Dick Allen

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:28 PM) I think the vast majority of posters would take my position over yours...but because I am vigorously debating that position, that makes me somehow wrong... You really are a piece of work. You know who has numbers even more sustainable than Adam Dunn? Brent Morel. He gets an A+

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 02:03 PM) Because unfortunately ss2k's grades for the 1/3 of the season don't mean anything....but what Dunn and Konerko do over the course of the entire season actually does... I'm assuming the only purpose of actually placing grades on players after 1/3 of the season is to somehow assess what we have here going forward? And if that is indeed the case, sustainable vs. unsustainable would certainly be relevant topics to the discussion. None of these grades mean anything and you're the one arguing about them the most. What the W-L at the end of the season is at is the only grade that matters. Just because Dunn's numbers are more "sustainable" doesn't mean jack. At the end of the season, assuming no injuries, you know Konerko will have better numbers than Dunn.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:55 PM) I'm just trying to get a feel for your grading scale...I've made the argument that it is almost impossible, minus cherry-picking a player who is producing at an unsustainable rate, to earn an A in your grading scale, if you are an elite player. I think that is a legitimate flaw in your scale. You haven't really addressed that. What does unsustainable or sustainable have to do with the grade for the first 1/3 of the season? And just because something appears to be more sustainable, doesn't necessarily mean it will be sustained.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:51 PM) No, that is not what I said. Let me ask you this, DA...if what we're arguing is that these grades are all relative to expectations, than what does the question "Who would you rather have up at the plate" have to do with anything? Clearly if Dunn is having an A season, Konerko's is off the charts ungradable. Yet you are trying to find flaws with Paulie. The unsustainable argument is irrelative as he was able to sustain it for the grading period.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:45 PM) Hah! I didn't ask you to participate in this thread, DA...you chose to debate the point with me. At every step of the way I've backed up my points with statistics. If the mere fact that I am correct and you are wrong gets under your skin, then yes, I guess I am just trying to get under your skin, DA. No, you don't get under my skin. I know the game you're playing. You're not as smart as you think.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) First of all, is there something wrong with arguing? Is this not a message board? Have I stated anything at all which has not been based on statistics? Secondly, how does my answer show that? Thirdly, your attempts to rephrase the argument into questions like "If you had to take one player's baseball card to a deserted island, who's would it be"? just shows that your argument is weaker than mine. Where did I mention baseball cards? You were mentioning Konerko and Dunn. I said who would you rather have up at the plate? You took Dunn. I doubt Adam's mom would give that answer.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) First of all, is there something wrong with arguing? Is this not a message board? Have I stated anything at all which has not been based on statistics? Secondly, how does my answer show that? You're just trying to get under people's skin. I won't fall for it.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:35 PM) What does that have to do with this discussion? And if I needed a home run, Dunn. Your answer shows you just want to argue. And what does the sustaining question have to do with the argument? If anything it shows if Konerko is playing at an unsustainable level, he must be having an outstanding, therefore grade A season. If Dunn is playing at a sustainable level, its probably not outstanding.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:29 PM) I believe they already finished the work on the Blue Line to eliminate the slow zones. It took years working almost every weekend. Now with the Red Line, they figured closing it for a few months is easier and cheaper. There still are a ton of slow zones up north and between Clark/Dvision and Chinatown. I wonder how they will address those. You go about 1/2 a mile an hour the last block into Chinatown.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 01:30 PM) And secondly, let me ask you this...who do you think has a better chance to sustain their current production for the remainder of the year, Dunn or Konerko? Who would you rather have up at the plate ?

Dunn averages 4.39 plate appearances a game. He has put the ball in play 102 times in 54 games. Considering driving in runs and hitting home runs requires he do this, think what kind of damage he would do if he could up his 1.89 average of times putting a ball in play per game. If it were Brent Lillibridge putting up the same numbers, its an easy A. Adam Dunn making $15 million, more is expected. Its a good year, I bet if you asked him, he'd tell you its not outstanding.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:52 PM) Well average is just one component of on base percentage. I could understand being frustrated by a low average, even if it was accompanied by a high OBP, if the hitter didn't hit for power. But Dunn gives you the power you're looking for to go along with the high OBP...would it be a heck of a lot different if he hit .300 and just walked half as much? I don't have a problem with Dunn's game. Go back to the Thome era and see who stuck up for him. I get the power/ low average/high OBP stuff. I'd rather Dunn make a little more contact, because he doesn't have to hit it all that well to hit it over the fence. I appreciate 500 foot blasts as much as anyone, but the ball that clears the wall by 6 inches counts the same. Just remember a walk to Adam Dunn isn't as quite as valuable to the White Sox as a walk to Alejandro De Aza.

