Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 01:15 PM) Again, you've spelled out the catch 22 here. If the Sox went into the season with Viciedo, De Aza, and Morel in their lineup, people wouldn't look at this team and think "This team is set to compete right now". If you wanted to field a team ready to challenge for the AL this year, you wouldn't give any of those guys a starting spot coming in to this year, you'd spend money to try to put someone better in those positions. Telling the season ticket holders to stay, they're competing again this year...that's a $130 million+ payroll, and it requires blocking/getting rid of question mark guys who might give you something but who you can't count on (Alejandro). Even if you kept Buehrle, you're in the same boat...most of the season ticket holders would have no confidence in the team coming in to this year, except they'd have a $15 million a year pitcher taking up even more of their payroll. You're right it doesn't sell tickets, but that's what the failure of last year left us with. When you go all in and lose, you're out and you have to start again. Not really. I think the Sox attendance even if Buerhle came back, would be down from last year, but instead of the average being 21,330 I believe it would be at least 22,330. Nothing great, but an improvement, and when you add that additional money up with what they alledgedly offered Soler, get creative and its possible Buerhle takes the offer. For now it would look pretty good, who knows, it could look real ugly a month from now.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Jun 18, 2012 -> 01:56 AM) They need to deal for Matt Dominguez. He's 23, in AAA, and a former 1st round pick that is blocked by Hanley. He's elite defensively and has potential to hit at least at a servicable level in the bigs. So he's Brent Morel.

QUOTE (Cerbaho-WG @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) What is the OF doing so deep? Ironically it was a no doubles defense

QUOTE (Baron @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 05:59 PM) Glad Matt wants to end this game here as well. What a worthless reliever he is. When the LF plays a single into a triple blame the pitcher.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:56 PM) There's the key though...all of your points are premised on the concept that they weren't going into a rebuilding year. They were. Trading John Danks for middling prospects would have been the same message, and then we'd be stuck paying Mark Buehrle an enormous amount of money that even the Marlins think is crazy. I actually, and you can go back and search my posts, was never as high on Detroit as the majority of humans. I thought the Sox had a chance coming into this season even without Buerhle. Back in December, when Buerhle left, I didn't feel they had any chance. One reason attendance is low is the Sox had a bad year last year and this winter made no splash. Really, the only hope was bounce back seasons from a lot of guys. That doesn't sell tickets, and it keeps you from selling tickets. The Sox weren't changing much, but losing their most reliable pitcher, whether he's an ace or not. That cost them some sales.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:59 PM) No. Zero effect. That just confirms that 1000 is low.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:50 PM) Yeah, I just skimmed through your post and misunderstood. The season ticket holders left because we weren't winning and they were sick of the soap opera, that's my guess. Ozzie left, so the soap opera was over. I actually loved the Ventura signing from the start. I did initially state we would not renew unless both KW and Ozzie were gone, but we would have most likely renewed had the Sox been seen as "all in" again. At least looked like they were aiming to win the division. Obviously having Buerhle would have helped, and I don't blame them for not giving him $58 million. I just wish they made him an offer, they weren't tapped out. He basically said he would have taken less. How much less we will never know, so any of this is speculative, but I'm sure vendors are glad he's gone.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:38 PM) Frankly, I don't believe any of that. The last straw was being a below .500 team last year. As a former season ticketholder, it was my final straw, and I had them long before 2005. I don't think I am far different than most. It seemed to confirm to me they were going into a total rebuild which I didn't want to spend that kind of money to watch, which also kills advanced sales. I think 1K a game may even be low. As Turns out, this season is far more enjoyable than I ever would have imagined, and while I miss my seats, I've been able to get real good deals and have still gone to about 10 games. It was sort of nice not "having" to go to games in April or May when it was not so nice outside. The only downside is if they make the playoffs, I miss out, but I'm sure there will be plenty of opportunities to jump right back in if that appears a certainty.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) I can't believe 1000 people would come just to see Mark Buehrle. That's not what I'm saying. I think losing Buerhle was the final straw for many people with season tickets as far as renewal and hurt pre season sales.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:30 PM) Danks is getting paid #2-type money and I think you need two starters better than Danks to win a WS. Sox fans love him because of game 163 vs. Twins. That game was fine, but I love him because he should be entering his prime and he's put up several real good seasons, and I don't think he's reached his best yet. Right now, the Sox probably have 2 starters better than Danks in Sale and Peavy. Sale's dominated, Peavy has looked like a guy who has won a Cy Young. I think Danks is going to step up when he returns, assuming he is healthy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) Mark Buehrle wasn't going to leave $20 million on the table to stay in Chicago. Who said he would, but why not throw out your best shot? I actually think Buerhle leaving was the last straw for many season ticket accounts. Obviously, attendance has been trending down for quite some time, but I'd bet if Buerhle stayed, the Sox attendance would be up at least 1000 a game. 81000 x $50 a very conservate number for ticket, parking, concession and souvenier is still $4 million a year. Multiply that by 4 years and what they offered Soler plus just a reasonable estimate what the collateral damage was not bringing back Buerhle was, and you're pretty close. Plus, with Peavy coming off the books, the future money shouldn't be prohibitive. Also, it would have freed KW to trade either Danks or Floyd last winter, even if he was serious about competing in 2012. Maybe the plan all along was to either get someone to overpay for Danks or sign him. If Sox fans have a problem with Danks getting extended, they will have a problem with just about anything.

