Dick Allen

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ May 10, 2012 -> 11:43 AM) Stopped reading after that part of the sentence. This is clearly not a contending team this year. Couple that with ridiculously awful attendance and there's no reason to "go for it" as you seem to be implying. You sell off expensive pieces at the deadline and get the biggest haul you can get. Unless Detroit gets it going, they have a shot. I like the Sox roster a lot more than Cleveland's.

QUOTE (balfanman @ May 10, 2012 -> 11:38 AM) So I'm not quite sure what is being implied here (again, not anyone in particular). Is it being said that we don't, for whatever reason deal with the Tigers....or Twins? 20 + years ago is a long time, different ownership, management, players, philosophies, etc. I would think that if a deal benefits both teams, who cares who it is your dealing with. Isn't the ultimate goal to help your own ballclub? Unless they are desperate, teams generally don't deal with other teams in their division very often, unless is a cellar dwellar dumping salary. The facts are its been 23 years since they dealt with Detroit and 26 years since they dealt with Minnesota, expecting that to change wouldn't make sense.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 10, 2012 -> 10:56 AM) OK, so I had to look it up... Talk irony. From baseball reference Detroit Tigers (view 36 trades) March 23, 1989: The Chicago White Sox traded Ken Williams to the Detroit Tigers for Eric King. And they weren't in the same division back then.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ May 10, 2012 -> 10:15 AM) Thank God the Red Sox and Yankees aren't the only teams in baseball then. The Sox, a fiscally conservative team, had no problem giving $4M to a fat guy with dreadlocks who may, or may not have been, Manny Ramirez. What's an ace worth? I'm sure the Orioles think Peavy would look good in that uniform. With their recent struggles, you think they're going to let $10M stand in the way of a serious play off push? Considering they had about 12k at a game the other night even though they have one of the best records in baseball............yes. You basically have to find a team that thinks $22 million or the Sox throwing in the $4 million buyout, $18 million for JFP in 2013 makes sense. You will find a team or teams who will take him. I doubt you're getting back anything significant player-wise in return. He's showing now what we all missed had he been healthy all along.

JFP has managed to shut up the people who wanted him to shut up.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:44 PM) And we have seen what happens to 3B with back problems... I just don't get how it goes from trade Paul Konerko to trade for Kevin Youkilis is less than one day.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:46 PM) The puzzling thing is how would pitching 3 times a week possibly throwing maybe 50 pitches during a week salvage his arm as opposed to a start with 100 pitches? Seems like a very fine line. He's pitching one inning at a time. Probably averages 17-18 pitches an inning. If he pitches 70 innings x 18 pitches, its 1260 pitches. If he averages 100 pitches a start, that's 13 starts, plus Stone mentioned in the bullpen he can be a 2 pitch pitcher and that will cut down the stress on his elbow as well. He's 23, Randy Johnson really wasn't anything but hot garbage until he was 25-26. Maybe if Sale fills out a little more and gets stronger, these issues won't be issues.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:42 PM) The Sox stopped this before it became something they needed to DL for. That is atypical. That is why no one can understand this. Usually the pitcher get injured before teams do something. The Sox stopped this before it got to that point. Which makes more sense than anything else anyone has offered.

Nothing screams WS here we come like a 3rd baseman hitting .219 with a .630 OPS who has been downsloping the past couple of years and is coming off an injury. Remember when trading for hurt players who had nice track records was bad. Trades like the Peavy deal?

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) DL stints are typical. Putting your BEST YOUNG STARTER in the bullpen out of the blue is atypical. Typical because its the injury you said by not DLing and just coming out and saying he's sore and needs to go to the bullpen him let the world know he was broken. But putting him on the DL and not telling anyone why would do nothing to his trade value. Its really NOT TYPICAL to put healthy players on the DL. Regarding Jesus Montero, if Seattle was aware of the health problem before the trade, they would be in a lot of trouble. First, the trade would be rescinded, then losing a couple draft picks and fines, then the little deal about no team wanting to deal with you again..........

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:30 PM) there was no speculation prior to our announcement. But he was supposed to start on Sunday. If that's skipped, you have to say something. If he goes on the DL which some are advocating, you have to say something.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 9, 2012 -> 02:22 PM) it was only all caps because fathom and i have been banging our heads against a wall saying the same thing for days. i'm just saying we didn't do our due diligence in assessing the situation completely before making a press statement about it. that's it. you honestly disagree with that statement? hell Chris didn't even know this was a possibility till they laid it on him. They did their "due dilligence", and here's where you are wrong. If they say nothing and Sale misses his start or goes on the DL and they again say nothing, how exactly is helping his "trade value"? Silence would have only made the speculation worse.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 9, 2012 -> 01:39 PM) will you stop. it's not a hilarious overreaction to say that taking our starter of the future and putting him permanently in the bullpen without a DL stint, MRI, or looking to trade him, was a horrible, horrible decision in every baseball sense. Obviously you have no scruples and would trade Sale if you thought he was hurt and would do everything you could to keep that information from your trading partner. Pulling crap like that gets you into a lot of trouble

