Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:31 AM) The problem is that RISK-TAKING IS NOT FOR THE FIRST ROUND. You spend overslot once you have your guaranteed guys and you roll the dice in the 2nd/3rd/4th/5th-10th on high risk/high reward guys like Trayce Thompson or Mitchell. You go out and get a Rick Porcello instead of spending that money on Manny Ramirez, Mark Teahen or Jason Frasor. Go back to that draft on google, and tell me who they should have selected instead of Sale. You will have a definite advantage as you can select ANY player from the 2010 draft picked after the "wasted selection of Sale". Give me that name, you will have the advantage of being able to determine 2 years worth of development, I will take Sale the releiver, you can have your selection and I will bet you whatever you would like to bet that 5 years from now, Sale was the better pick.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:09 AM) What starters will they be closing out any wins for this season besides Jake Peavy (and after he's traded to save cash, who then)? Starters are 5-10X more important than relievers on rebuilding teams. And taking Sale out of the starting rotation means we're 100% in full rebuild now. No going back. Santos was the first move, albeit idiotic. Signing Danks long-term makes even LESS sense now than it did when Sale was going to be a fixture in the rotation for years to come. And Ventura doesn't even trust Reed, FWIW. If Don Copper is the miracle worker you continously claim he is, finding a starter to take Sale's innings should be pretty easy. The fact is, Sale was going to be removed from the rotation in July or August even in the best cast scenerio.What has Don Cooper done with John Danks? Sale, even if he's going to be used in the bullpen his entire career, was the best player on the board when the Sox drafted him. Look at the guys picked after him and tell me who is a better fit? The Cubs picked a college starter 3 picks later who has a 6.00 ERA for his career and he isn't out of A ball yet.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 5, 2012 -> 08:03 AM) hahahaha this MAKES HIM A WASTED DRAFT PICK! you don't draft closers in the first damn round and rush them to the major leagues. you just don't. and if all those other teams saw it and Kenny Williams DIDN'T, well then he deserves to be gone. Last straw, camels back, all that. and you know what? TJ surgery wouldn't ruin his career. go take a look at mr. Strasburg's stats and get back to me. First off, how do you know he was headed to Tommy John surgery? We don't even know what's wrong with him exactly. If Sale spends his career closing and does well, you may call him a wasted pick, and you may say you don't draft closers in the first round, but you will also see the vast majority of teams, some who passed on Sale and some who picked in the first round after he was off the board, would have been far better off if Chris Sale, closer, was their draft choice. Even if he need the TJ surgery and missed a year or so, why would that be the end of it? Do you see his motion? He was a top 3 pick that draft except for the injury concern. Here are the White Sox first round picks since Larry Himes stopped drafting stars. You will see some wasted draft picks. He's already been more productive than 90% and his career has just begun. 2010 Chris Sale LHP Florida Gulf Coast University 13 2009 Jared Mitchell OF LSU 23 2008 Gordon Beckham SS Univ. of Georgia 8 2007 Aaron Poreda LHP San Francisco 25 2006 Kyle McCulloch RHP Texas 29 2005 Lance Broadway RHP TCU 15 2004 Josh Fields 3B Oklahoma State 18 2003 Brian Anderson OF U. of Arizona 15 2002 Roger Ring LHP San Diego State 18 2001 Kris Honel RHP Providence HS, New Lenox, 16 2000 Joe Borchard OF Camarillo, CA 12 1999 Jason Stumm RHP Centralia, WA 15 1999 Matt Ginter RHP Mississippi State U. 22 1998 Robert Wells RHP Baylor U. 16 1997 Jason Dellaero SS U of South Florida 15 1996 Bobby Seay LHP Sarasota, FL 12 1995 Jeff Liefer 3B Long Beach State U 25 1994 Mark Johnson C Warner Robbins, GA 26 1993 Scott Christman LHP Oregon State U 17 1992 Eddie Pearson 3B Bishop St JC 24 1991 Scott Ruffcorn RHP Baylor U 25

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 5, 2012 -> 07:59 AM) Because our two best young pitchers (Reed and Sale) are more or less worth (at least to our genius GM) one Nestor Molina. Maybe not even Molina, because we just raised a giant RED (not white this time) FLAG for all to see for any team who was potentially intrigued by acquiring him for something decent. And, because we have no hope of contending with our rotation from here on out this season. Other than that, everthing's great. The Sox can have Sale close and Reed work in the 7th and 8th innings. You're making no sense BTW. You claim the Sox need Sale in the rotation to be any good, yet you seem more concerned with what other teams would be interested in giving up to acquire him. Who cares what other teams value him at? Closers are extremely valuable. The giant RED FLAG would have been Chris Sale undergoing surgery.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 4, 2012 -> 11:25 PM) If he has a bad arm, he has a bad arm. Shut him down and keep him at starter. How the hell will all the work a closer does help his arm?? Stone went over this last night. As a starter he throws 4 or 5 different pitches. He really only needs to throw 2 as a closer. Its hard to understand how people can be up in arms the White Sox have decided to protect one of their players. Doesn't everyone realize the White Sox would rather keep him in the rotation and have him throw 200 innings every year? The bottom line is they don't think, like many other teams thought, he'll be able to hold up, and pushing it to find out for sure could ruin the kid's career. Let him be a great closer. Its not a wasted draft pick.

