Dick Allen

QUOTE (rockren @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:44 PM) KW mentioned the 5 or 6 thousand walk-ups we had during the last home stand. I'll bet KW used that as a selling point to JR on this. The walk ups were for $9 tickets. They have been sitting on money.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:42 PM) Jerry approved of this deal because of our attendance, per KW. We were at just over 90 million this year for our payroll this year before Peavy and Rios. We might not only be looking at that insane amount of money off the books, but also a general increase in payroll for next year, as I doubt the doomsday expectations were met. Regardless people worried about the money are being ridiculous. Whatever KW says, I think the truth is they had some money to play with. They weren't at their budget at the beginning of the season, perhaps anticipating moves like this, and for everyone who thinks I think Rios blows, I don't and I hope he hits .400 with 80 homers.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:39 PM) So, let's imagine this...let's say you're right and he's slightly overpaid. That means either he's making $1-2 million more than he should be per year, or he's signed for what, 1 year longer than would be fair? Given our holes in CF and the fact that we get him for this season for only $2 million, doesn't it seem worth paying a slightly premium price if this guy brings production? As a said, he's a nice player, but if he really is a lock to be as good as most think he is, Toronto wouldn't have let him go, and if Toronto would have pulled him back, a lot of the people who are praising him right now would have called Ricciardi an idiot for keeping him. If he's a bargain, Ricciardi is an idiot for letting him go for nothing.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:31 PM) Why wait, its pretty easy to use reason. True/False With bad Free Agent classes, players generally get contracts that are more than what they are worth because of less supply. True/False The economic situation wont be as dire this winter than last when teams didnt know what to predict True/False Good defensive Cf'ers with a plus bat make more than 10 million a season on the open market That was in the past. I know you might think the economy is fine now, but its really not. There aren't a lot of teams that will be throwing around money this offseason for crap. This guy is signed for 5 years at $12 million. Its more than he would get on the market. The Yankees, Mets, Dodgers, Angels, Red Sox and Cubs won't be looking for high priced OF. Who else would be paying him?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:24 PM) And in THIS coming offseason, his contract would have been on par with what he would have been paid, especially with the weak class. I'd like to see an example of what contract you think he would get right now, since I've already thrown out 2 players that are comparable with worse contracts. Rosenthal said last offseason you could have signed Abreu, Hudson, Branyan and Adam Everett and still had $800 k left over for one season of what Rios would be averaging.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:23 PM) Which means worst players will be getting paid even more than what they are worth, and you are saying the economy is going to be worse than last year? I doubt it since teams were mostly cutting costs trying to PREDICT what would happen with their fan base and the economy, and at this point its pretty clear we have seen the bottom and attendance is not as bad as originally thought. We'll see in the winter.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:21 PM) Don't know. I have made a pretty concerted effort to keep off the Walker subject, maybe you should make a concerted effort not to try and bait. Can I mention your boy Rudy in Texas? The Rangers are 13th in the AL in AVG. and OBP. but lead the league in homers. Lift and pull.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:20 PM) Who said he was a savior? Please quote that post, cause I havent seen it. And yes, on the open market, not in last offseason, he IS a 60 million player, no question. Aaron Rowand 5 years 60 million signed as a 30 year old career stats .282 .341 .793 Torii Hunter 5 years 90 million signed as 32 year old .274 .329 .802 Alex Rios 5 years 60 million signed as 27 year old career stats .285 .335 .786 The White Sox assumed the contract THIS year. That's why THIS year's economic climate is relevant.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:16 PM) So which under 30 centerfield from said FA class would you want? I'm not saying I wouldn't want him, but I certainly wouldn't pay him $60 million.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:14 PM) Love this move. Hopefully he gets a bump by coming over to a pennant race. Hitting in our park will help him out in the long run. What effect will Greg Walker have on him?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:10 PM) And in the next offseason it will be a different economic time than this one. Whats the point? This offseason was an outlier? Next offseason will be the same or worse. Probably worse as the FA class is pretty weak. Even the Yankees are making teams eat money.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:08 PM) just get to the point and state your beef with Rios. You are bringing up players that arent even closely related to what Rios is just to prove a point, I am just not sure what your point actually is. Rios's contract should be compared with Rowand and Hunter, not over the hill corner OF'er/DH's on their last legs in a recession. My beef? I have no beef. I just don't think he's the savior everyone here thinks he is. He's a nice player, not a $60 million player.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 08:02 PM) You're wrong. Rios was given an extension before ST last year, aka the 2007-2008 offseason, the same offseason Hunter signed. And it was only the year before that when GMJr signed (the 06-07 offseason). I'm not wrong. I'm asking a hypothetical question because the Sox just picked him up for nothing. Rios was given this contract in a different economic time.

