Dick Allen

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 1, 2011 -> 09:41 PM) Trading Edwin Jackson is even farther away from "all-in." Maybe not, but if you include Soriano and Garcia or another competent 5th starter as part of the trade, it probably improves the team. I think Jackson could bring back a lot, although I won't be dissappointed if he's still in the White Sox rotation opening day. Chances are this is all BS, although there were reports earlier this offseason linking the Sox to Soriano. It would be a shocker. Not only a high priced free agent, but a high priced Boras free agent.

The Bulls have been printing money for years. I read a Barry Rozner column many years ago where he was talking to a Bulls investor. This was after Jordan retired. The team wasn't winning 20 games a year, and the investor was embarrassed how much money they were making. The businesses are separate, although many of the investors are the same, and many are getting up there in years. Its possible one or some of those investors has decided to cover additional payroll for the White Sox by using some of the money they make owning the Bulls, its also possible Forbes estimates of White Sox profits over the years have been accurate. Its obviously something but the world will never know. All we know for sure is the last year and a half, everytime KW cries broke, the Sox add payroll.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jan 1, 2011 -> 09:11 PM) I doubt that Garcia would be cheap. If anything, they'd move Sale to the rotation if they deal a SP. That wouldn't work. Garcia probably wouldn't work, but losing 200 innings for the gigantic question that would be Chris Sale in the starting rotation isn't prudent, and certainly isn't "all in".

I suppose stranger things have happened, but I would think the Sox would have to dump a starter for this to happen. Trade someone like Jackson for prospects or lower paid guys, bring back Garcia cheap, and sign Soriano. It may work, but its Boras I believe which makes this report probably BS.

He still has an option. There are many circumstances where the Sox don't make the playoffs in which Ozzie would return. But unless he's hit with some major injuries or another team plays out of its mind, and he makes it through the year without fighting with KW and Oney not popping off anymore, you would think Ozzie and Oney are on a very short leash in 2011. When it does end, it probably isn't going to be pretty. Jenks comments are nothing compared to what Oney and Ozzie are going to say.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 10:24 PM) It has nothing to do with justifying it, or not. There seems to be this feeling that this is some massive event, yet it is pretty easy to argue this isn't close to the worst that has happened around Ozzie. There is also the thought that Ozzie has to fix this. My point is very simple... it goes back to the old adage about giving a monkey a gun. The simple point of view is to blame Ozzie. So you are of the opinion that Ozzie, who has provided Oney with all these opportunities to be in the clubhouse and hang out with players, should not have to put his foot down and tell his son enough is enough because Oney is a 24 or 25 year old punk and should make his own decisions? Even if Oney's decisions can ultimately hurt Ozzie and the White Sox? I think there is where you blame Ozzie. When you are a juvenile and do something wrong, your parents do take some responsibility. Oney is an adult by calendar only. You listened to the interview, there are plenty of 15 year olds far more mature that him. Its time Ozzie realizes that and puts Oney in his place. He needs to be a dad, even if it means Oney will be mad at him for a while, instead of just being best friends. I suppose maybe behind the scenes he is doing something, we probably will never know but publicly scolding Oney would go a long way IMO, and if Oney continues like he's been continuing, it points to really Ozzie doing nothing about it. If he doesn't do anything, its not like Oney is going to stop with the Twitter. And you know chances are a rough patch or two happen every season. Face it, even in 2005 things got a little hairy for a while. When is the next twittergate? Its coming unless the only person who can stop it steps up to do so. Ozzie isn't going to get fired because of this, but failure to pick up and option or another extension could easily be in play if the White Sox decide they have had enough of all the baggage Ozzie brings, at least one piece of luggage, Oney. Of course if that day happens, Oney's tweets will once again be front page news. Again.

The irony here is when Ozzie Guillen left the White Sox as a player, what he said made what Jenks said almost a complement. If twitter was around then there also was some stuff the organization could have spilled about Ozzie that wasn't very flattering. I'm not a Berstein fan by any stretch, but his talking logic with Oney was spot on IMO, (although I am being a bit hypocritical as I laughed at the tweets as they were happening).