QUOTE (Reddy @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 12:41 PM) for everyone still in the statistical dark ages (SS, DA, etc) OBP>>>>>>>>AVG in determining a players' value. OPS>>>>>>>>AVG in determining a players' value. why is this difficult to grasp? Its really not difficult to grasp, and I've said Dunn is doing decently, just not outstanding which would warrant an A. but a hit is still better than a walk no matter what your fantasy baseball book tells you, and a strikeout still isn't the same as any other out as runners don't advance or score.

Good news, south of Roosevelt the Red Line will be running on Green Line tracks so you'll just have to walk a little farther. State and 35th actually used to be the Red Line stop. It won't make it the shuttle bus/transfer nightmare the Tribune made it out to be.

It will give more people another excuse not to go to games. It is definitely going to hurt attendance, although its not that bad transferring to the Green Line at Roosevelt north. South, I don't know.

White Sox nightmare 2013: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...0,2059367.story

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 11:04 AM) Doing fine? Konerko has sucked in the last 6 games, should we lower his grade too? If it was last season and you had not watched baseball all year, and 54 games in, you see Dunn's current numbers, you'd say they are pretty decent, but could and should be better in some areas. Now when I point that out, that for $15 million or $16 million, whatever he is being paid, more could be expected, you tell me I'm wrong. He's doing decently. He's certainly not carrying the team. I'm sure the Sox want more. I wouldn't give him a grade of an A.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:52 AM) That's because so many other guys have been hot...what did he do leading up to that point, DA? He was doing fine when the team was around .500. They have been winning with his perfomance dipping, which makes me wonder why Beckham and Viciedo aren't graded higher.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:38 AM) I am probably going to echo the Hawkeroo here, but it's not just that he is hitting home runs and driving in runs, but he has hit some BIG home runs that have won games for us. I will say this...just because a guy has put up big numbers his whole career, and then he does it again or exceeds those numbers, I don't believe you grade him as average because there are certain expectations. If a guy scores 95's on tests his whole academic career, you don't say he should get a "C" because that is what he does every time. A "95" is still an "A," no matter how you slice it. The Sox hot streak started the second game in Anaheim. Counting that game until now Dunn is 10-56 .179 5 homers 10 rbi 18 walks 37 strikeouts During the time the White Sox have gone from stepping back a season or two and rebuilding to solid contender, he hasn't done all that well. If you want to give him an A, you probably want everyone to have a trophy.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) Average as in "this is what we expected" or average as in "okay, but we expected more"? I think when he signed the Sox and all of us expected a .900 or so OPS. Drive in 100 runs. That's about where he's at. When Thome was putting up those numbers for a lot less money, he was hated as an all or nothing guy. Dunn is obviously valuable if he can keep up his current pace. I think coming into this year, just about everyone would have taken an .800 OPS driving in about 75. IMO, it is what makes his performance look better than it really is.

QUOTE (Jose Paniagua @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 10:02 AM) southsider2k - batting average is just one slice of the pie. focusing way too much on that. in the important categories, he is somewhere between 'very good' and absolutely carrying us I'd say the guys carrying the White Sox offensively during this hot streak are Konerko, Viciedo and Beckham. De Aza and Dunn have definitely contributed a lot, but I think the view on Dunn is skewed. Compared to last year, he's outstanding. Compared to what was expected when he signed and the rest of his career, he's average.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 4, 2012 -> 09:54 AM) And Boston's going to give him up to a team they might meet in the playoffs JUST for salary relief? It won't be THAT easy. And it's going to take more than just exchanging the Thornton and Youkilis contracts. I agree. I have a hard time believing they would basically give him to the White Sox for salary relief. Maybe an NL team, but not an AL playoff contender. If Morel isn't healthy or effective and Seattle releases Figgins, I think he'll be the next experiment at 3B.

Paulie has played third for the Sox but that time has passed.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 3, 2012 -> 10:58 AM) When the Sox got Floyd from Phillies.............Philly brass felt about Floyd what most of Sox fans feel he is never going to be more than what he is now. Trading Floyd for Youk would not be overpaying to me........Floyd's value decreases every start. I'm one of Floyd's biggest detractors, but we are entering the time of year he historically becomes quite dominating. He then tends to become mediocre just after the trade deadline. I'd hang on to him at least until around the deadline. Having his current numbers on June 3rd is nothing new.

He's a good man. He actually told KW to sign Alexei Ramirez and told him if he didn't work out, they could take Ramirez's salary out of his check. Obviously that wouldn't happen, but he is one of the biggest, if not the biggest reason the Sox distributed World Championship rings. And there's no way he's only 40.