Dick Allen

I think there has to be concern about Garcia if only for the fact that he really hasn't done anything since 2006. That's a long time. I know a lot of people were thrilled with his performance last September, including me, but face it, a lot of performances you see in September are never repeated. Its not like the Sox are paying him a lot of money. Despite what Oney Guillen thinks, and he knows more about baseball than any of us because he hit almost .140 in rookie ball, there's a good chance Freddy is a bust. I'm pretty sure KW knows the odds as much as anyone. Its probably one big reason Hudson isn't in the bullpen.

QUOTE (11and1 @ Mar 28, 2010 -> 07:08 PM) I wasn't aware this discussion was a zero-sum game. Can't we all be happy if Teahen performs? Even though some of us think(as of last week) he may not? This "No-Lose" theory only holds water only if you will be happy if he tanks, thus vindicating your POV. Of course I'll be happy if he does well--even if it's necessary to tell me "I told ya so". No, if he does well--and thankfully it appears he's headed in that direction--it will be a happy surprise. I agree with you. This is a White Sox fan message board. I really don't think anyone on here really wants anybody to be bad just so they can say I told you so. I'm pretty sure we would all like the Sox to go 173-0 this year. Different opinions spark discussion. If everyone thought the exact same way it would be a pretty boring board. Besides if there is some zero sum game as Ranger suggests, there's also the I told you so the other way.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Mar 28, 2010 -> 01:05 PM) Very good hire IMO. One of the best mid-major coaches out there. Although the same was said about Lickliter. It will be interesting to see how McCaffery recruits without any real midwest experience besides being an ND assistant for two years in the late 80s, but lots have changed since then. That to me is the hardest part to get going when you are a new coach, you gotta make a lot of contact and friendships with coaches in a short period of time. He was at ND for 11 years I believe. He'll recruit a lot better than Lickliter if not for the only reason he likes to coach a brand of basketball that is actually fun to play. I'm very excited. He's the only coach ever to take 3 separate schools from single bid conferences to the tournament. With Carver Hawkeye Arena getting a $50 million renovation, it won't be long before Iowa becomes relevant in basketball again.

Coaches an up-tempo style, I think its a solid hire. If he can recruit decently, Carver Hawkeye Arena should be back to full capacity in a couple of years.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 27, 2010 -> 06:39 PM) That was 100% deliberate. Probably 110 were fastballs again. Peavy was happy with the outing he liked his breaking ball, he said his problem was location. But you are correct, it means nothing if he gets tagged and nothing if he throws a no hitter at this point. Just be ready when it counts.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 27, 2010 -> 05:17 PM) Teahen up to .256. From where he was, I'd say that's a good thing. He hit .433 with a 1.360 OPS last spring and he was poor when it counted. Spring numbers mean squat. Hopefully Walker has him doing something that will translate to hits when it matters.

QUOTE (lord chas @ Mar 27, 2010 -> 04:27 PM) most overrated award in baseball imo Unless a White Sox wins one.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Mar 26, 2010 -> 11:04 PM) You would be correct. Though some players have said they would prefer shorter ST times. Gavin Floyd was ready to go 2 weeks ago. I'm sure most would like shorter spring training, just like most in the NFL would like a shorter training camp. Some guys need it. Especially guys coming off injury. I would be though if it was shorter, they would like it to start later, not start the regualar season sooner. If they started sooner, chances are there would be a lot more doubleheaders later in the season.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 25, 2010 -> 03:28 PM) Only 107 games. And to be fair, the Sox didn't plan on having Everett DH or play nearly that much throughout the entirety of the year. Besides all of that, it doesn't justify the Sox using the DH's they are. Yes they did. They knew Thomas wasn't going to be ready at the start of the season, and there was question as to whether he would ever play again.

QUOTE (bighurt574 @ Mar 24, 2010 -> 03:57 PM) Spring Training doesn't always mean much, but all things being equal, I'd sure rather have a guy go into Opening Day on a hot streak as opposed to a cold streak. That's probably true, then again, DeWayne Wise was a star in spring training last season.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 09:24 PM) If you only count the 4 years in which Crede played close to a full season ('03-'06) and Teahen's last 3 years (taking out his seemingly anomalous '06 campaign) they have the exact same OPS+ (95). Of course then I'm counting Crede's '06 performance which was far and away his best offensive season so I'm not really being fair to Mark, so Crede's '03-'05 OPS+ is 90 and Teahen's '07-'09 OPS+ is 95. So in conclusion; I have no idea. Most couldn't wait for Crede to be replaced by Josh Fields, who ironically was part of the package for Teahen, and a guy no one even mentions when they talk about that trade. If Teahen plays like he played at KC, he will not be very popular.

