Dick Allen

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:17 PM) You know what's really scary? What if he's a lousy closer? It was a pleasure to watch him start and completely make me forget bout Mark. It's hard to be a fan of this team. I don't see that happening unless his soreness gets worse. People have a tough time hitting him when he's at 91. He'll probably get it cranked back up around 100 in a little bit and the opposition will look like Morel.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:09 PM) I didn't see it being that clear, but maybe I missed a quote. The other side of this is, of course, if he simply can't do starter innings - which is possible - then this scenario works anyway. Where did anyone with the Sox say this was permanent, anyway? Not trying to be obnoxious, I really just don't know. No one said permanent, but if he's in the bullpen the rest of this season, it doesn't make much sense to have him try starting again next season and expect differnt results. I think the Sox don't believe he can do starter innings. So this makes sense. What makes no sense is the argument, not by you, that he not starting on a full time basis in Charlotte last season is the cause of this condition.

26 games in a row to start the season, striking out in each game now for Dunn. The old record was 14 and lasted 49 years.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:57 PM) I can't believe I'm the only one who seems to be OK with this, but... I am. This year - as everyone knows - is a rebuilding year, whether they call it that or not. They definitely want Sale to be a future starter on this club. So, if he's feeling a bit tender with the new load, this makes perfect sense to me. As long as he isn't injured, and really is just sore getting stretched out, then this makes perfect sense to me. Shutting him down wouldn't be a good idea, because you still want him to build up some innings and add strength. This way, he can do that, with less risk of turning soreness into an actual injury. Also, I agree with this... As we look at 2013, this is an audition for Axelrod. Either as trade bait, or maybe even as a part of the future rotation. Giving Sale say, a month, closing, then putting him back into the rotation, seems perfectly smart to me. And with guys like Peavy and Humber not stretched out to starting innings, and a guy like Axelrod in the rotation (as much as I like him, he's still got risk to fail), there will almost certainly be a chance for him to start again as the season goes on. That way, he gets closer to starting innings this year, and ideally is ready for 2013 to be a full time starter. Obviously I'd rather he wasn't sore at all and could keep going, but that isn't the reality. So as long as he isn't hurt, this seems like the best move to me. Flame on. I'm OK with it, but a couple of things, he's the closer for the rest of the season, at least that is what CSN reported Ventura said. If he's the closer the rest of this season, I would think that would mean, he's probably considered a reliever by the White Sox from now on.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:47 PM) A #1 starter is more important than a closer. The Sox aren't going to pay a pitcher more than Danks for the forseeable future so where they will find one is anybody's guess. A #1 starter gets you 190+ innings a year. I think there's very legitmate concern Sale will never be able to do that. He has #1 stuff in my mind, but the question has always been how will he hold up? I think a tender elbow after 32 innings have the Sox freaked out, so they are going to go with the the scenerio that will most likely give Sale, and therefore the team, the most sustained success.

