Dick Allen

De Aza is showing his performance last season was no fluke. He's a pretty good hitter.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 7, 2012 -> 12:59 PM) Well we don't get the perfect game Phil Humber today. Aside from the perfect game, Humber has looked like a waiver claim this year.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ May 7, 2012 -> 12:40 PM) Strike two to Dunn was bogus. At least he kept his streak alive and has now doubled the previous record to begin the season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 11:40 AM) How deep is the Rays' starting rotation, vis a vis the White Sox? How deep is their minor league system, vis a vis the White Sox? Where are they in the standings? Whatever they're doing, it's seeming to work, since they've been in the playoffs year after year after year in the toughest division in MLB. Their major league rotation isn't going to suffer as a result because they have the depth to cover it up or make a trade. What team's going to give us another Chris Sale for $12 million worth in commitment to Matt Thornton? Not likely. Whereas the Rays still have the ability to trade Wade Davis and get a nice return because everyone knows he doesn't have the structural/mechanical flaws. Then they should have traded him correct? The second he moved to the bullpen his value plummeted. You have taught me well. I must say I am just shocked you don't believe Don Cooper can develop a #5 starter in the next couple of seasons. And just so you know, every team knew about Sale's potential issues. Its the only reason the Sox had a chance to draft him. Also, since the Sox had the #5 starter instead of Sale yesterday, for that game to be a win, Sale would have had to thrown a shutout. Highly unlikely. There's one start the Sox are better off he's in the bullpen.