QUOTE (flavum @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 07:06 PM) Cowley on Nix making the team. http://blogs.suntimes.com/whitesox/2010/03..._it_hes_in.html No surprise. I still think there may be a trade.

QUOTE (joeynach @ Mar 23, 2010 -> 07:21 PM) Listen at the end of the day the white sox are going to be similar offensive production from Teahen as they did from Crede. So in terms of production that the team is used to getting from their 3B their wont be that much difference, expect for defense of course. Crede 162 game average: .254/.304/.444/.748............26 HR, 29 2B, 86 RBI........Salary: $5M+ per year Teahen 162 game average: .269/.331/.419/.749............14 HR, 35 2B, 70 RBI........Salary: $4.6M per year (2010-2012 avg) In fact when you break this down, offensively they are almost the same in terms of production. When all is said and done their OPS is identical. What crede lacks in batting average and OPB he makes up for in HR and RBI, and what Teahen lacks in power he makes up for with better BA, OBP, and thus doubles. Of course all things being equal you would rather have Crede because of the defense, but looking at offense alone I would consider his contribution to the offense to be be either the same as Crede's or slightly better since Tehean does bring some speed (averages 10 SB per year), and his place in the lineup is more in-tune with his higher OBP and doubles rate. P.S. Oh and lets not forget to mention Teahen is not a looming injury every time he takes the field. Crede was pretty banged up for the most part when determining his averages, and throw out 2006 and the 2005 playoffs, even with his outstanding defense, he was a Soxtalk whipping boy. If Teahan is similar offensively, its pretty much a given he's nowhere close defensively, he's not going to be a very popular guy around here. Maybe he shows the ability most scouts thought he had this year. It will be interesting to see how he does with a little more attention on him in a bigger city with more media, a higher profile team, etc. playing in games that really matter beginning opening day. Face it, in KC, the season was over before it started. Who cares what he does in spring training, as long as it doesn't screw with his head to begin the season. After seeing what I've seen over and over, the Cactus and Grapefruit League All Star Teams over the years have very little resemblance to All Star teams in July and even less resemblance to Silver Slugger winners and other award winners at the end of the year.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 22, 2010 -> 12:48 AM) This thread is ridiculous. I'm going to bookmark it and bump it in a couple months. I think Teahen is a mediocre player, but you're right, its 20 spring training ABs some are freaking out over. Everyone will have a string of 20 AB when the games matter that will be this bad. Be thankful he's doing bad in games that don't count.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 02:30 PM) Oney being promoted is kind of misleading. The guy was filler material for a week at a higher level because of the moves due to the expansion of the 40 man roster. That's kinda like saying a guy who plays in a spring training game was a major leaguer because he was called over from the minor league camp for an AB or IP. After 11-96 in rookie ball,he did get to play A ball. I'm sure if you or I happened to be taken in the 36th round by the Sox and did that, we would be told to go home. I just fail to see why he considers himself an expert and guys who didn't play pro ball, non experts. Oney really had no business getting paid to play baseball.