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:57 PM) Alex Rios > Tori Hunter > GMJr Hunter $18M through 2012 GMJr $11M in 2010, $12M in 2011 Rios $9.7M in 2010, $12M 2011-12, $12.5M in 2013-14, $13.5M club option ($1M buyout) in 2015 So yeah, we win and f*** THE ANGELS I was asking what he would get after this season if he was a FA. Hunter and GM Jr. were signed in different economic times.

I think this is going to work out either very well, or go very wrong. I think its going to depend on how guys like Quentin and Beckham develop. IMO Rios is more of a complementary player, not a star, and might be more comfortable playing 3rd or 4th fiddle.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:48 PM) [/b] Ibanez also was a late bloomer. We are getting Rios in the prime of his career. I am very excited about this, I think this guy is going to be big. I hope so, they are committing more money to him than they gave Mark Buerhle.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) He's also not the 'roider that Ibanez allegedly is. You know this how?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:49 PM) Raul Ibanez - 37 $11 million per year for 3 years. WAR since 2004 - 14.7 Milton Bradley - 31 $10 million per year for 3 years. WAR since 2004 - 16 Adam Dunn - 29 $10 million per year for 2 years. WAR since 2004 - 15.5 Alex Rios - 28 $12 million per year for 5 years. WAR since 2004 - 17.5 We win. If you double the financial commitment, you should win.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:42 PM) Several mid-30 year olds got 3 years and $10 million plus a year last year. This guy is 28. People will pay for that, with good reason. Ibanez got 3 years $31 million. In fact, Manny and Texiera were the only non pitchers to get more than $31 million. Rios is owed $60 million. He's got himself a good deal. He's not the hitter Ibanez is.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:35 PM) I'd guess he'd be offered at least 4/$48, possibly 4/52. He's coming off a down year, so that would hurt him (unless he rakes the 2nd half of this year...like he did in the 2nd half last year). The downturn in the market and his down season would combine and I think he'd wind up somewhere in that area. Next offseason, if the economy has sufficiently recovered, he'd be talking 5/$65 or better. I don't see that at all.

For what they have to pay Rios the rest of the year, its less than the extra cash they would have had to pay Peavy if he had approved the trade in May.

Rios is 6'5" 215lbs. He's going to lose a step or so in the next couple seasons.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:26 PM) And, unlike playing the FA market...we didn't have to outbid anyone...and we didn't have to lose a draft pick. Let me ask you this, if Rios were a free agent after this season, do you think there is any way he would get a 5 year $60 million deal with a $13.5 million option for a 6th? I really don't think so, but I suppose its possible.

QUOTE (BFirebird @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:23 PM) Hmm. Interesting. Would trading him make John Danks more difficult to re-sign? That's thinking is silly. Although I'm sure the Danks brothers would love to play together, if the Sox traded Jordan Danks to another organization where he had a better opportunity to play in the major leagues and succeed, John Danks would be happy.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 10, 2009 -> 07:22 PM) Does this make Jor Danks trade bait this offseason? I don't think so. Although ideally when Rios is starting to get $12 million + a year he will be the Sox RF with Danks or Mitchell playing CF.