Dick Allen

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:49 PM) Because he said he wouldn't start the guy? Don't be ridiculous. I know you hate KW, but at least be logical. Yes. I'm being very logical. The point you are missing is he made Cabrera less attractive on the open market by offering arbitration. A typical bench player isn't worth the draft picks let alone the 8 figure salary. Then trying to intimidate or suggest he not accept the offer, and that if he did, he would be on the bench. For a team that supposedly is at its payroll threshold now, per KW, it makes zero sense to have an $11-12 million player riding pine. The greivance I believe wouldn't be so much about riding pine as much as the comments made. Trying to influence a decision and a right through scare tactics. I really don't hate KW. II just don't drink his kool-aid with every meal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:46 PM) Agreed, if he's not bluffing, we're looking at a tough 2009. I can't believe how much stock is being put in Lillibridge, Marquez, and Nix. If he isn't bluffing, I hope OC accepts arbitration.

In his conference call today, KW said he is right at the break even point now as far as payroll is concerned. That's scary.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) i don't think a grievance would hold up. The manager can play whomever he wishes. If they fine him for complaining about it or don't allow him in the dugout he would have a case. I don't think not playing a player is a grievable (I don't think that's a word but you get the point) offense. Making a player less attractive to other teams because they have to forfeit a 1st round pick, and saying he won't be playing because of Chris Getz, a minor leauger who was waived by the Rockies and a guy who hit .220 in AAA will have some fallout IMO.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:33 PM) Not a chance that any grievance can be won by him. KW has been clear that he's not a starter next year, if he chooses to take the arb offer then it's his own damn fault. Even if he were to file a grievance, what could he possibly win??? They can't make ozzie play him. No, but they might strip a draft pick or two from the White Sox.

"As we sit now, we're bumping up against our break even point as far as payroll " KW 12/4/2008.

The one thing I took out of the Stone interview was it seems like JD is a goner. Considering all the praise they have given JD over the years, dangling him out to every team basically in such a public fashion seems curious. I wonder if his problems with OC cost him some points with the White Sox hierarchy.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:53 PM) I still think that the best deal for him would be to sign a one year deal with a team that intends on starting him the whole season. That will give him a chance to build value and go for one more big deal next offseason while he's still young enough to get a 3-5 year contract. He would at the minimum probably be platooning if he signs with the sox this year, not an ideal place for him. If he's only going to get a one year deal, arbitration is the way to go. If KW really plans on sitting him,(although we've always been told the line-up is the manager's decision) there will be grievances filed. It really makes no sense offering a player arbitration, and paying him $11-12 million and sitting him for guys making $400k who haven't proven anything on the major league level. Hopefully he just refuses, but I've said all along, I don't think its as cut and dried as most think.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) Cabrera will refuse arb. He'll likely get a 3 year deal for $8, 9 mill. per. When he's in his mid 30's, the years matter. I'm thinking 2 year deals right now seem to be the hot thing. He's going to try to max it out. The funny thing is, I really doubt Cabrera making $12 miilion in 2009 or $8 million, will have any affect on his life other than his ego. He's going to want more than Renteria gets, that's for sure. MLB guys are pretty good with their money. Its not like NBA players where I read 60% file for bankrupcy 5 years after retirement.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:42 PM) I just don't see it that way, but it's not a surprise we don't see eye to eye on something Williams says. Telling a guy you offered arbitration to just so you can pick up 2 higher draft choices, so you are risking an 8 figure 2009 salary on, now is being told he's not good enough to play for the White Sox anymore because of Chris Getz, Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge., yet he was their primary leadoff hitter for the central champs of 2008. OK, his comments weren't made out of spite, just solid baseball decisions. Just like calling Frank Thomas an idiot was a well thought-out comment. Please.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:36 PM) Did you really expect him not to comment when asked the question? Rogers asked it during the conference call, and Williams told him the plan if Cabrera decided to come back. Pretty simple. It is, but there are ways around the question. Something like "we will deal with that if the situation occurs". Not , he's sitting on the bench. They had problems with him for most of the year. Why not bench him then if Getz is suddenly better than him? His comments were made out of spite.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:32 PM) The difference between the way you and I are looking at this is I don't believe it will ever go that far... So the question of whether they would actually bench Cabrera is purely hypothetical and nothing more. It might not, but KW's comments don't serve a purpose. Trying scare tactics? Intimidation? Come back here and we'll bench your ass. Its all about money. It usually is.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:19 PM) KWs comment was only intended to communicate to OC and his agent, loud and clear, that he should not accept arbitration. It's not any more complicated than that. Like I said before, those comments will not intimidate them. And if you know that is what those comments were intended to accomplish don't you think OC and his agent would as well? They don't care about KW. They don't care if the White Sox really don't want him. They have known that. They care about money. He's going to do pretty well for one year if he accepts arbitration, and if he plays decently will probably be the top SS on the market next year. As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:18 PM) Cabrera is NOT Uribe. The Tigers basically kicked Renteria out of town, and he still signed a guaranteed 2 year deal. For Cabrera at 34, 2-3 years is better than just one. And he has no interest in returning, likewise with the FO and Guillen having him back. We will see. Seems like a huge gamble if you don't want the guy around for what could be a supplemental and 2nd round pick.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:12 PM) I don't get it. Sure he has size, but it isn't as if he looks horribly fat. Of course for being 19 he's huge but just make sure he's on the proper conditioning program and that size could be an asset. Supposedly he has gained a lot of weight in recent years, and 19 year olds tend to fill out even more. I'm sure the Sox weighed him and when the scale said "ouch" they told him to drop some weight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) So in case I missed it, is there anything that prevents a player who goes through the artibtration process from being traded at any time? I think he can't be traded until June 15th unless he gives his approval. But if the one year deal is more attrative than what he's being offered, KW would probably have to eat some of the contract and get garbage back to move him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:45 PM) You mean like a Freshman 15? This is the first time Viciedo has been on his own, and had access to some decent meals I am guessing. We all know what the self-control of kids away from organized oversight is for the first time. That and the fact that most people get heavier as the years go on. He has a reputation as being a bit lazy, but that could change. Then again, Prince Fielder seems to do OK with some extra girth. The thing that concerned me was his agent saying he was in great shape. Maybe that means he was heavier before his workouts. Who knows. I'll give the kid the benefit of my doubt and hope he seizes the great opportunity he has for himself. He swings hard. I like guys that swing hard.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:42 PM) Yep, KW should have just been quiet, as now OC would have a stronger case with the Player's Association if this happened. I don't understand KW being pissed off about it. When the Yankees don't offer a player arbitration for fear he'll accept, you know conditions may not be so peachy. If Cabrera is the cancer that has been reported, I wouldn't want him on the White Sox, but if he's bad for the team when he's playing and doing well, how bad is he going to be when he's sitting because he accepted KW's offer?

