Dick Allen

RIP Lefty Tanner. He was another manager who was traded for a player. He was traded from Oakland to Pittsburgh for Manny Sanguillen.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Feb 11, 2011 -> 07:01 PM) Man this is great news. This can't help morale at all. What a message to the younger Twins players: play your ass off and we'll probably trade you since you're just a commodity after all, not a member of the family. This is the first chink in the armor, IMO, simply because players are gonna be thinking about their own stats more instead of winning. Just a hunch, but i don't see this being anything but bad news for them. And Kyle Gibson, Shmyle Gibson. If they trade Liriano they still have to trot out the Mustache, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Duensing, Perkins...blah blah...I think we smoke the Twins this year. There was a mass exodus with Minnesota's bullpen. I believe if the White Sox can get over the mental block they have had with the Twins, and no one will ever convince me this has been nothing but a mental block, which may be easier due to the losses the Twins have suffered, and counting on a guy like Pavano to produce again, the Sox could have a cakewalk in the division. Detroit picked up a couple of nice players, but Maggs is a year older and going to be slower.........they just seem to be missing something to me.

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Feb 8, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) He did collect quite a few hits while posting a +.300 BA. Played for 3 teams last year in a brand new country for the first time. I have no problem sticking him in our minor leagues, but this dude really has no future as a regular in our outfield. Better than JoDanks with the bat at this point if that means anything. I bet when Jordan Danks is 28 he'll be able to hit .300 at Durham.

Like in the SLAM section with Celebrity (insert name) is dead, we should have a permanent thread Player (insert name) was DFA'd. A lot of people aim low on this board. When a White Sox player has a bad week, the inevitable he needs to be DFA'd post pop up, yet when other teams DFA or release someone, they become one of the most popular players on Soxtalk. Anderson is at least 28. What he's shown is most likely what he'll be, and it isn't very impressive.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 10:48 AM) I never said they would lose that much money, and honestly no one on this site will know how much they will lose if attendance stays stagnant (atleast none that I know of). I do believe they are stretching their resources and margin of error thin this year, they probably will lose some money if attendance doesn't pick up. That said, I do believe they made money almost every year recently, how much is in debate. But that is a cushion that they have decided to get rid of this year in hopes of spiking attendance with a winner instead of cutting payroll in favor of rebuilding. And for the team to say that they can't afford certain players is just basic PR/business tactics. Of course they aren't going to come out to fans and say all their plans, those types of statements are a distraction from topics of talent evaluation, negotiations, etc, while also telling fans that if they show up the team can spend more (which is obvious but I guarantee some fans don't understand that). And the game costs so much to go to because of economics, there are enough people still willing to pay that much to see a game. The less serious fans will be coming out to more games if they win more. I'm not saying you or anyone has come up with a figure as to what is a lot of money to lose for JR. I would suspect losing $50 is a lot of money for JR to lose, and making $10 million is probably making a little as he is not accustomed to losing cash. I guess my thing is they have been talking about how they have basically spent every last dime they have taken in for so long and cried poor for so long, how come now its different.? He spent in 1997 for Belle and Navarro, the team was mediocre and fans didn't show up. JR has always operated fairly conservatively and many years ago was quoted as saying he will not lose money to win games. I just don't see how JR suddenly is going to stick his neck out on the line in a poor economy and expect fans to come out win or lose. Its very strange to me. I will buy he and many of his partners are getting older and realize time may not be on their side and this may be their shot. But no one will be holding any tag days for these people if the Sox tank and attendance if off again.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 10:28 AM) According to you Dick, the Sox had a few options present: 1) Stay at the payroll of about $100 million and makes lots of money. 2) Spend all the money to make more money, as in a $120ish million payroll. The upside is that with option 1 if they believe their team is good enough to win then they saved that much money while increasing attendance (obviously that didnt happen) while in option 2 they run a huge risk in losing money if they don't win. Do you seriously believe JR is risking losing a ton of money say $20-30 million? Not a chance in hell. For the record, I like JR, but he's cried poor for years, and until now has always said, and has had his underlings say, every dime that comes in is spent on the team. Now he says over the years, they make a little here, make a little there. Attendance has dropped 4 consecutive years. If you recall KW was saying the were out of money before they picked up Peavy. Then they somehow not only found the money for Peavy but Rios as well. Attendance did not spike. Then they added payroll last season and with attendance down again, were somehow able to find $4 million for 1 month of Manny. They had the money all along. Now JR brings back AJ and Konerko and Dunn. Gives Crain 3 years. Gives Ramirez an extension, and is saying if the fans don't show up, he'll lose a lot of money. Apparently, when the fans were showing up before or not showing up, he was making a lot of money. Why should anyone feel bad about not spending money they may have a bigger need to spend elsewhere so JR and his partners don't have to eat into some of their previous profits? There's nothing wrong with JR making a profit, but there's nothing wrong with a family of 5 living on $70k in salary a year, waiting to see how the weather is or how entertaining the team is before committing $200-300 on a White Sox outing.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Feb 6, 2011 -> 09:38 AM) My hypothesis is that the Sox come close to spending what they make every year, but probably aim to profit a few million to keep the ownership happy. This means that they will have a lower payroll than the max they can afford going into the season, and they usually can readjust their estimates of profit midseason and can pick up extra money at the deadline. And JR put it bluntly, if the fans support the team in attendance they can afford to put a $115-120 million team out there every year, but it's a big risk for the team to do so with no guarantee that the team is going to contend and thus having a big risk of losing money. Just like last year was Ozzie's gamble on the team he wanted, this year will be JR/KW's gamble that the team presently built will draw loads of fans to the stadium. JR shouldn't be pleading for fans who probably 99.999% would rather be in his financial situation than their own, to buy tickets so he might not lose money., which he admits he could handle if it happened. He needs to plead to his staff and his players to perform and make people come out. What JR knows is the team sells itself. The ad campaigns help a little bit, but if he wants attendance to jump, the White Sox have to play well, and start playing well relatively early in the season. April home games except for opening day aren't going to be too crowded, although the Frank Thomas bobblehead will bring some people in and bring them in early which is good for extra concession sales. But the bottom line is no ad campaign, no pleading from the Chairman is going to put butts in the seats if the Sox don't win. The White Sox are a business. Not all business make money every year. Not all businesses deserve to make money every year. I truly believe this will be a banner year with attendance if the Sox win. Last year was a fluke. The team was less than mediocre outside of a 30 game stretch around the All Star break. If they can play consistenly well, the team won't lose money.