It is funny Texas and Tampa were brought up as 2 examples of how to build a bullpen considering each has down something that is supposedly taboo to Soxtalk. Feliz was the closer for Texas when he should have been stretching out his arm in AAA to start, and Tampa has made the curious decision to move Wade Davis, once a top 40 prospect peaking at #17, which I believe is higher than Sale ever peaked, from the rotation to the bullpen thus killing his value.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:56 AM) Your pledge not to bring up Greg Walker lasted less than 24 hours. (Are you like Greg, where you're more a fan of personnel/coaches no longer currently associated with the White Sox? I'm starting to think you would rather the whole White Sox offense tanked this entire season if it would give you more support for your Manto attacks.) Please support the Fathom Pledge, no Walk Talk. But know this about Ken Williams: He believes in his heart that he has at least two, maybe three or four, young starting pitchers who can become the next generation of John Danks/Gavin Floyd. He loves right-hander Nestor Molina, who came from Toronto for Sergio Santos, and also lefty Jose Quintana, who signed a major-league contract after the Yankees allowed him to become a minor-league free agent. He’s also open to the idea of Simon Castro and Pedro Hernandez (both acquired from San Diego for Carlos Quentin) becoming long-term pieces of the White Sox’s pitching staff, not to mention the homegrown Cameron Bayne. For the moment, that’s your starting rotation at Double-A Birmingham. But those guys -- not the fill-ins like Eric Stults and Dylan Axelrod -- are closer to Chicago than you might think. www.chicagotribune.com/sports Whoever believes for a second in what Phil Rogers just wrote there (clearly spin from Rongey/Merkin/Williams) should have their head examined. What pledge. I understand the Sox WS hopes this season and next and for the foreseeable future hinged on Chris Sale making 32 starts a season, but it wasn't going to happen. Get it through your head. Rogers is no spin, he and KW do not get along, and he's ripped KW more than I have.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:49 AM) If it's going to provide Steven Strasburg-esque results in 2014, better than what we're going to get from our 4th-5th starters in 2012 and 2013. What if it provides Francisco Liriano results or Joey Zumaya? If it did, you would be complaining, as Frank Thomas says, no doubt about it. If it was so cut and dried that everyone would return the same or stronger and would never have another elbow issue again, teams would make pitchers have the surgery the day they were signed.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:43 AM) Why are you guys talking about 2005? That was a lifetime ago. It's 2012. The game has changed. Young, cheap STARTING pitching under contractual control is what's vogue now. The Sox have nothing in this department now. Apparently a good chunk of Soxtalk thinks rehabbing pitchers are the next big thing and really want that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:44 AM) Check out the White Sox BAA coming into this past weekend? 1st in the American League. Better than the Rangers, Rays, Yankees, Angels, Mariners, A's, Red Sox, Blue Jays, etc. Yet they are under .500. Even with their anemic offense, even though the poison is no longer in the organization, they still could be in first place, but the dime a dozen closer hasn't worked out.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:40 AM) Horseshoes and hand grenades, Dick. If if if they'd only signed Kenny Rogers that offseason instead of letting him go to the Twins. If if if the White Sox had kept Thome away from the Twins in 2010 and signed him instead of Jones/Kotsay. If if if the Sox had signed Victor Martinez instead of Adam Dunn coming into 2011. If if if Rick Hahn's son's coin flip when the other way, then KW would be out of a job, Game 163 would have been a loss and a major disappointment. No, Keith Foulke was traded by KW. If he wasn't, the Sox win the division in 2003, Ozzie never becomes the White Sox manager, and perhaps never a manager. It was a watershed moment.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:37 AM) You're really going to compare that Reds' team with this White Sox team? Now who's the one who is drinking? Molina, Stewart, Hernandez, Santiago etc., have been either in our system for less than one full season or starters for barely more time than that. But what Greg Walker couldn't manage to change in a decade can be undone in a matter of days and weeks by Cooper, that's not a completely impossible standard. And it helps to have guys with major league TALENT and ABILITY to develop. And since when is PHT the Slam Section? I voted for Obama, but I bet I could find 100 times since he has been president that he's flip-flopped his position. Bill Clinton was famous for it. And, what have I changed my position on exactly? For the whole offseason, I consistently supported Kenny Williams against the likes of Marty34. You will see no wavering, go through every single thread if you'd like. Now, I have thrown in the towel. As opposed to Romney, if Obama came out for protecting the American flag from being burned by protestors, Romney would come out for flag burning the next day. I think you might have lost your mind. Ripping Greg Walker again. Check out the Braves offense.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:32 AM) Danny Wright 1-7, 6.15 ERA Josh Stewart 1-2, 5.96 ERA Mike Porzio, 1-1, 6.43 ERA Neal Cotts, 1-1, 8.10 ERA 4-11 So, you're going to tell me that Dylan Axelrod, Stults, Simon Castro, Pedro Hernandez, Santiago and Nestor Molina are going to be a significant improvement there?? I think they are capable of putting up the same numbers El Duque put up in 2005. If Keith Foulke was the Sox closer in 2003, I think they would have won the division.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:24 AM) The point ALSO is that having an ELITE/SUPERSTAR/NASTY BOYS/WORLD-BEATING bullpen does you absolutely no good with a so-so starting rotation on a rebuilding team. What, is Mel Allen going to give us bonus points from the grave for leading the Rolaids Relief Team Bullpen stat in 2012? That's kind of like the Cubs' "attendance trophy" every season. Then keep Sale in the rotation, let him blow out his elbow and watch what caulfield aka Mitt Romney complains about then. Also, the nasty boys won a WS and we have Don Cooper to develop a #5 starter. Shouldn't be too tough, the 2005 #5 starter had a 5.12 ERA

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) How many times did the White Sox go the playoffs from 2001-2004 when they had no credible 5th starter? Why should there be any reason to believe that would change now? You're telling me our hitting on this team is significantly better than those years? I think not. So why would there be any reason (other than sheer blind luck) for a White Sox historical pattern to reverse itself in the next 12-24 months? They had a great shot in 2003 if they had a better closer than Billy Koch, the actually were in 1st place the middle of September,and btw, their 5th starter at the begining of 2003 that year was the All Star game starter. 2004, they were right there, at least for a playoff berth, but did lose Maggs and the Big Hurt. 2005 their 5th starter was El Duque who was lucky to even make the postseason roster. Not exactly reliable.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:18 AM) The White Sox have $95 million in commitments to their rotation. The Rangers are committed to JUST $45 million for Feldman, Lewis, N. Feliz, Harrison and Holland. EFFICIENCY. Plus, with all the money pouring in, they just had $108 million sitting around in their coffers to throw at Darvish. We are talking about the bullpen. Get a grip. The argument is bullpens are a dime a dozen, that you shouldn't waste pitchers with talent by putting them in the bullpen. Does anyone not get Sale can't handle the rotation physically?