QUOTE (knightni @ May 5, 2012 -> 04:09 AM) Javy Vazquez cost Chris Young. No Chris Young, they were forced to struggle with Anderson in CF, then trade away Gio Gonzalez for Swisher because he sucked as a CF and in the clubhouse. Then they gave away Swisher for scraps. Following, they needed a CF still, so they wasted a bunch of money acquiring Rios' contract. They traded Richard to SD to get a big salary SP Peavy who ended up being hurt for 2.5 seasons. They wanted Adam Dunn because Rios wasn't a good enough hitter, they dealt Dan Hudson and David Holmberg to Arizona for Edwin Jackson because Rizzo wanted a vet SP instead of a rookie. Then, Rizzo backed out of the trade and the White Sox ended up giving him a 1st round pick free next year and signed Dunn to a deal. Rios, Peavy, and Dunn were so expensive that they couldn't re-sign their biggest fan draw - Mark Buehrle - and their attendance has plummeted. So, they lost Young, Gonzalez, Richard, Hudson, Holmberg, a #1 and Buehrle. They got Zach Stewart, Tyler Flowers, Brent Lillibridge, and three albatross contracts. This is pretty good, and most likely at least 80% true. I blame the entire Dunn contract on listening to Ozzie concerning the DH position and not signing Thome to a $1 million contract in 2010. Not only did it lead to overpaying for Dunn, it also led to paying Manny Ramirez 4 times what it would have taken to sign Thome for one month and 2 RBI . KW has made some really bad decisions the past few seasons. He does need to go but he's not the reason the Sox lost last night. Letting Peavy face Cabrera wasn't wise. That cost a run. Thornton gave up a broken bat hit, and then a bad mistake on 0-2 where Peralta lit a line drive out of one of the few areas you can hit a line drive out of Comerica Park.

QUOTE (winninguglyin83 @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:36 PM) Sale closing? Kidding. Let Thornton finish. Santiago has seen his last ninth inning for awhile. He'll pitch the ninth at home with the game out of hand either way.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:33 PM) I've always hated when a manager asks his pitcher if he wants to stay in or come out. Yes. If you have to ask, the question has already been answered.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:34 PM) I can't believe you guys preferred a reliever to Peavy there. He was out of gas facing one of the best hitters of the past 20 years who has seen his pitches 3 times previously tonight.

QUOTE (JoshPR @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:31 PM) Nice game Jake, time to shower It was time to shower several minutes earlier. Hopefully it won't coast the Sox a win and hopefully Robin learned something there.

I don't agree with this.

QUOTE (K-Rock @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:24 PM) De Aza doesn't look real comfortable in CF. Is this really better than him in right and Rios in center? Yes.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:05 PM) This is a completely different team on the road. Why is that? I think its sample size.

Nice DP turn. If I was the manager JFP would be done for the night.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ May 4, 2012 -> 08:02 PM) And THAT is why Morel is on this team! It is why he's on the team. If he was average defensively, he'd be somewhere else, probably with a lot smaller paycheck.

He looks so much better at the plate. His bat isn't still. His hands look a little higher. Hopefully, he can go on a run and never look back. Its quite obvious he has the talent to be a real nice player.

QUOTE (jeffro2525 @ May 4, 2012 -> 07:56 PM) Getting less mad about Gordon's baserunning blunder lastnight... It was a blunder but Rios was standing on 3rd base at the time. They both screwed up.

Send him to Charlotte.

That's my man, Beckham.

Viciedo is really starting to look good. I'm crediting Marty's thread.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:35 PM) Listening to Hawk, it sounds like he's never going to be a starter again. That's what I was thinking. I don't see how this can be anything but permanent or moving him there would really not make any sense. Stone made the point that as a closer, he won't throw as many types of pitches which will help him as well.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:31 PM) And they're outdrawing us by 2,900 per game. The fans there seem more genuinely excited about that team of unknowns (see the Mets series this week) than Sox fans do about theirs. Despite having arguably a worse team, the Cubs might end up nearly doubling our attendance this season. Sox attendance will pick up some. They don't have the base they used to have, but April has been chilly, it was the first time in 109 years March was warmer than April in Chicago.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:26 PM) With the way everything else is going in this organization, we might as well pretend without Greg Walker around that Brent Lillibridge has reverted to the 2009-2010 version, too. Probably more realistic than thinking Brent Lillibridge is a good hitter. Last year he hit some home runs. Chances of him hitting them at that clip are nil. He still strikes out with Dunn-like frequency.

QUOTE (fathom @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:16 PM) De Aza's now 3-27 vs LHP this year. Too bad there's no one on the bench we could use in his place...oh wait Lillibridge is 0-6

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 4, 2012 -> 06:18 PM) I'd still say it makes plenty of sense to me. The usual rule of thumb with a pitcher is that you want to increase his innings by 25 a year. Dropping them in half and then trying to push them back up is completely the opposite. He's still 40 short of last season. Your argument is beyond flawed. Quit patting yourself on the back. If Sale started at Charlotte, he most likely would have had the same issues if not worse.