JR from ESPN: "We've really taken a chance," Reinsdorf said on ESPN 1000's "Talking Baseball." "The term all-in I think really makes some sense here. If we draw what we drew last year, we will lose a lot of money. We decided to make a bet that if we put this team together the way we have, that it'll contend and that people will come out and support it. Otherwise, we are definitely going to lose money. Fortunately over the years we've made a little here, we've made a little there and we can cover it if we lose. We won't be able to lose money two years in a row." Considering how they were beyond extended picking up Peavy and Rios and Manny, I think JR just blew a hole in any theory the White Sox had spent every dime they brought in.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 5, 2011 -> 10:40 PM) All I can find on google is the original 4 year, $15.5M deal that Gavin got. I assume they have offered him something else recently, but I don't know. If they lose him cause him & his agent want more money, thats fine. But they better at least offer him a market value deal, like the ones offered to Lester/Gallardo, etc. Danks said they haven't really had negotiations in 2 years. It doesn't mean the Sox haven't offered or aren't trying to sign him. I would doubt they go to his agent every couple weeks with an offer, but probably an understanding that if they want to talk an extension, the White Sox are very interested, perhaps with a reminder every now and then. As long as he performs, the closer he takes this to free agency, the more money John Danks makes. That's probably his camp's strategy.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 5, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) And none of those guys were going to command 5-6 year, $100+ million dollar contract on the open market. This is really a first during the KW era. A young, premium talent in his prime that could very well hit FA. We haven't had to worry about this because we don't do young talent here. What's to worry about? You get the services of a pitcher supposedly worth 100 million for 2 season while trying to win a championship. Why worry about having the talent? Its here. Trading him for prospects and finishing in second or third place again would be ridiculous. If he does leave, you spend the money you would have spent signing him on someone else, and there is your trade, ala the Lee/Pods trade. Throw in the longshot draft picks and its a no brainer what the better option is considering the Sox current situation. BTW,Trading him now for prospects now will never happen. KW loves Danks too much, and is trying to win. Dumping him are how the Rays and Marlins and Indians operate.

QUOTE (justBLAZE @ Feb 5, 2011 -> 03:05 PM) Getting back on the topic, Rogers (yea, I know) thinks it's a great idea. Don't teams trying to win a championship trade prospects for pitchers like Danks, studs with 2 years left on their contract rather than vice versa? The window here isn't very huge with this rotation. The time is now, not hoping guys pan out in 5 years. A lot of people are assuming Danks is gone in 2 years. Well, Konerko was gone, AJ was gone, Buehrle and Dye were gone in 2007. The list goes on.