QUOTE (iamshack @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:45 PM) I tend to agree...I don't think this has anything to do with the innings he's thrown this year..I think it's just a coincidence....there are all sorts of questions regarding Sale's ability to hold up as a starter that have nothing to do with whether or not he came out of the pen last year or not. All I know is this has me befuddled...our pen is not in such a shape nor are we at any point in the season where there is enough urgency to put him in the closer role if they are truly concerned about him being currently seriously injured...why not just shut him down and re-evaluate? The other thing is now there are 4 lefties. Rivera getting hurt, maybe Thornton is heading to NY.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:37 PM) Sale (as a starter) was the shining star of hope for this team. They are 29th in attendance because there is such little hope. Now that Sale is back to close . . . Maybe they will sell more tickets if Sale is as important to ticket sales as you believe. Most games he doesn't take the field, now there will usually be a chance to see him pitch. Personally I don't think Sale means anything to attendance. Most people who attend a game only because he's going to pitch are probably on his pass list anyway.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:29 PM) That's pretty much the definition of the "Verducci effect". So say Wow all you want. You don't "Get yourself ready to throw as many innings in 2 months as you threw all of last year" by working out in the offseason. He's tender after ONE MONTH of real games. He was such an injury concern he slipped down to the Sox when he was drafted. Its supposedly voodoo to draft a closer in the first round, but the way the game is played, the closer is about as important to winning as almost anybody. He'll be the closer, and if he stays healthy, probably one of the best in baseball. That will be a lot better than many of the teams will get from players they picked while passing on him.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:31 PM) Exactly. The Sox drafted a closer. The flip side of this argument is if Sale had started in the minors maybe he would have hurt his arm before he got to MLB. I think that's the most likely scenerio.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:27 PM) When I read the title of this thread I hoped it was a Tony La Russa decision. Anyway, Kenny's toast. It may be hard to believe, I want KW gone as much as you do, but Chris Sale with a tender elbow being made a closer is going to get him fired about as much as the churro stand selling stale churros would get him fired.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:24 PM) I said it last year and still believe it: if you're supposedly "All In", you don't leave your best bullpen arm in AAA. If it wasted a year of development fine, but if you go into the season expecting to compete then he is on the roster. I agree. The reason Sale was available when the Sox picked him was the worry that what went down today was going to happen and probably be even worse news. He has been an injury concern since day 1. Let him become a HOF closer. There's no shame in that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:22 PM) There's a big difference though between having your arm ready to throw 70 innings in a year and throwing those 70 innings in March and April. He spent the winter getting himself prepared for the role. He is hurting already. If you really think the reason he is sore now is because he didn't pitch 150 innings last season in Charlotte and would have had no problems doing that and if he did, be well on his way to 175-200 IP this year, all I can say is WOW.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 05:02 PM) I'm pretty sure I can go back and find myself having some serious "I told you so"'s on this one and the decision to put Sale in the pen last year. He got hurt after 32 innings. There's a pretty good chance if he did what some wanted him to do last year, start at Charlotte, he would have had issues as well. The question was always how will he hold up.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 4, 2012 -> 09:02 AM) Except for Marty, nobody's calling for KW's head. We're 29th in MLB attendance right now and extrapolated out at the same pace, we'd end up with the worst attendance figures of the KW Era (2002, just over 1.6 million) and the worst for New Comiskey except for 1998 and 1999. But I don't see MOST of the fanbase in a panic. The hardcore fans are aware that there's some patience required...and have to look no further than the Northside for evidence of this fact. That parallel project alone gives KW some added breathing room, but it is frustrating because if he had built a consistent winner and a couple of more playoff teams, we'd be a in much better position vis a vis the Cubs than we are now. I'm calling for KWs head. Its been time to go for a while now, Ozzie acts like a 3 year old, KW acted like he was about 8 in that relationship., but if they didn't can him after last year, I can't see how they would can him no matter what the result this season. You can't cut payroll as much as they did and expect a contender from the GM.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 3, 2012 -> 06:30 PM) What is your definition of talent? tal·ent/ˈtalənt/ Noun: 1.Natural aptitude or skill. 2.A person or people possessing such aptitude or skill:

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 3, 2012 -> 06:19 PM) Solid post as usual, Dick. I knew you would appreciate it. Got to get rid of anyone with talent. The only problem with getting rid of players with talent, if you get players with equal talent, you'll have to move them along too. Trading guys at their "peak value" means you are never really playing to win. Its a great philosophy.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ May 3, 2012 -> 04:56 PM) I'd rather it was Beckham sitting instead of Morel. Why is that? I don't understand the Morel over Beckham people at all. As bad as Beckham has been this year, he has looked a lot better at the plate than Morel. Morel is younger, a whole 7 months, but has had one good month at the major league level. Beckham had a nice stretch in 2009 and the second half of 2010. Defensively, its a wash at best for the Morel people. I guess my thinking is if you think Beckham is garbage, don't you have to think the same of Morel?

I agree with Marty, if you're 23 and haven't established yourself as a perrenial all star and future HOFer, its time to move on to something else. What are the White Sox thinking?

QUOTE (fathom @ May 2, 2012 -> 09:52 PM) Sure, let him start the inning. But putting him in there against a guy who's so much better against righties than lefties, it just gave him no wiggle room. If Addison Reed isn't ready to get Jack Hannahan out, he's not ready to be a closer.

So everyone wants Reed closing but is upset Robin put him in versus a LH hitter? If he's closer material, he should be able to get lefties out.

Stewart has looked decent lately.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ May 2, 2012 -> 09:45 PM) The White Sox had a chance to sell Matt Thornton. Much like they had a chance to sell Bobby Jenks. They did not sell Bobby Jenks and wound up getting nothing for him. They have yet to sell Matt Thornton, and they will wind up getting nothing for him as well. Because he gave up a home run?

QUOTE (Jake @ May 2, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) It's not so much that he can't jump, it's just much more difficult than it looks to time it properly and jump from the correct place Michael Jordan in his prime wouldn't have grabbed this one, but sticking a piece of paper under Rios during his "leap" would have been difficult.

Thornton looks like Josey Wales with the beard.

Alex Rios is 6'5". It doesn't appear he can dunk.