Dick Allen

I think the Sox will eventually sign Garcia and Garland. I also think Crede will wind up in Texas. 1. Nice and hot. Easier to keep his back loose. 2.Can really pad his stats if he's healthy. Then he goes out next year and makes a little bit of money if his back holds up, which I now doubt.

A real 4th and/or 5th starter would be a better prize. Maybe a real leadoff hitter could be the consolation gift. That way you could reward all Sox fans.

1 year $1.5 million with incentives.Probably a waste of money.

Harold was a good hitter, but how do you put someone in the HOF who just hit for the majority of his career and has a lower OPS than Mark Grace? I doubt there is anyone here who considers Grace a HOFer.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 6, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) Not my first sentence. From mlbtraderumors.com. I don't think that the interest is as much in Swisher as it is in Nady. I will be shocked if he is traded that the return comes close to what KW got, especially if Nunez or Marquez make a significant contribution this year. (I know we're counting on Marquez already, but Nunez is dark horse, like Santos (LHP) in the Vazquez deal). The Mets have Castillo (for now), and the Yankees have Cano...so unless one of those guys is traded, I think the market will challenge the O-Dog a bit too now...Cabrera/Eckstein will be struggling to find offers one would think. The weird part is the money that Punto and Felipe Lopez got, or that Adam Everett found a taker. Even Renteria. Isn't Marquez BA's #14 White Sox prospect currently? Its not like KW broke the bank ridding himself of Swisher, but he did well to get something and not have to eat any money. Giambi who had an OBP of .375 last year with 32 hr and 96 rbi, is getting a 1 year $5.25 million contract from Oakland.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 6, 2009 -> 11:03 AM) Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady are drawing "significant interest." Rosenthal speculates that the Giants, Braves, or Pirates would make sense. Perhaps because of the cool market for his services, Orlando Cabrera is willing to play second base. The Yankees did not have interest. That Gavin Floyd for Brian Roberts rumor "seemingly arose from internal discussions among Orioles officials." from mlbtraderumors.com It will be very interesting to see if Swisher is traded again and I'm sure the package will be significantly less than what KW got from the Yankees the first time around...especially if the numbers that Giambi will eventually get from the A's are accurate, not to mention the Burrell deal. Dunn, Griffey, Jr., Garret Anderson and a couple of other guys are still out on the market, too. Anyone concerned that Cabrera hasn't found a taker yet? It would be ironic if his Type A compensation status ended up preventing another team from signing him...although Garland's Type B, so we wouldn't have gained anything by keeping him, either. Not to mention Uribe, Crede, Griffey and Garland have yet to find homes, among others. And then there's Cabrera, of course. The Yankees don't even seem to want or need Swisher, so the only player we lost that anyone really "coveted" was Vazquez. Your first sentence says Swisher is drawing significant interest. Your last says the only player the White Sox traded that anyone wanted was Vazquez. It doesn't make much sense. Trading Swisher was a Exec of the Year move for KW. His contract, especially considering his performance is far from the bargain many thought it was less than a year ago. If any of the players acquired for him contribute to winning, its total gravy.

QUOTE (BainesHOF @ Jan 5, 2009 -> 11:06 PM) Not sure why there's so much negativity toward the thought of Baines as a Hall of Famer. While a decent debate could be made for either case, I'm wondering if some of you saw Baines play much. For starters, Baines was not your typical good-hit, no-field DH. He was an excellent right fielder before knee injuries and surgeries related him to the DH role. His head was always in the game and he got great jumps on the ball, often tracking down balls in the gap or down the line that you would have thought a faster player would be needed to get to. He had a great arm. While a few players had stronger arms, Baines was particularly accurate with his. Teams seldom ran on him, yet he still finished with double digit assists in a few years early in his career. Did you know that he also played some center field early in his major-league career? Now how many DHs can say that? Baines' offensive stats can be looked up, but anyone who saw him play will tell you they only tell part of the story. He was a tremendous clutch hitter. Hawks puts Baines in the top three of the best clutch hitters he ever saw with Yaz and Brett. He was that good. I'm not saying Baines belongs in the same breath as Ruth, Gehrig, Mays, Mantle, DiMaggio and Williams. But I believe he was better than some others already in the Hall of Fame. He was one of the best clutch hitters ever to play the game. That combined with his impressive career totals make him a Hall of Famers in my book. If you need a tiebreaker in a close call, Baines has always been a class act. While he was a good OF when he played, he won 0 Gold Gloves and the fact is even if it is because of injuries, he spent the majority of his time not playing the field. People want to compare him to others of a different era. Eras that don't include the DH. If he played before the mid 70's his career would have been half as long. He would have been either a pinch hitter or selling insurance.