Danks isn't getting paid all that much this year. Next year is when the big bucks start rolling in. Its always a gamble to give any pitcher 4 or 5 or even more years. So far it looks like a mistake, but judging it now is so silly its beyond ridiculous. I wish the Sox brought back Buerhle. He was willing to take less than he received, yet there was no offer, and considering they were trying to throw some money Soler's way, its apparent the checking account wasn't as low as they have expertly have it perceived. But signing Danks is a decent move. You win with pitching. He's young, and up until now has been very healthy. He had a circulation problem several years ago that was cleared up quickly, and last year had a rib cage injury. So the injury concern was minimal. Except for his rookie year, when he was shut down, and last year's trip to the DL, he's made at least 32 starts each season. He's been a horse. I still can't get over how many posters wanted a total rebuild, yet have absolutely zero patience. s*** happens. Hopefully, there is no damage in Danks' shoulder. If there is not, there's no reason to think he won't be a real good pitcher the next several seasons.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 08:43 AM) Considering that a 30+ save, close to 85% conversion rate, cost-controlled closer nets you only Nestor Molina, call me unimpressed. Maybe you're right, it's better off if we don't let Marco Paddy or KW have anything to do with any more trades. Why would they give Gavin Floyd an extension if they have a $9.5 million club option for 2013 already? They're now going to turn around and sign him to an extension for $21-27 million over 3 years? That's like signing Mark Teahen to an extension when they already controlled his rights anyway. The point is even if KW made the worst possible trades in the history of baseball for Floyd and Thornton, their salaries would be off the books, our record would arguably be the same or better and we'd have another $12-15 million to use now that we know we definitely need another starter to compete this season. Hindsight is always very accurate. We could have said why did Ventura start Sale last night, it would have been a good time to skip his spot in the rotation. It will be interesting to see your comments once Floyd gets hot, which happens just about every season. I'd imagine the reality is Thornton and Floyd have about the same trade value now as they did in December. And I didn't say sign him to an extension, I said when he gets hot for 6 weeks, like he always does, there will be posts wanting to lock this guy up for the foreseeable future, and it wouldn't surprise me if one or a hundred of those future posts were by you.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 08:17 AM) Dan McNeil was right if he said we needed a legitimate upgrade at 3B and another starting pitcher to compete. And two of the biggest trading chips we could have used this entire offseason, Gavin Floyd and Matt Thornton, are both at their lowest values ever in a Sox uniform. Your move, KW and JR. Stand still, you get passed. The Sox need an upgrade at 3B? That's an astute observation. I'm Gavin Floyd's biggest critic, but what kind of logic are you using when you say the Sox needed a starting pitcher, and then ripping them for not trading a starting pitcher? I'm also, except for Marty, KWs biggest critic , and I'm sure he listened on offers for Floyd and Thornton. Considering what was received for Santos and Quentin, I'm sure those offers weren't nearly what you think they would be. The problem is, this is nothing new for Floyd. His ERA is normally about where it is right now this time of year. He'll get hot for 6 weeks, all will be forgiven. Extensions will be discussed on this board. Then he'll be mediocre again and it will be the offseason. Other GMs who would actually have to pay Gavin notice this as well. Keep in mind, KW could land Verlander and David Wright today. This still wouldn't be the Sox last 3 game losing streak of the season. And here's the column you were ripping not even a week ago: http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/colum...,6968593.column

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2012 -> 07:54 AM) Every team in the AL Central is legitimately back in the race now. In 2003, the Royals were 6 1/2 and 7 games ahead of the White Sox and Twins, and that was at the All-Star break. They let everyone back in because the ONE thing the White Sox did better than any other team was win on the road in interleague play. Before the Cardinals series started, we were 23-7 in our last 30 road interleague games. 1-3 and 5-5 overall in interleague isn't going to get it done, and the next 8 games all present tough pitching match-ups for the Sox. This year, the only logical way the Sox can win the AL Central is to beat the Royals and Twins consistently. The point is they were never out of the race. To thing the Sox are going to continue a nearly .800 pace during interleague play is insane. The only way the White Sox will win the divison is by beating their rivals in the AL Central. That is really nothing new. It was just last week you proclaimed 4 or 5 games out of first is nowhere near first place. Now you have changed. Who would have figured? Maybe Dan McNeil was right.

The Sox lost facing Kershaw. This season is ova. I see Mitt's(caulfied) pendulum is starting to swing the other way again. "Let" other teams back in the "race". That's rich. Like 4 or 5 out with 100 to play is out of it in the AL Central. The Sox are flawed. KW would probably even admit that. So is every other team in the division. If they pitch, they win. Anyone who really thinks KW would consider trading Viciedo for a 3 month rental has not been paying attention.

Floyd has had difficulty from the stretch his entire career, whether he was paying attention to baserunners or not, but the way his fastball is getting crushed, maybe he's tipping his pitches. Its amazing how bad hitters have been looking vs. his curve the last couple of games, but he winds up giving up a lot of runs.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 14, 2012 -> 09:47 PM) Please tell me Chris Sale is already in LA. I'd be shocked if he's not, although it shouldn't be too late when they get there.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jun 14, 2012 -> 09:45 PM) How about Alexei does something this inning for once? You would think he'd have it going by now. This far into the season and total garbage offensively is cause for concern. Not only isn't he hitting, his walk rate is at an all time low.

At least Rios won't hit into a DP here.

He should have crushed that pitch.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jun 14, 2012 -> 09:04 PM) AR drilled. I wouldn't exactly call it drilled.

Adam Dunn's face looks 10 lbs. lighter.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2012 -> 08:56 PM) What's wrong with him now? I think Wanne would say, "he's got a foot, he'll be fine."

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jun 14, 2012 -> 08:53 PM) whooa now, wasn't even thinking he was loafing. just sloooow Not yours, but there have been posts the last couple days saying he was loafing.