I don't think Oney has any effect with the on field performance. His tweets mean crap, but its just an immature kid who has had everything handed to him in life feeling entitled again. Here's a guy who went 11-96 in rookie ball with 25 k's and he got promoted, yet he has the nerve to pop off about the organization who promoted him and about other players' performance or lack thereof. Its amazing. Another thing to keep in mind is if the Sox let Oney pop off about everything on Twitter whats going to stop any of the rest of the White Sox employees from blasting the organization every time they feel like it publicly? I know Ranger probably really couldn't be straight about it if he really knew, and if he asked, he probably wouldn't be given straight answers, but I would bet there have been more than a couple of players who have passed through the White Sox during Ozzie's time that aren't exactly thrilled his grown sons are front and center for a lot of things, like in the dugout, in the clubhouse, with the team on the road. If Oney is this great baseball mind, let him prove it with some hard work. I don't think he has the work ethic that will lead to any kind of success in baseball from a front office position. He wants to be the male Kim Kardasian.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 02:08 PM) Ok, so I read that Halladay didn't come here because Halladay did not want to play for the Sox. We weren't on his list. Is that wrong? And if money was really the issue, then how do you know that? And how do you know Rios' contract played even the slightest itsy witsy bitsy role in the money discussions? Perhaps the problem was more along the lines of Jerry not wanting to have about nine gazillion dollars locked up in pitchers? JR was quoted as saying that ideally all pitchers would be on 1-year-deals. I bet if I could go back in time one year and post a thread in this forum asking people to vote on whether or not JR would take on Peavy's deal if it could be done, I bet the overwhelming majority of people here would have said hell no. And BTW for all we know Kenny was talking about Felix Hernandez. Or Dan Haren. Or Cliff Lee. Or someone else. Kenny said something like us having "maybe the best 5-man rotation ever" and then Garfien went on about Halladay and ran with it. None of us know what went on. As I said in my first post I could never be sure, but KW indicated the issue was money related. If it was Halladay he could have just said no, you are correct. But if its the other guys, they don't have no trade protection as far as what I can tell so the White Sox would have to have been given a window to negotiate an extension. I'm sure if they went to the trouble of making a deal for any one of these guys, they knew they wouldn't be getting him for $8 million a year for 5 years. The money Rios is getting paid, if it wasn't on the books, could logically have been used towards that extension.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:40 PM) To say "trending down" isn't really fair, because it misrepresents his game. Yeah, he trended down, but not in the way you mean it. You say it as if there was something alarming about the difference between his 2006 and 2007 (which you would have to include in your 'trending down' time period), which, really, there wasn't. The two seasons were basically the same, though some of the numbers were slightly -- and I do mean slightly, as in "unnoticeably" -- lower. In 2008 there was some significance, and last year was anomalous. He won't do that again unless he's hurt. OK, but then they would be without a center fielder. On a team with an already strong rotation, an outfielder was a more desperate need. Semantics? Yes. Words matter, friend, and your hyperbole was misleading. There is a difference between "awful" and "subpar". Hitting .150 is "awful". Hitting .250 with a low OBP is ""subpar". Finding an adequate OF is a lot easier than finding a front line starter, no matter how good your rotation currently is. If as KW said, the White Sox would have had the best rotation of all time, I think that's more preferrable than Rios in the OF and the current rotation, even though it looks pretty, pretty good, especially if the plan is not to use Rios in CF full time.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:27 PM) Just wondering if everytime someone calls you out on your whining you will resort to "well why dont you just delete it if you dont like it?". Keep muddying the point DA, you are very good at that. and with that, I am done with making my point. You're point is worthless. Kalapse is posting about Rios. Where's your complaining? You were the one who is whining. Grow up. I'm just defending myself.