Milton Bradley is Carl Everett except a little better hitter and fielder. He goes through teams like Ozzie goes through sunflower seeds, so its pretty obvious Hendry will be looking to dump the contract eventually with the new owner of the Cubs paying him a decent amount to play on another team.

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QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 5, 2009 -> 04:01 PM) Rock is a much better candidate than Harold. I agree, and even he is borderline. 2 or 3 Montreal-like seasons with the White Sox and he would be a lock.

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Jan 5, 2009 -> 04:12 PM) If we pickup Lyon I'd have to think KW is doing it to add depth and possibly make Jenks expendable. What's so appealing about a reliever with a career 4.46 ERA with a career WHIP of 1.42? Its at least even odds if given the same opportunity Adam Russell is more effective going forward at a fraction of the cost.

QUOTE (StatManDu @ Jan 5, 2009 -> 03:21 PM) There are some numbers that are firm in any era. You look at the numbers from Tinker, Evers and Chance, and tell me what makes them Hall worthy? Or Bill Mazeroski? Also, while this doesn't exactly apply in Harold's case, there are some things numbers can't measure. The most obvious case here is, of course, Jackie Robinson. Minnie Minoso has garnered little support from Hall voters over the years. Yet, some consider a huge pioneer and trailblazer for the Latin player. That is in addition to his standout talent. Anyway, I guess a large part of my point is that players shouldn't be dismissed automatically as Hall of Famers because they didn't reach certain numbers, benchmarks, etc If Harold played the White Sox portion of his career for any other team, I bet there would be 2 people at most on this entire board who would think he is HOF-worthy. A nice player for sure, but not a HOFer.

If you don't like Dotel, you will absolutely hate Lyon.

QUOTE (thedoctor @ Jan 5, 2009 -> 12:24 PM) i like this idea only because the thought of marquez and richard rounding out the rotation makes me ill. You apparently haven't watched Pedro recently.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 04:03 PM) Yes it is, I still havent seen an instance of when he took one of his young starters from his rotation to trade for a 2B when he has a glut at the position. I also do not recall him acquiring a guy like Jones who has been called lazy and uncoachable. Homer Bailey is supposedly lazy and uncoachable and there have been rumors. I think it would be insane to give Jones anything more than the minimum and then you could roll the dice even though I think most would be very disappointed. I think his goose is cooked. Canseco basically said his steroid use helped him because he was lazy, and I've never heard Jose Canseco and coachable in the same sentence. Wasn't Loaisa considered to be very lazy? He acquired him twice. IIRC, when Jones was a FA last year, Ozzie was really high on him, but KW didn't share the love. I doubt the 2008 performance raised his opinion, but for the minimum he may think it might be worth seeing if he could legitimately beat out Owens and BA and Wise. I think if it was a fair competition he would probably come in 4th. The "glut" at 2nd base is Lillibridge who many scouts feel will top out as a utility guy, Nix a minor leaguer released by Colorado and Beckham a guy probably a couple hundred AB away who could play SS perhaps, that's where the White Sox are supposedly going to have in play in the minors. This could move Ramirez to CF.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:41 PM) Come on Dick, stop trying to stretch Royce Ring into Gavin Floyd to make an iffy point as it is. KW has dont alot of work to collect arms like Gavin and Danks and is not going to trade them for Brian Roberts just to fill a lead off hole. Its no stretch. I don't think he'd even consider Floyd for Roberts as much as I personally would love it. Its just that it is not as unprecedented as you claim.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) Please re-read the quote you are basing your argument on. PROVEN MLB PITCHING does not equal Royce Ring PROVEN MLB PITCHING doesn't include Gavin Floyd's 1 season of success either. Career ERA of 4.98 and career WHIP of 1.436 is hardly proven. KW traded a PROVEN MLB PITCHER for one year of Orlando Cabrera as well. Roberts is far superior offensively.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 01:43 PM) Sounds like a rumor to drive up site traffic. He clearly is not aware of the value of Floyd, and also doesnt appear to have watched him pitch much. He checked out his stats on Yahoo.com and decided that it might make sense. He's not a hack like Cowley. On Jan 26 his blog entry included this: If Erik Bedard is still listed on the Orioles’ 40-man roster beyond next week, I’ll be very surprised. My crystal ball keeps showing Adam Jones, George Sherrill and Chris Tillman reporting to Fort Lauderdale Stadium. They have another guy with them, but his image is fuzzy. He was off a bit as Bedard was traded Feb 9, but all 3 of the guys he mentioned from Seattle were part of the deal. I still don't see how KW finds this move attractive unless he's pretty sure Floyd is a house of cards.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:11 PM) So, your answer is never? No. Roberts is light years ahead of where Alomar was when KW traded Ring for him. And giving Canseco any money at that point was overpaying. Andruw Jones will be playing for the minimum for some team other than the Dodgers next season. Canseco got a little more than that. I don't want Jones on the White Sox either. Anyone who constantly b****ed about Uribe, Anderson, Wise etc. are hypocrites if they clamour for Andruw Jones, a guy who has hit a combined .205 his last 2 seasons and struck out 76 times in 209 AB last season.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 03:03 PM) When has KW traded a proven young first round major league arm for an older 2B, and when has he gone out and signed a notoriously lazy, overpaid, possible PED user? He did trade Royce Ring, his first round pick for Robby Alomar, and signed Jose Canseco and actually apologized he couldn't pay him more than he did.