QUOTE (Brian @ Feb 4, 2011 -> 05:33 PM) Buster Olney just made a reference to it on SC and said it will keep him out. Pettite was a pretty nice pitcher, but if he's a HOF, HGH or not, they need a big expansion in Cooperstown.

Last year, Dye was offended at $3 million offers. Then this offseason he says its not about the money he wants to play for a contender. Fine, but why would a contender give him anything but a minor league deal? If he is still able to hit, he'll make a team. If he can't he wins a trip to AZ or FL for 6 weeks. He was horrid the second half of 2009, sat out last year, and isn't exactly getting younger. JD has had a nice career, but really if his ego doesn't shrink and he quits instead of tries to make a comeback, I bet he'll regret it in a few years. He most likely doesn't need the money, but when you have the gift he was given, if he really loves to play and compete, he should try to do it for as long as he can.

QUOTE (knightni @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 09:04 PM) The CTA may have been overhauled if they had gotten the Olympic bid. Now, it'll be at least 25 more years of patching holes. Didn't the CTA basically blow $100 million + on the unfinished hole in the ground I believe under block 37? It was supposed to be some sort of superstation. The problem with giving the CTA more money is it will not be spent correctly. It never has been. This is the organization that knowingly blew off, actually faked, track inspections so they could use that money on something else. I think the entire agency needs to be overhauled. I think you are correct. The Olympics and fed money is the only way this system will ever truly be fixed. If you gave the CTA a check tomorrow to make all the repairs and upgrades that needed to be made, they would be out of money before 5% of the project was done.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 12:28 PM) Unless the Sox sign another starter, I don't see how they'd have the luxury to trade one away at this point. All the decent SPs are off the market. I agree with this. The Sox don't have starters to spare.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 09:29 AM) Danks is quite good, but the Sox better trade him before he touches free agency. We would not win that bidding war. If you don't win the war, you still have the money available you earmarked to him to spend and some draft picks. I'm not a huge draft pick guy because most are the picks behind where the Sox have annually selected and a lot of people have used as a reason for their poor drafts, but they are better than nothing. If the Sox are a contending team, trading Danks makes little sense unless you are getting guaranteed studs back. Non contending, trading him makes sense. I'd hate to be KW and trade Danks away for a package like Cleveland got for Sabbathia and try to sell Matt LaPorta to the fanbase. It would be better to have Danks finish out his contract.

I read somewhere the Sox were only offering about 500k guaranteed. I personally would have taken him back at that price, but Freddy could blow up at anytime. One less Oney playmate. If he makes the team he gets a 1.5 million contract with some incentives.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 29, 2011 -> 10:57 PM) Personally, it seems like De Aza is the 14th (or 15th, depending on how you view Viciedo) guy on the depth chart. If I am to make a prediction for how it all shakes out, the hitters look something like this C - Pierzynski 1B - Konerko 2B - Beckham 3B - Morel SS - Ramirez LF - Pierre CF - Rios RF - Quentin DH - Dunn C - Castro 1B/3B/LF/RF - Teahen 2B/SS/3B - Vizquel CF/LF/RF/2B/SS - Lillibridge You are probably going to want to have 2 people on the bench who can play SS, Lillibridge is out of options, did show a little bit in a utility role at the end of the season, he can play CF, and really, if the Sox need a guy to stand in the outfield, Dunn can do a little of that too. He does the standing around really well, but not so much with regards to his fielding ability. You're kidding about Lillibridge right? If he showed a little at the end of the year, whatever he showed I don't want: Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+ June 10 1 7 7 2 3 1 1 1 6 0 0 0 1 .429 .429 1.286 1.714 9 0 0 0 0 0 0 .400 413 348 July 16 5 22 21 5 8 3 0 0 4 2 1 1 9 .381 .409 .524 .933 11 1 0 0 0 0 0 .667 204 153 August 16 6 32 32 7 6 1 1 1 4 1 1 0 9 .188 .188 .375 .563 12 1 0 0 0 0 0 .227 75 52 Sept/Oct 22 10 40 38 5 5 0 0 0 2 2 1 2 17 .132 .175 .132 .307 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 .238 6 -11