I'm pretty sure the only person the past 3 or 4 years that said Dye was anything but a bad defensive player at this point was Hawk Harrelson, and even he now says the OF defense is vastly improved and it isn't because Juan Pierre will be throwing flyballs back to the infield from LF.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 01:05 PM) What, you dont like when people b**** and moan about the same s***? Funny, me neither. And I never said Rios contract has no merit. I said your money complaining has no merit in the conversation, which was about Teahen's struggles, hence the name of the thread Maybe you should look at the post my post was responding to before you tell me it has no merit again. You mentioned the Sox would never have Halladay's and Peavy's contracts on the books at the same time in his thread. What does that have to do with Teahen's struggles. You're a mod. If my post doesn't fit into a thread delete it. Its pretty simple. Don't try to knock me and then do the same things you're accusing me of doing. And I wasn't "complaining" about money. I just said his acquisition perhaps cost the Sox a shot at Halladay. I think its a fair statement.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 09:44 AM) No I am not editing your posts for you, you are a big boy. The bolded is always your point and you fit it into arguments where it has no merit, all the time. You start with "His numbers have been declining" then go off into a tangent about who KW could of signed over the offseason, then back to numbers in spring training. Everything is disconcerning to you, and I still have yet to hear that the White Sox are nearly as concerned about their money situation as you are. In fact, you are the only one I have read that keeps saying they are concerned about money. Just because they operate under a budget doesnt mean they are constantly worried about money, despite what you think. The budget is still high and can maintain a competitive team. Your point with Halladay is moot, the trade never happened and it is still speculation as to who KW had. Halladay was probably looking for an extension that would match what Peavy will be making at the end of his contract, and no matter what Rios is making, I highly doubt KW wants to be spending 40+ million on 2 pitchers in one year. He doesnt work like that, he never has. Alex Rios' contract has no merit? I just stated facts. KW said he had a trade for a pitcher that could have made his rotation the best ever. He said they ran into a problem with an extension. These are facts. I said not having to owe $60 million to Rios probably would have helped with the extension. I also said maybe not, because it may not have been the extension. Perhaps Halladay or whoever it was just said no. IIRC, Halladay has a NTC. I also love how you rip me for speculating, then speculate yourself. As for spending, the White Sox have recently spent a lot more money on starting pitching if you break it down $/player than any other position. 2006 the only 2 players on the roster being paid more than the 5 starters were Thome and half of his salary was being paid by Philadelphia, and Konerko who was a post season star for a championship team. Konerko at that stage was owed about the same as Rios is right now. If KW was at least semi- prepared to make a deal with Halladay or whatever pitcher it was that was going to make his rotation the best of all-time in his words, I'm sure he knew it would cost a pretty penny not only prospect-wise, but money-wise as well. Adrian Gonzalez, if the Sox somehow get him, is going to be just as expensive, if not more if they want to extend him. Rios has a lot to live up to. Paying someone $60 million for 5 years is expecting he will perform a lot better than an average player. He needs to be better than the "well he's better than Dewayne Wise" thoughts. I don't see where 25 or so spring training ABs shows he's ready to live up to his end of the deal. I hope he does, but nothing has been answered yet. I'd bet the ranch if he was placed on waivers, he wouldn't be claimed. If he was making $1 million a year, he most certainly would be claimed. His contract has plenty of merit.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 09:21 AM) DA, sometimes you are just ridiculous with your points on money. If you remove the bolded part your entire point is about performance, as it should be because that is what this discussion is about. Maybe you can edit my posts for me. The point being, a team always worried about money, owes this guy more money than any player they ever have had. His performance has to be pretty stellar. They owe this guy for 5 years, and already scouts are saying he doesn't care. In the next 5 years the Sox are going to have to start paying some guys a lot of money. Someone very popular may not have a place on the team because of Alex Rios' contract. So he better be better than OK. Its very disconcerning if you ask me, and KW talking yesterday how he's a "surprise" because he looks good at the plate, is pretty revealing as well. Face it, if the Sox put Rios through waivers right now, even with the spring showing everyone he's better than ever, he wouldn't be claimed. Spring training is all about feel good stories. Hawk was praising Jenks yesterday, he was throwing well, his breaking ball was great, his calf wasn't a problem, until KW had to step in and say he was undergoing an MRI on his calf. And on the other side, there's no reason to fret over guys who aren't hitting that well or pitching that well right now. When the games count is when it matters.

QUOTE (Ranger @ Mar 21, 2010 -> 02:31 AM) He had 2 awful months, 3 subpar months, and 1 pretty good one. And even if 5 of them were awful, it doesn't necessarily mean anything in terms of what is to come for him. Players will sometimes have anomalous poor seasons. Rios has been trending down ever since he signed his extension. KW told Garfien he had a pitcher but couldn't agree to an extension. That pitcher supposedly was Roy Halladay. The $60 million Rios eats up probably would have help with the extension part. Maybe not. I'm certainly not going to get too excited by a few spring training AB and determine he's back and better than ever. I still have what many scounts have offered, that he doesn't seem to care since he signed that contract, in the front of my mind. He and Jones will have to perform well when the games count and the pitchers who deserve to be on a MLB mound will be on the mound using their entire aresenal, and although I don't think much of Teahan, its the same way with him. These outs and errors don't mean squat. The games don't count. I think everyone should be reminded Wilson Betemit hit 6 homers and had 18 rbi for the Sox in spring training last year. It doesn't count.

He's not good defensively. Offensively he's average. I wouldn't worry too much about his struggles.