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:57 PM) And you're not really in fear of potential revenue losses and the ballpark housing 50 people. Otherwise, you'd be on board with this. Morel has been god-awful for over 6 of 7 months since last year. Combine that with the track record of the White Sox and homegrown position players, yeah, that's enough. So yesterday losing Paul Konerko from the roster doesn't affect attendance, today adding a potential cooked Kevin Youkilis should add to the coffers, and that doesn't even account for the extra money you have to pick up. Make. Up. Your. Mind. As long as it isn't my money, I'm all for it. Youkilis is almost guaranteed to outperform Morel this year, but it isn't happening. If the Sox trade for Youkilis, everything they have ever said about finances (even though I still believe most ) is false, and not even ss2k5 will be able to say JR is talking straight when he says he isn't turning a big profit every year.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:48 PM) They're not going to win the WS. What's your point? You get rid of an overpaid set-up guy for a potential elite (at least offensively) 3B that you can let go after this year if you choose to. And more importantly, no more Brent Morel. I've seen enough of him to last a lifetime. He's one of the worst players I've seen in some time. The exact thing you fault the White Sox for doing is exactly what you are endorsing. You are not for a total rebuild. If you were, you would be able to take watching Morel look like Jose Contreras at the plate for more than a month. I would love to see it happen BTW even though I think Youkilis appears to be heading the wrong direction, but the reality is I don't see how this would make any sense to the White Sox, and it probably doesn't make sense to the Red Sox, although they appear to have a capable replacement and can use all the help they can get in the bullpen.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) Youk's numbers have taken a pretty big hit over the last few years. Let's just say it makes me wonder about what has changed in the last couple years in baseball that could make ones offensive numbers drop, and affect your health... if you know what I mean. Good point.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:43 PM) Everyone is discussing the merits of Youk way too seriously given this deal really should never happen. For more than a few reasons. If this was the 2011 White Sox, when they were "all in", it makes perfect sense, at least from their end.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) Yeah, but this would be a freebee. Peavy's coming off the books after this year. You just gonna sit on that money? Yesterday the Sox should trade Konerko, now Youkilis is a freebe? That would be rebuilding on the fly, the exact same thing you rip them for doing now. I'll use one of your lines, the White Sox aren't going to win a WS for the 2 years Youkilis has on his contract, he'd be a waste to pick up.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:36 PM) Jerry Owens =/= Kevin Youkilis The guy who took the struggling Youkilis' place has 7 extra base hits in 22 AB and an OPS over 1.400. Bobby V and Youkilis don't get along and Youkilis is starting to get banged up pretty regularly and his production is starting to drop. I think the Red Sox will dump him.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:27 PM) Everybody would. That would spell the end of Brent Morel. He's just terrible and I can't believe I fell for that September run. Never again. The White Sox do not do home-grown position players. If your for a total rebuild, picking up Youkilis makes zero sense. It makes the Sox a bit better, most likely costs them more money. Hurts their draft position and costs them money to be spend developing and signing players.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 9, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) Why do you make things up? Red Sox general manager Ben Cherington said Kevin Youkilis (back) will retain his job as the starting third baseman when he's healthy, despite the strong start for Middlebrooks (hamstring), the Boston Globe reports. I didn't make things up, that was the story yesterday. I'm sure glad the White Sox don't have the same policy or Jerry Owens would have been playing instead of Carlos Quentin in 2008.

Supposedly Youk is getting benched when he comes back. I would think the White Sox would have to assume the extra cash which gets Boston a little farther away from luxury tax territory. They might bite. I just don't see the White Sox taking on salary although he would most likely be a huge upgrade for the offense, and the Sox are a little heavy in LH relievers.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 9, 2012 -> 10:47 AM) That's where I think they could have done this better. Sale as a reliever in his draft year, that was fine, he'd already put in over 100 innings that year. But then 2011 should have been his buildup from that point - from 140 IP in 2010, to starting innings in 2011, which isn't a huge leap. Instead, they had him go down to 70 innings in 2011, and then try to push him up to full time. That was a mistake, IMO. MB only relieved for a half year, after starting in the minors, and threw 170 innings that year, before going to full time starting. Derek Lowe went from a closer to throwing 200 innings a year. CJ Wilson only threw 70 innings in one of 4 years then had back to back 200+ inning seasons. To say they hurt Sale by limiting his innings last season isn't necessarily true.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:49 AM) No. He had tommy john in 2000, and went to relief afterwards. His arm wasnt saved by going to relief, they chose to make him a reliever after his arm was damaged. Plus, in 2008 they moved him back to relief, and shortly after his shoulder blew up. Not the same situation at all. If none of the news came out and Sale remained in the rotation and hurt himself, the posters who now think its no big deal to keep him in the rotation and if he blows out his elbow its no big deal, would be up in arms. The Sox are trying to prevent Sale's elbow from being operated on. Smoltz got moved to the closer role because they thought it wouldn't tax his elbow as much. In relief he doesn't have to throw 4 pitches. That also saves his elbow.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 9, 2012 -> 08:28 AM) DA even you have to admit that this move was curious at best. When has a team ever moved a pitcher from starter to relief(closer, no less) as a result of a tender elbow? And when has that moved worked for the better? It just doesnt make sense, I dont see how one role is better than the other. One is stress on the arm for a long period of time(6-8 innings), the other is high stress on the arm in short doses, more frequently. I just dont see how that is expected to cure this tender elbow. John Smoltz. Its not curious at all. The White Sox want Sale to be a starter, but more importantly, they want him to pitch for them. They have the information, despite what some think, this isn't Ventura, or Cooper or even KW, just coming up with the idea. I'm sure there were plenty of meetings. He's an important part of the team moving forward. I rip the Sox as much as anyone. But sometimes ripping things make no sense considering they have ALL the information and we really have NONE.