Dick Allen

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:32 PM) The difference between the way you and I are looking at this is I don't believe it will ever go that far... So the question of whether they would actually bench Cabrera is purely hypothetical and nothing more. It might not, but KW's comments don't serve a purpose. Trying scare tactics? Intimidation? Come back here and we'll bench your ass. Its all about money. It usually is.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:19 PM) KWs comment was only intended to communicate to OC and his agent, loud and clear, that he should not accept arbitration. It's not any more complicated than that. Like I said before, those comments will not intimidate them. And if you know that is what those comments were intended to accomplish don't you think OC and his agent would as well? They don't care about KW. They don't care if the White Sox really don't want him. They have known that. They care about money. He's going to do pretty well for one year if he accepts arbitration, and if he plays decently will probably be the top SS on the market next year. As a White Sox fan, if OC accepted arbitration and the White Sox just plopped him on the bench and played guys like Getz and Nix instead, wouldn't you have a problem with that?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:18 PM) Cabrera is NOT Uribe. The Tigers basically kicked Renteria out of town, and he still signed a guaranteed 2 year deal. For Cabrera at 34, 2-3 years is better than just one. And he has no interest in returning, likewise with the FO and Guillen having him back. We will see. Seems like a huge gamble if you don't want the guy around for what could be a supplemental and 2nd round pick.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:12 PM) I don't get it. Sure he has size, but it isn't as if he looks horribly fat. Of course for being 19 he's huge but just make sure he's on the proper conditioning program and that size could be an asset. Supposedly he has gained a lot of weight in recent years, and 19 year olds tend to fill out even more. I'm sure the Sox weighed him and when the scale said "ouch" they told him to drop some weight.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) So in case I missed it, is there anything that prevents a player who goes through the artibtration process from being traded at any time? I think he can't be traded until June 15th unless he gives his approval. But if the one year deal is more attrative than what he's being offered, KW would probably have to eat some of the contract and get garbage back to move him.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:45 PM) You mean like a Freshman 15? This is the first time Viciedo has been on his own, and had access to some decent meals I am guessing. We all know what the self-control of kids away from organized oversight is for the first time. That and the fact that most people get heavier as the years go on. He has a reputation as being a bit lazy, but that could change. Then again, Prince Fielder seems to do OK with some extra girth. The thing that concerned me was his agent saying he was in great shape. Maybe that means he was heavier before his workouts. Who knows. I'll give the kid the benefit of my doubt and hope he seizes the great opportunity he has for himself. He swings hard. I like guys that swing hard.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:42 PM) Yep, KW should have just been quiet, as now OC would have a stronger case with the Player's Association if this happened. I don't understand KW being pissed off about it. When the Yankees don't offer a player arbitration for fear he'll accept, you know conditions may not be so peachy. If Cabrera is the cancer that has been reported, I wouldn't want him on the White Sox, but if he's bad for the team when he's playing and doing well, how bad is he going to be when he's sitting because he accepted KW's offer?

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:41 PM) Doc Halladay. This is a good call. Toronto is having money issues. So is AZ and supposedly Houston. Check out their rosters. Bargains may be had.

