Dick Allen

Now Rios homers down 5 in the 9th.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:20 PM) Everyone has to remember that with the current revenue structure in baseball, the White Sox enjoy a significant advantage in being able to ramp up the payroll quickly when it's necessary or justified. 2005 showed you can win the World Series with a $65 million dollar payroll. It's when we spent $90-$130 million on the payroll since then that the team's lost its hunger a bit, drive, desire, whatever you want to call it. I think you're seeing the same thing happening with the Twins. You don't want a team of all "cast-offs" trying to prove themselves to the world (the Carl Everetts and AJ's and El Duque's and Pods and Hermansons), but you have to have a little bit of a chip on your shoulder...mixed with a younger core of players hitting their prime and the veteran leadership. With the broadcasting and ancillary revenues, advertising/marketing advantages in Chicago...it's not just about parking/concessions/souvenirs/ticket sales. That's just one stream these days, and over time, becoming less and less important with the Regional Sports Networks and WGN/superstations. A rebuilding effort is fine if it leads to a championship caliber team for 3+ years. What's not fine is being the Royals/Pirates/Mariners/Padres/Marlins/Nationals/Orioles (although with their two marquee draftees healthy, they could be dangerous). Cleveland and Colorado had similar fan support in the 90's and early 00's. Look how both franchises have done since then. The Rockies reinvented their organization and the fans have come back, especially with the 2007 season. The other problem is if you want to develop young players while not winning, you're not getting any free agents unless you totally outbid other teams. You'll have to give Jayson Werth-like contracts to Jayson Werth-like players, and they have some young guys chances are even if the Sox had the first pick in the draft wouldn't be able to get a comparable player. Sox fans don't have the patience to go through a 2 or 3 week stretch of bad baseball. 4 or 5 years minimum of it, and I think SS2k5 may be on to something if its full blown, and most will walk away until they can buy playoff tickets again.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:56 PM) I picked 20 years on purpose. The late 80s into the early 90's were horrible years where the teams sucked and no one went to the games. Sox fans are already infamous for being bandwagon fans, and if all of the players got traded off, it isn't a big leap of faith to expect crowds to drop back into Cleveland Indians range because there is a history of it on the southside. Heck people are already swearing off going to games. Can you imagine that minus all of the star players, and a couple of ninety loss seasons later? I have history on my side. YOU have your feelings. 1990-1994 was a pretty good stretch to be a Sox fan. 1995 sucked, and the strike really hurt attendance. 1996 wasn't bad, 1997-1999 was a rebuilding, although Belle and Thomas were in the middle of the line up in 97 and 98, and they had guys like Thomas and Ordonez and Lee already in the organization. 2000 was a surprise. 2001-2004 weren't bad, but always dissappointing, 2005 magical. 2006-2010 basically the same as 2001-2004 Since JR took over, the only real horrid extended stretch was 1986-1989, which according to my source, was the last time White Sox partners were issed a cash call. I'm with you on a total rebuild. It really makes little sense.

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:23 PM) FWIW the sox scouts believe Flowers has made major adjustments and will get the majority of at bats at catcher in 2012. Now I understand if you don't have much faith in the scouting staff right now hitting .239 with 18 strikeouts in 46 ABs doesn't inspire confidence.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:20 PM) f*** it, put Dunn or Viciedo in LF and DH the other one. Get some offense in the lineup instead of playing NL style bulls***. I agree.

This is about as bad as I have ever seen the Sox look.

At least the Sox didn't sign D Lee this offseason. He really looks Dunn, I mean done.

2 broken bat hits and a strikeout, 1 run in, runners on 1st and 3rd, nobody out. This is little league.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) Take a seat AJ! He is SO f***ING HORRIBLE! Boers and Bernstein continue to predict he won't last the whole season without getting released. B and B are incorrect. They are paying him $2 million this year and $6 million next. He's not getting released.

QUOTE (TitoMB @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 08:12 PM) Glad to see we demoted Thornton. Bad to see he still sucks. He broke the guy's bat.

If anything, hopefully these 2 games, (I know small sample size) show Sox upper management if for some reason Ozzie is replaced, Cora is just more of the same only not as obnoxious, and without an idiot son.