I guarantee if none of this news came out and Sale continued to pitch in the rotation and blew out his elbow, at least 95% of the people crying about his move to the bullpen would be up in arms at the White Sox for allowing his injury to occur. That includes the people who think right now he should continue to start until his elbow blows up.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:14 AM) Just smart spending, Dick Allen. Nathan=$14.75 million for 2 years Matt Thornton=$12 million for 2 years (considering they're getting a closer and we're getting a set-up guy, seems they're getting the better deal) Total money invested into Feldman, Darvish, Harrison, Holland, Colby Lewis and N. Feliz=$153 million (2/3rd's to Yu Darvish, roughly) That's really scraping together a bullpen with dime a dozen pitchers.

Would people rather have a lockdown closer or today's version of Francisco Liriano? Liriano is a starter so I guess he's far more valuable if you know baseball according to some.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 7, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) but dude, we've had elite 7-8-9 guys for YEARS and you know what? they're always DIFFERENT GUYS because they're good one year or 2 years and then flame out after that. relievers are a dime a dozen. I promise you this. beyond Mo, Hoffman, .... and that's it... name me a closer who DIDN'T lose his job as closer at some point in his career. Those two guys are the exception to the very, very clear RULE that closers are NOT WORTH THE MONEY they get paid. and yes, I'll point you to Tampa and Texas as two teams with great scrapped together bullpens. JUST LIKE WE WERE IN 2005! Which of those guys is still a MLB pitcher? Texas spent a ton of cash for Joe Nathan.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ May 7, 2012 -> 09:51 AM) You've got the elites: Mariano, Joe Nathan from '04 through '09, Billy Wagner, Eric Gagne for a couple years, etc. But putting together a competent bullpen is by far the easiest component to piecemeal together for a franchise. The Rays have done it for like 5 years now. It also can fail miserably and then you are totally screwed. You can have a great offense and great starters, if you're bullpen is bad, you're in a lot of trouble. As Gonzo wrote this morning, Sale and Reed could be Gossage and Forster part II. Not bad, especially considering how important a good bullpen is these days.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 7, 2012 -> 08:30 AM) i'm glad someone understands baseball. Good releivers are not a dime a dozen, and if you don't understand that, you don't understand baseball. How many games have the Sox blown so far this short season without having a true closer? Ask Boston fans about dime a dozen relief pitchers. There aren't a lot of perrenial good ones, but Sale and Reed look like they could be.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 7, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) lol it wasn't doing that in spring training. it moved like a beast back then. The only movement its been getting since the games started counting is its moving into the bleachers.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 6, 2012 -> 07:08 PM) he should be starting, and learning not to tip his screwball. if he does that, he'll be fine. He should be working on his screwball trying to get it to do something, or scrap it all together. It is not tipping the screwball, its what the ball is actually doing and that is nothing except getting hit hard.

QUOTE (JorgeFabregas @ May 6, 2012 -> 05:48 PM) Stults for the start, Quintana for the pen: http://www.southsidesox.com/2012/5/6/30035...ck-to-charlotte Another lefty for the pen? When will Crain be ready to go?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ May 6, 2012 -> 05:30 PM) The thing that bothers me is this: when has a pitcher ever been fixed/healed by being sent to the pen? To me, this is like Rose and his knee. If his elbow is going to blow, it is going to blow. Babying him isn't going to help it. I would rather him take a few weeks off and come back to the rotation and see if the pain comes back. If it comes back, aggressive treatment and a doctor andrews visit. Going to the pen to me is just silly. Its being assumed that there is nothing that needs fixing now, but if they continue on the same path, something real bad will happen. He might still get hurt, but its probably safe to assume his chances of avoiding the knife is best served coming out of the bullpen. The White Sox have more information than we have. They also would rather have Sale as a starter than reliever. They didn't make this decision on a whim.