BP's take on Homer Bailey pre-2008: It's been around for less than 50 innings at the major league level, but Bailey's Ebby Calvin LaLoosh impression is aready starting to wear thin. In the movie, by the time "Nuke" reached the big leagues, he'd experienced some life lessons and gained some maturity. Bailey, on the other hand, appears disinterested to coaches and indifferent to opposing players-not the attitude you want to see from someone who still has a lot to learn about the craft of pitching. It's too soon to declare him the latest Texas schoolboy bust, but 2007 was a disappointment for a prospect who looked like he had the pure stuff to take the league by storm. Then came 2008. He's far from a sure thing. If he can't be in the Cincinatti Reds' rotation what makes him so desirable to fans of the White Sox?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 3, 2009 -> 05:58 AM) But why would any team offer KW pitching (except for an exorbidant price?) unless we'd already had these other deals in place and they were waiting on a Roberts deal (conditional)...like the Bailey/Dye swap? KW can't trade Roberts and then be at the mercy of every GM in the league, he's too smart for that. I still prefer a discounted Orlando Hudson to giving up Floyd for Roberts. We can control Hudson's price for 2-3 years, and perhaps he goes to CF as a band aid for that problem. http://masnsports.com/index_blog_roch.html (Getz/Floyd for Roberts is the projected deal) Getting more interesting...apparently the Orioles are really interested in and high on Chris Getz, even going back to his Michigan days. Reading this about Getz, I don't know why, it almost makes me not want to give him up....we tend to undervalue some of our own players and overvalue players on other teams. Of course, the opposite/reverse is true for many Sox fans as well. The only thing I can think of is acquiring Roberts for Getz and Floyd, and I still think the report that KW would even consider it is bunk, especially if Roberts were a one year rental, would probably make Ramirez a future CF. It probably would mean Beckham would remain a SS, and he has said the White Sox want him to continue to play SS in the minors.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:46 PM) http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AuPp...p&type=lgns from Moores, who is divorcing. The economy is tough and owners of teams will have you believe owning a MLB team isn't a way to make money, yet all the teams for sale seem to find buyers. You can't sell a house, but a baseball team? No problem. I think owning a team is a little more lucrative than they want anyone to believe.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:50 PM) $12.2M signing bonus ($5.1M in 2008, $2.1M in 2009, $5M in 2010) 08:$9M, 09:$15M no-trade clause perks: suite on road Jones to donate $0.15M annually to club charity Very, very generous of him, only $150,000, of which he'll get 1/3rd back in a tax deduction. So he's still owed $22.1 million. The Dodgers would need to eat somewhere between $14-16 million of that before KW would think about biting on this deal for one year. If KW is willing to give a guy who has played like Jones has the past 2 seasons $6-8 million, he's insane. What's going to happen is his salary will be deferred and the Dodgers will wind up releasing him unless someone wants to give up something for a guy who made Juan Uribe look like a right handed Ted Williams in 2009. 76 strikeouts in just over 200 AB. A .249 slugging pct.? I forgot that if he is released, he'll be playing for the minimum, so maybe KW would take a chance there, but I would guess he'd go to a team that appears more of a lock to compete for a trophy especially with his current agent.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Jan 2, 2009 -> 10:15 PM) Andruw's historical numbers are worth much more than that, no matter how bad he is now. No way. He can't crack LA's line-up. He's paid more money than Bobby Abreu will get. If he does anything at all he will be gone in a season. The only thing he's worth is the hot dog vendor who yells "hot dogs" at the top of his lungs every other step he takes.