Is there a reason the Sox are leaving all their LH hitters in to face a lefty? I could understand Dunn.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:43 PM) He looks dreadful, and is even being squeezed a bit. It's unfathomable that the Sox don't have a run yet. They will be scoring here.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) It wasn't a great swing, but it's a hit 95% of the time. It was just unlucky that Andino made a great play on it. Jam shots and ground balls up the middle happen all the time. If that ball got through, I gaurentee people would say "There ya go Alex! Finally". But no, so instead it's extreme negativity. This board is seriously the biggest downer. Can't wait to get drunk tonight and not be depressed by this s***. It's more depressing here than it is watching this team play. It really wasn't a spectacular play by the SS. With the exception of the first half of last season, Alex Rios has been an awful player for the Sox. Not average, not below average, not bad.............awful.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:32 PM) Cue the "well the Cardinals and Rockies and about 3 other teams in major league history came back from being 8 games under .500" If it was an NFL season, it would be only 2-3 games, if NBA/NHL, only 14 games and the equivalent of a 6-8 record. ETC. I'm going to be tired of hearing about that 26-5 streak from last year being the reason to be patient...or the Twins being in the same position. They're in just as much, if not more, trouble than the White Sox going forward. Even Greg Walker would mess up Roy Hobbs or Josh Hamilton. They probably don't have a 25-5 streak, that doesn't happen often, but last year, even with their awful start, they were only 1 over .500 the last 2 months of the season, so without a 25-5, there is time to make up ground. Its Cleveland they are chasing. Right now its only a week or 2 of decent baseball and Cleveland hitting reality and they are right there. Every loss makes you wonder if they will ever play well, but they will.

If Rios is injured, he should sit. If he's just this bad, he should sit.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:15 PM) This scene is almost written for a triple play to occur. 2 out of 3.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 07:08 PM) This organization would never do a true rebuild though like what Cleveland and Tampa had to do. Too much money being a Chicago market team to suffer like those teams did. Even JR said they would be bad for a few years if he chose the rebuild route this past winter. I think it would be more than a few.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 06:55 PM) People will reply that if we undergo a rebuilding effort the crowds will go away and our payroll will sink. Yes, that's true -- but also, at the point when we're fielding a good team, with a whole new set of names, they will return. If there's any one thing you can say, without question, that has been absent this last decade it's a contributing minor league system. Having a 90 loss team shouldn't be the push needed to address this issue, but they'll never learn otherwise. If people can't take a 10-17 start, there is no way they will be able to stand years of no chance when the season begins, and there is zero guarantee if the White Sox organization focused their resources entirely on the draft and development, that they would be successful. In fact, the odds would be against them. Fans clamouring for this reminds me of Jerry Krause looking forward to the day MJ and Pippen and Rodman were no longer around so they could build a champion and get all the credit.

Good thing the Sox didn't sign Carl Crawford.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Apr 30, 2011 -> 06:07 PM) No, it wont. Thankfully that's all the insight necessary for your post, because this 20 year number was obviously an arbitrary figure of how YOU feel. Yes, we all realize you don't want to grow old and watch the Sox struggle; I've picked up that vibe for years. But admit that rather than provide a doomsday scenario of what may happen if they decide to take another direction with this team. Listen, there's no set way of winning a championship, but what they're doing right now isn't working. It may be time to try another approach rather than wait for a .700+ winning streak to set us right and give everyone false hope. Deal with it with some dignity, please. If the Sox cannot select the correct players who have track records, how are they going to build from within through drafting unknowns? Who have they drafted have they basically stolen? Who have they developed? They do not have the personnel in management to get this done. I agree with SS2K5 here, although 20 may be a little high. What makes them Tampa Bay (who were bad a real long time) vs. Pittsburgh or KC who have been bad even longer? They go to a real low payroll, unless their recognizing talent in the draft and developmental program improves dramatically overnight, it will be closer to 20 years than the 3 or 4 most who choose this way figure it will take.

There has to be concern. They are losing and are failing offensively, defensively and on the mound. Their baserunning has been horrid, they insist on bunting and cannot execute bunts. Every phase has been well below par. Everyone knows teams with the Sox talent level don't perform like they have performed for 6 months. They will improve, but hopefully they don't have to make up 15 games when this turnaround occurs. I think they are still OK.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 29, 2011 -> 06:12 PM) Trying to avoid the boos from the home crowd this weekend? Non players have no right to appeal. If he gets suspended, he has to serve it right away.

If the season is over in Chicago, its also over in Minneapolis. Of course everyone would have preferred the Sox actually win some games in April, but the season is not lost yet. Its way too early for that. It does suck that you wait a long cold snowy winter for baseball and the team you follow falls on its face before it gets warm, but, and I am a guy who isn't always optimistic, I really think the Sox are the class of their division. A few tweaks is all it takes IMO. One may be Pierre. If he can't steal bases, he really shouldn't be in the major leagues.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 29, 2011 -> 08:52 PM) I'd have Ballard playing on the inside not the outside. But he is quick enough to be a pretty nice DE opposite of Peppers. Very complete too cause he can play the run as well. He tested positive for 420. He's an idiot who cost himself some cash, but a good player.