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:41 PM) Doc Halladay. This is a good call. Toronto is having money issues. So is AZ and supposedly Houston. Check out their rosters. Bargains may be had.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) f*** man, why does Cabrera hate us so much? Not only was he vastly overrated and really not that good, he was a "me" player. I qualify anyone that would call up the scorer during a game to complain about them giving him an error a "me" player. Now he's likely gonna accept arb? WHY!*@#*$Y@#(&*>? Its not about hate, its about maximizing his money.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:36 PM) You think KW can actually negotiate a deal with Boras? It's bound to happen sometime. I think Hahn would be the negotiator. The question is can he gain an audience with the Great Boras?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) NO, I don't read it that way at all. It's simply KW laying down the gauntlet...saying they will NOT welcome him back, that he would no longer have a position with Ramirez moving over and that he would have to fight for playing time with the young guys. It's not unlike the situation with Favre and the Packers, on a much smaller scale, of course. KW knows that OC has too much pride to play somewhere he's not wanted (even vilified by some) and where he wouldn't just be given the starting position. This is all posturing and PR, hopefully like the comments about going into year with Marquez and either Richard or Poreda as the 4/5 starters. Do you believe that will actually happen? KW is going to run into a problem with the Players Association if he does that. He makes a player less attractive to sign by offering arbitration then says, we don't want you back, even though your better than what we will have, if you accept arbitration, we will sit you. If he did sit him, it would also be a b**** slap to White Sox fans, clearly showing spite wins out over putting the best team on the field. If he doesn't want OC, he doesn't have to offer him arbitration. I don't care for OC, but I do know one thing, he won't be intimidated. It was a silly comment by an executive of a baseball team to make.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:16 PM) Gilmore follows Ryan Sweeney to make him our second recent Iowan, both second round draft picks. So I guess we'll see Santos starting and Gilmore playing in the SAL together. Should be fun to follow their progress and have a reason to be curious about the minor league boxes again with real interest. KW said Rodriguez's fastball was in the 95-96 MPH range recently, Baseball America had him topping out around 93. Big difference, if it's actually legit. And with his frame, he is projectable to get bigger and stronger and maybe add some more MPH, although he already is age 21. Also curious that KW mentioned beefing up Dominican training camps/scouting but nothing about Venezuela at all. Oh yeah, Hahn also compared Rodriquez to Thornton. Says he throws an easy 95. 6'5" 180 pounds.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 01:48 PM) Williams and the rest of the organization has to be absolutely furious right now. It's hard to plan your moves when you have a potential $10 million dollar salary hanging over your ballclub. He sure as hell hasn't dealt Vazquez and Swisher to free up salary for Cabrera's return. I'd just go out and tell Cabrera (or his agent) forthright that the team doesn't want him, and if he's playing here next season he'll be on the bench. Let them decide whether or not he's bluffing. If KW sits an $11-12 million player on the bench next year out of spite because he accepted what was offered to him just for a couple of draft picks, he should be fired if he doesn't resign. Its been reported over and over how players like Cabrera are going to be the players hurt most by the economy. If KW missed it, shame on him.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 12:43 PM) Jessie Rodgers just stated that on a conference call with Kenny, he asked what happens if Cabrera accepts arbitration. Kenny stated that Alexei is our SS, and one of the young guys will be our 2nd baseman. If Cabrera comes back, he will be on the bench. If that's the case, KW should offer his resignation. Cabrera would still give this team the best chance to win and if he didn't want him on the team and didn't think he was better than Chris Getz than maybe he should think other teams won't want to pay him the $11-12 million a year he will get in arbitration and give up a draft pick. Ridiculous comments. If Chris Getz is better than Cabrera, he should have been playing against Tampa in the playoffs.