QUOTE (BearSox @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:40 PM) f*** man, why does Cabrera hate us so much? Not only was he vastly overrated and really not that good, he was a "me" player. I qualify anyone that would call up the scorer during a game to complain about them giving him an error a "me" player. Now he's likely gonna accept arb? WHY!*@#*$Y@#(&*>? Its not about hate, its about maximizing his money.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:36 PM) You think KW can actually negotiate a deal with Boras? It's bound to happen sometime. I think Hahn would be the negotiator. The question is can he gain an audience with the Great Boras?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:31 PM) NO, I don't read it that way at all. It's simply KW laying down the gauntlet...saying they will NOT welcome him back, that he would no longer have a position with Ramirez moving over and that he would have to fight for playing time with the young guys. It's not unlike the situation with Favre and the Packers, on a much smaller scale, of course. KW knows that OC has too much pride to play somewhere he's not wanted (even vilified by some) and where he wouldn't just be given the starting position. This is all posturing and PR, hopefully like the comments about going into year with Marquez and either Richard or Poreda as the 4/5 starters. Do you believe that will actually happen? KW is going to run into a problem with the Players Association if he does that. He makes a player less attractive to sign by offering arbitration then says, we don't want you back, even though your better than what we will have, if you accept arbitration, we will sit you. If he did sit him, it would also be a b**** slap to White Sox fans, clearly showing spite wins out over putting the best team on the field. If he doesn't want OC, he doesn't have to offer him arbitration. I don't care for OC, but I do know one thing, he won't be intimidated. It was a silly comment by an executive of a baseball team to make.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 06:16 PM) Gilmore follows Ryan Sweeney to make him our second recent Iowan, both second round draft picks. So I guess we'll see Santos starting and Gilmore playing in the SAL together. Should be fun to follow their progress and have a reason to be curious about the minor league boxes again with real interest. KW said Rodriguez's fastball was in the 95-96 MPH range recently, Baseball America had him topping out around 93. Big difference, if it's actually legit. And with his frame, he is projectable to get bigger and stronger and maybe add some more MPH, although he already is age 21. Also curious that KW mentioned beefing up Dominican training camps/scouting but nothing about Venezuela at all. Oh yeah, Hahn also compared Rodriquez to Thornton. Says he throws an easy 95. 6'5" 180 pounds.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 01:48 PM) Williams and the rest of the organization has to be absolutely furious right now. It's hard to plan your moves when you have a potential $10 million dollar salary hanging over your ballclub. He sure as hell hasn't dealt Vazquez and Swisher to free up salary for Cabrera's return. I'd just go out and tell Cabrera (or his agent) forthright that the team doesn't want him, and if he's playing here next season he'll be on the bench. Let them decide whether or not he's bluffing. If KW sits an $11-12 million player on the bench next year out of spite because he accepted what was offered to him just for a couple of draft picks, he should be fired if he doesn't resign. Its been reported over and over how players like Cabrera are going to be the players hurt most by the economy. If KW missed it, shame on him.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 12:43 PM) Jessie Rodgers just stated that on a conference call with Kenny, he asked what happens if Cabrera accepts arbitration. Kenny stated that Alexei is our SS, and one of the young guys will be our 2nd baseman. If Cabrera comes back, he will be on the bench. If that's the case, KW should offer his resignation. Cabrera would still give this team the best chance to win and if he didn't want him on the team and didn't think he was better than Chris Getz than maybe he should think other teams won't want to pay him the $11-12 million a year he will get in arbitration and give up a draft pick. Ridiculous comments. If Chris Getz is better than Cabrera, he should have been playing against Tampa in the playoffs.

I think they will sign either Lowe, Sheets or Abreu if they trade Dye. Maybe 2 of them. They have all been known to interest the Sox in the past and KW usually always gets his guy, even when its a few seasons too late. I will also shock the world and even though I really don't think it will happen say KW will trade AJP and sign a toasted Ivan Rodriquez to catch for a couple years while waiting for Flowers. Abreu and Rodriquez are Ozzie's buddies.

Rick Hahn was on Tribune live and he reiterated the Gilmore/Crede comparison, then one of the guys asked him to compare Flowers to someone, and he said he didn't like to do that sort of thing. What? You just did. As far as Viciedo, you have to be concerned when they want a 19 year old to lose weight.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:38 AM) That he was. It would also be pretty crazy seeing as how Lowe is a Boras client too. Eventually, the White Sox are going to have to sign a Boras client. We will see what he signs for. The initial report I think said he wanted $17 million a year or something like that, then I read a week or 2 later that he hadn't discussed money with any team. Today I read he has an offer from the Phillies and another team that isn't Boston or the Yankees. Some people like to think every prospect KW acquires will be a star, ignoring the obvious,.I think every time a mystery team is mentioned for a big name, its the White Sox, ignoring the obvious.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:44 AM) A couple of million dollars for Cabrera wouldn't prevent the Sox from doing anything else they would have done over this winter. Its a waste of a couple of million. Its pissing it away on a longshot. Spend it on the Dominican Academy or something like that. Lightning can be caught in a bottle, but not all the time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:40 AM) The Sox payroll is reportedly at $96 mill right now. Unless they shed Dye and then make no virtually no signings at all, it will be in the $100 million range. I read yesterday it was $82 million for 14 players. The other guys except for Jenks will make peanuts.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:32 AM) The Sox could very well be the team to give Cabrera the couple million, but the big difference, to me, between MacDougal and Cabrera is that, at this point in time, there's no long term commitment to Cabrera as there was with MacDougal. I'd also much rather give Cabrera a shot in the rotation rather than Marquez. If Marquez is anything like Floyd or Danks at all, another half season or so in AAA should be a necessity as is. He gave up 199 hits in 180 innings. He walked 90 guys, actually lowering his career walk rate. He hit 18 guys. In 180 innings, 108 get on base without having to swing a bat, let alone a guy who supposedly is so gifted his hard to hit gives up 199 hits in 180 innings. There's more than just a minor tweak or two that needs to be done to turn it around. This is a major reclimation project that has an excellent chance to fail. Throwing a couple of million at it doesn't make any sense.