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 07:16 PM) I'm sure there is more there that we don't know about. Hell there is plenty there that Oney probably doesn't even know about. Of course there is, but you are trying to protect Ozzie using Oney's claims, after he's been grilled about how bad this makes his dad look, that he didn't get the information from his dad, but from personal experience. He did say he was not present during the crying in the manager's office. So we don't know who told him about it, but Ozzie would be the prime suspect. Oney also says he doesn't discuss anything about the White Sox with his dad. Where would you put the odds of that actually being true? Again, I don't think Ozzie should be fired over this, and none of us really know if this incident will have no impact or a huge impact on the White Sox clubhouse. I just think its time Ozzie shuts his son up. And we all know he can if he wants.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 07:09 PM) Stop and think about that for a minute. Do you really think the Sox would have come out and said that they are sending Jenks to rehab publicly, without there being a public incident to necessitate that information being public? We have no idea how the Sox dealt with Jenks's problems. According to Oney's tweets, they swept his problems under the rug. Also according to Oney there WAS a public incident with the clubbie. The team managed to keep it quiet. The Sox could have easily sent Jenks to rehab during the offseason and kept it quiet, but we know that never happened because if it did, Oney would have tweeted it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 06:57 PM) Action on what exactly? Getting an employee help with a problem.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 06:53 PM) I missed where he said he did keep it quiet. no action taken by the team would indicate Oney not expressing them his concerns. If its all about be loyal to the White Sox, something Oney mentioned with Bernstein, shouldn't, your closer has a huge drinking problem be given to the team, not to the world after the season is over? The 2 were not buddies, at least for a couple of years. Oney likes to name drop on twitter all the time. He has never mentioned hanging with Jenks. I think we can both agree Oney is an ass. What we disagree on is Ozzie's role with that. I'm not calling for Ozzie's head over this, although I have seen guys get canned for far less, I just think if Oney respects Ozzie as much as he claims, if Ozzie really wanted these things to stop, they would stop.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 04:22 PM) i agree with this. As I've said before, if this is what happened Ozzie, should be in some trouble, but not fired yet. The problem with firing him for this is proving the source was Ozzie. If what rock said is true (and I don't doubt him) that Oney and Jenks were friends and went out together alot, there is sufficient enough doubt that only source could have been Ozzie. If they were such good friends and Oney thought Jenks had a drinking problem, why did he keep it quiet from the White Sox? Or at the very least, why didn't he try to get Jenks to get some help? Oney was ripping Jenks all last season. They weren't the buddies some are making them out to be.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 05:17 PM) This a great point. If Ozzie is responsible for Oney, many of the people in this thread need to be putting their mommy's and daddy's in this thread so we can talk to your responsible party's. I do know how my father would have reacted if Twitter was around when I was Oney's age and I went on the rampages he's been on even calling out Ozzie's boss and it was as public as this is, my dad wouldn't say "he's a grown man, he's entitled to his opinion" He would make sure I never did that again. IMO, Ozzie could get Oney to stop if he really wanted him to stop. I think Ozzie actually likes it when Oney goes on a tear. All Ozzie needs to say is he doesn't agree with Oney's rant, and also ban Oney from USCF and any park the White Sox play in. That will leave no doubt that Oney will not have access to information he shouldn't have access.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 30, 2010 -> 02:59 PM) I understand that you hate Ozzie and want him gone. Oney Guillen is a 25 year old human being, what's Ozzie susposse to do, bend him over a knee and give him a spanking? Telling him to shut up or his allowance will be cut off would probably do the job.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 10:06 PM) He said specifically the crying incident didn't happen this year. OK, but then how did he know about the marital problems and the drinking problems and the self diagnosis fantom injury? You don't really believe Oney is being straight when saying he doesn't discuss any White Sox stuff with Ozzie do you? Its not like Ozzie has ever been known to keep secrets. KW doesn't even discuss what he's working on with him anymore because Ozzie eventually leaks it. That said, I think everything will be fine if Ozzie steps up and gets Oney out of the picture once and for all.

