainly have to find one after Konerko, Rios and Dunn are gone. Hamilton, signed to a long term deal, could be that guy. Hamilton will be 32 this season. He should have 5 good years left, at least. If you add the possibility of him DH’ing perhaps he has 7 or 8 years. $25 million per year for the next 5 years is reasonable. He should still be worth close to half of that in years 7 and 8. $150 million for 7 years should be acceptable, if he would take it. However, the question is; whether or not there would be room on the payroll for such an addition. The long term commitment is the biggest concern. In that regard, the Sox are in the enviable position of having almost no money committed past 2014. The only two players under contract for 2015 are Ramirez and Danks: Alexei Ramirez 13:$7M, 14:$9.5M, 15:$10M, 16:$10M club option ($1M buyout) John Danks 13:$14.25M, 14:$14.25M, 15:$14.25M, 16:$14.25M If you look at the 3 year "board", and try to imagine whom management is anticipating might be on the roster, you could project something like this for 2015 and or 2016, with Hamilton added: CF K. Walker (Tekotte, J. Mitchell) 2B C. Sanchez DH J. Hamilton RF C. Hawkins 1B K. Barnum C T. Flowers LF T. Thompson 3B ? SS Ramirez SP Danks Sales Quintana Castro Bullpen Santiago Reed Jones Veal There is potentially a lot of young talent that could fill out the roster, at a low cost. That might actually give the Sox a little room to contemplate signing Hamilton. Why not go for it now, and see what happens after Dunn, Rios, Konerko, Peavy and some of the other guys are gone after 2014. Until then, that lineup would sure look good with Hamilton's left handed bat. The thing that would scare me is the team that really knows him best, and throws money around like it's nothing, is only willing to go 3 years.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 07:02 PM) Thornton's just not consistently reliable enough for his money. When you thought who's reliable in the 2nd half, it was pretty limited to Jones and Veal. Veal was perfect for almost the entire season (I think Fielder finally dinged him) at the lowest possible salary. Of course, we all know what happened with Cotts/Politte. Or Dotel and Linebrink (overpaying), on the other side. You have to worry about Reed coming in as the closer, there's no doubt. Jones was erratic but showed potential and has the stuff. Reed's stuff was a bit lacking, for whatever reason. Fathom pointed this out pretty consistently throughout the 2nd half of the season, although there seemed to be more of a sense that Ventura was mismanaging the pen as much as they were failing...a little bit of both probably. I know that I highlighted the blown saves statistic quite frequently. If there's any team in the majors that we should be trying to emulate, it's the TB Rays, not the Orioles. They (the Orioles) were the "comeback kids," but those bullpen numbers and runs scored/runs against numbers won't hold up year to year. They had incredible numbers in one run games, extra innings, etc. Or just look at the Tigers' bullpen from 2012 vs. Valverde's dominance the prior year. He's gone from 49/49 to the least popular pitcher on the entire roster, maybe the least popular player overall. Not easy to do in just one season. You also highlighted how much Nate Jones sucked in 2012 quite frequently. As for Thornton, if a guy who appears in 74 games, has a 3.46 ERA, and has an over 3 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio is the biggest problem with your bullpen, there is nothing to fix.

QUOTE (flavum @ Nov 10, 2012 -> 04:17 PM) Somebody on twitter is trying hard to spread the word that catcher Bryan Anderson is coming to the Sox from St. Louis. He was outrighted to AAA Memphis last week. Possible, I guess. Can never have enough BAs on your roster.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:24 PM) Phil can barely walk - I'd say no. This is interesting, though. Who the f*** will they hire as coach? Someone who doesn't want to run the Princeton offense, I'm sure! Stan Van Gundy? LOLOLOL DWIGHT NO Hmmm - I bet it's Bryan Shaw. Looks like Phil is coming back for round 3.

Gonzo was on with Kaplan and said he could see Beckham moved since his salary will be going up a couple of million. He can't see the Sox trading De Aza because they have been searching for a lead off hitter for years, and finally have one, and really doubts Viciedo is going anywhere due to talent and cost. Floyd he thinks will go if the deal is right.

QUOTE (mataipaepae @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:46 PM) i wonder if we even thought about moving courtney hawkins to 3B? our top pick last year. he has great athleticism and a very strong arm. he has a big bat for a corner infield position. and at 6'3" 220 has great size for it as well. could be an option in a couple years to take the position. I would think as long as KW is around, the Sox will know exactly the dangers in making that move. I'm not saying it wouldn't work, but KW went from a terrific prospect to bust when moved from the OF to 3b. Many thought he was going to be a star in CF. Maybe he would have still have been a bust, but I'm sure he knows exactly what the move entails.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:42 PM) Everybody likes the idea of 3-ways but very few people actually go through with it. I'd pay money for Hawk to say" I love 3 ways" on the air.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:20 PM) I don't want to get older, I want to get younger where we can with big time type players. ADA is solid, but as a LF he's not nearly the same value as a CF. It's very clear he's not comfortable in CF and doesn't want to play there. I'd be very open to moving him because I believe a LF with his skill set is not an integral part to our success in the future. I wouldn't trade any good, young, high upside long term pieces but I don't think we have many of those anyway. OTOH I'd have no problem rearranging deck chairs and reallocating payroll from one area to another by bringing in proven vets on 1-3 year deals, preferably 1 yr + option or 2 yr + option deals. I think Hafner is a great target. I can't find the stats but IIRC he seems to do very well at the Cell, loves the batters eye or something. If we could dump Dunn, we could realistically get him for 2 years as a platoon partner for well less than we'd be giving Dunn in 1 year. Paulie is getting up there, so extra DH time would be good for him, and Viciedo could use more DH time as well if we're going to be working in other OF possibilities over that span. I would actually love Hafner for 2 years $12M, dump Dunn while eating no more than $5M in return contracts or salary, and you end up with about $13-18M left over to spread out into other areas. I really want Dunn gone honestly. He's a headcase and now is the time to dump his ass if we can. Sorry. You can't dump Dunn.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:17 PM) All I know is that 3-way trades are generally blockbusters, so I'm excited to see what happens. With the Sox, it seems 3 ways would be to get prospects other teams covet. Viciedo, De Aza and to a little lesser extent, Beckham, are precisely the guys on the Sox roster that could get you the best prospects. The other players all have money issues.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 12:12 PM) When Hahn mentioned some 3-way type deals, all I can think about is him trying to get Choo. Possible,and if Cleveland trades him, they can't do anything about another team moving him along. I just have a tough time believing they would trade perhaps their best player knowing he would be movedwithin the division, although they have to know, especially trading these types, they will be bad for a while. He is another guy who fits the Sox needs very well.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 11:34 AM) You aren't valuing Floyd too highly but it's probably the wrong team. San Diego will probably play Gyorko at 2B if they keep Headley. Also, I don't think SD would want 1 year of Floyd at $9.5 million. Granted, that is a bargain, I think they want cost controllable arms with years of arbitration still coming. Some speculation the Sox may be interested,in Logan Forsythe who appears to be the odd man out in SD.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 9, 2012 -> 11:32 AM) But we don't have anything like the bullets to get Upton. The D'backs want a young, cheap SS, 3B, or SP to be the centerpiece, and we just don't have any of that to give up -- all of our young value is in OF and RP. Even if you came up with a reasonable package, the Rays can trump it instantly with any of their breakout SP candidates. There's just no scenario where we end up with the best offer for Upton. Maybe the Sox use these players to get what AZ wants.hahn mentioned 3 way trades yesterday.