I think if enough payroll is cleared, KW wants Derek Lowe. Wasn't he supposedly a target when they were dangling OC this past summer?

QUOTE (striker62704 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) I still think Dye, Konerko or Thome could be dealt. Remember the 2005 team that won it all? We won with Everett as our DH and I think Konerko was the only 100+ RBI guy. Pitching and timely hitting is all it takes. The market for Thome who can only DH and makes $15 million is slim to none and he has a no trade. He's a White Sox. Dye can go. I think the Sox wouldn't mind trading Paulie, but finding a team that really will take him, and he will agree to go to will be tough. If the D-Backs can't afford Randy Johnson at $5 million a year, they aren't trading for Paulie. That would leave the Angels IMO. I think he stays.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:19 AM) I think Cabrera is worth a shot even if it's just because he's free (in the sense that he won't cost any players). I had no problem with the Sisco move and I believe I applauded it at the time and the MacDougal deal wasn't terrible at the time but has since become an absolute disaster of a deal. If Cabrera blows, he blows and he's in the pen or off the team come midseason. I had no problem with the Sisco move either, but giving Cabrera a couple of million is just replicating what you are doing with MacDougal. If he was willing to take a non guarantee, I'd have no problem, but someone is going to pay him something and since KW claims he only has $.75 and things cost $1.00, I hope he spends his money more wisely.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 10:08 AM) Before people start sticking a fork in Lillibridge because of his one bad season... Take a look at the comparison of his 2007 and 2008 AAA stats. GM A-B R Hits 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SB CS SB% 87 321 47 92 14 2 10 41 20 59 .287 .331 .436 .767 28 5 85% 90 355 46 78 18 7 04 39 33 90 .220 .294 .344 .638 23 7 77% Surprising similar seasons... Roughly the same number of games, at bats, etc... What's the biggest difference that drives most of the numbers? 14 less hits in 2008... And 6 less homeruns.... Those two figures account for almost all the difference in his average, OBP, and SLG. That's the problem with using averages from small samples. It's pretty easy to envision a guy who is getting shuttled between AAA and the majors pressing and having his timing thrown off to result in getting 14 less hits over 355 at-bats... isn't it? So, I'm inclined to think 2008 may just turn out to be an off-year for him. In 2007, he was considered a better prospect than Escobar. Could turn out to be a classic KW value pickup. 14 less hits and 6 less homers in 34 more AB. So blow that .220 off in AAA, once in the majors to stay playing against even better players, he will do much better? Doesn't seem logical to me. He also struck out 31 more times. There's nothing there to show he's ready to contribute on the major league level yet.

QUOTE (SoxFan101 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) Dont you think some of what made Mazzone seem so good is the calibur of pitchers he was able to work with, for the majority of his time in Atlanta he had Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz and those 3 make any pitching coach look good. Not to mention they are pitching in a great pitchers park, I mean honestly nobody really flourished in Baltimore under him. Also, sometimes a guy just needs a different way of learning things and it clicks, regardless if Coop is a better pitching coach or not. When he was with Atlanta someone did a study believing he couldn't be as good as people thought he was and they looked at guys Mazzone coached at least one year. They compared the pitchers' ERAs with him as a coach and without him as a coach. There was a difference of 1.50 runs a game in his favor. Not everyone is going to flourish under even the finest of coaches. Cooper has had his share of failures as well. Cabrera can't throw a strike to save his life. How did that work out when Coop worked with Sisco and MacDougal?