Oney said he hasn't been in the White Sox clubhouse for over a year.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 07:14 PM) That's the same thing I wondered, because it does make a difference in this story. If Oney is talking about things that he saw, versus things that his dad told him, it changes things for me. I asked Oney on Twitter, and he claims all of the tweets are about things he observed himself. He was stuttering pretty much when Bernstein was grilling him and basically downplayed the "one thing" in the manager's office. I advise everyone to listen to the interview. Oney is a bigger dope than I ever thought.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 06:50 PM) How do you know that Guillen told Oney this? Oney and Jenks like to party. In 2005 at the video unveiling Oney was there with Jenks and Cotts. I find it more plausible that Jenks and Oney were drinking buddies moreso than Guillen sitting around airing the clubhouse news over dinner. Read Oney's tweets. He mentions how Jenks went to the manager with his problems, then let everyone hear about them. I admittedly enjoyed the tweets yesterday, but iamshack is right on here. There's really no defending what he's done, and even if Jenks "deserved" it, some things should be left unsaid. Its been an unwritten rule forever in sports, what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse. Oney has a right to stick up for his father, but some things are off limits. Just about everyone has problems, and eventually a lot of guys have problems with Ozzie, there's reasons he was voted manager players would least like to play for. As long as everything is going smoothly, I'm sure Ozzie is a riot to be around and play for, but every team and every playerhits bumps. A lot more of them have serious issues than you realize. Oney shouldn't be tweeting aboutwhat happens in the White Sox clubhouse. He doesn't work there, I don't believe he's even allowed in anymore. Listen to Oney's score interview, and then remember what he tweeted about KW and his kid. Its beyond hypocritical.

QUOTE (Saufley @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 04:54 PM) So who becomes the new manager, of the Sox, when Ozzie is asked to leave? Joey Cora? According to Oney, Joey would never dis Ozzie like that.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 29, 2010 -> 09:18 AM) That's not the message this sends. The message this sends is that if you don't want your dirty laundry aired...then keep your own mouth shut. Ripping the team that knows all your dirty laundry? That's moronic. Every one in that locker room suffered last year because of Bobby's problems, and every one of them kept their mouths shut. Bobby Jenks left, and immediately decided that he couldn't keep his mouth shut, and blamed the people who were covering for him. What is shows is if you go to Ozzie with a personal situation he likes to discuss it over dinner with the rest of his family. If, for some reason, you want to jab Ozzie in the future, and by no means do I think what Jenks did was right, then you will be subject to Oney airing out all of your personal laundry. It really isn't good.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 10:19 PM) Remember at the beginning of the season when everyone was saying that the Bears had no chance because they had such a tough schedule? Remember how, going into week 17, the Bears have been said to be lucky and won the "equivalent to the MAC"? When the Bears were 4-3 I was watching Chicago Tribune Live. John Moon Mullin predicted the Bears would go 10-6, everyone on the panel tried laughing him off the set. They said no way. They will be lucky to win 2 more games.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 06:56 PM) Cowley style somewhat tasteless joke but I don't see how this confirms anything. Pretty sure Colwey found out about it from Oney like the rest of us. Its the same source from which he gets the rest of his White Sox-related info, why should this be any different? While I am enjoying Oney's tweets at the moment, I do know they are wrong, and a bigger issue may be why does Oney know what goes on in Ozzie's office when its a private conversation between Ozzie and a player? This really may come back to bite Ozzie in the ass.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 06:32 PM) I think Ozzie needs to muzzle the kid. The White Sox cannot continue to have someone with this much personal information about the players spewing it uncontrollably via Twitter. Eventually, it's going to have a major negative affect on the White Sox, including having players refusing to play for Ozzie Guillen because his son can't keep his mouth shut and respect their privacy. I'm sure you are correct. Maybe its because there was a 99.99 percent chance this was going to get ugly, and maybe its because Jenks started it, but I'm actually not annoyed with Oney's tweets for the first time ever.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 28, 2010 -> 06:13 PM) Oney owning Bobby on twitter and I hate Oney I don't think much of Oney either and think he's really going over the line here with some info. Am I wrong for loving it?

I like to see Ozzie and KW ripped as much as anyone, but Bobby Jenks has absolutely no reason to gripe about the White Sox. He isn't very bright.