QUOTE (djcollie03 @ Jan 29, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) Split Season Ticket Holders get the same box/cool packaging as full season tix holders. I think the big difference is the swag box that the full season folks get at the end of the year. I wonder if they'll have a preseason bobblehead like they have the last few years? If you paid on time, a Juan Pierre bobblehead.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jan 29, 2011 -> 10:36 AM) Teahen's a fatass w/no range. I really hope we only see him occasionally in the outfield. He's a waste of space, IMO. You're probably right, but the difference between this year and last, is the White Sox are counting on Teahen to provide absolutely nothing. Chances are he's a bust again, but anything he gives you that is positive is gravy. His contract is signed, the Sox are most likely stuck with him, maybe something clicks. Obviously we are in the fluff portion of the year, and everyone had a great offseason, is in the greatest shape of their career, and is primed to have the best year of their career. Most of the time, they wind up being who we thought they were. Sometimes there is a surprise. I'm not saying Teahen will surprise. I believe he won't. But there's always a chance.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 03:00 PM) I'm almost positive that under Law's system Dayan isn't eligible for his list. He no longer has prospect status. I believe in his prospect chat he states that Dayan is a DH that doesn't walk, but if learns some patience, look out. He also notes his impressive raw power. Methinks people are just looking for more reason to dislike Mr. Law. If you just read Keith Law's take on the White Sox and never watched a game or read a newspaper or listened to the radio, you would think the White Sox haven't had a 50 win season in at least 20 years. I am not exaggerating. I'm tough on KW and Ozzie, but you could take the biggest pessimist on this board and compare him to Law and the Soxtalk poster would seem like Hawk Harrelson. Law doesn't have anything nice to say about the White Sox. KW must have really pissed him off when Law was working for Toronto.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 28, 2011 -> 08:47 AM) The real problem with signing a Garcia is...what do you do with him if all of your other 5 starters are healthy. If you can get him on a deal where you can option him to the minors, that's perfect, but he ought to be able to find better than that just by going to NL clubs. The other place to put him is the bullpen...but I don't think that works that great either. I noted earlier how I don't think he's a good bullpen fit with his health issues and with his history of needing a long time to warm up. Beyond that though, there are only 2 guys in the bullpen who can effectively be sent down to the minors, Sale and Infante, and frankly, I expect that both of them would outpitch Freddy as bullpen guys this year. If everyone is healthy and there is no place for him, depending on how he's doing, he can be traded or Jackson could be traded. Someone is always looking for starting pitching. If the White Sox truly don't believe Peavy will be ready before May or June, I'd be shocked if they didn't try to add a veteran stopgap, and Freddy is probably the best one out there. If not Freddy, if I were KW, I'd look at Justin Duchscherer. If he is healthy enough, he can start at the beginning of the year, and you could slide him into the bullpen when and if Peavy is ready.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 01:52 PM) But, like I said, they also need offseason sales on individual games to be good. Trust me on that. Most people don't buy individual tickets for mid-to-late season games, unless it's for the Cubs. Of course, the previous season usually helps the next. However, the first couple of weeks of the season, it's impossible to tell what kind of team it will be for the full season. That's why I'm hoping people don't wait to "see what happnes" in that first few weeks before they start buying tickets. Mainly, the call from the fans has been: spend the money, put the team on the field, and we'll show up. That will have to prove to be true early on. I understand that, but there is a reason April and May games don't get the premiere or premium tags games later in the season get hung with. Think about it. If you had a couple of kids and had a budget of 2-3 games per season, when tickets went on sale, are you going to buy tickets for a Saturday afternoon in April or a Wednesday in early May, or do you pick the June and July games? I'd be willing to bet since the strike over 16 seasons ago, the Sox haven't had many non opening day April and at least early May games with advanced sales of at least 30k except for 2006. The first few weeks of the season depend on the team playing decently and weather. If the forecast calls for it to be 35 and the Sox are 1-4 on the Friday after opening day, you're going to see a lot of green. If its 65 and the Sox are 4-1, there will be a pretty decent crowd.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 10:37 PM) A 6 man rotation is just never a good idea. Its never a real bad idea to have too many starters. If everyone is healthy and can pitch, they are pretty easy to get rid of.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Jan 26, 2011 -> 10:20 PM) Games from June through September are the games the results on the field are responsible for getting people there. In Apr/May, southsider is right, it's up to the fans to respond to the offseason. Many of the early-season tickets are bought before the season begins. It's not accurate that fans "always" show up early on. That's not true. They show up for opening day, and there's almost always a dramatic decline in the games that follow. Sox fans have not, historically, responded quickly to success. They didn't start selling out games until late August 2005, and they were in first place by 12 games in June. April and May games have historically seen rather low attendance due to school and weather. Even the Cubs are gearing their 13 game plan trying to get people to buy April and May games. Why is some man or woman supposed to commit $200 to a game when there is a decent chance it could be 35 degrees or a delay that will get their kids home at 1 AM with school the next day. The only time the White Sox had stacked crowds throughout April and May was 2006, and we know why. Walk up sales are what can help the Sox. They not only need to play well, they need the weather to cooperate. The fans respond to the offseason with a bump in season tickets and Ozzie plans and they buy games in the summer months.