Dick Allen

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 02:09 PM) Has the thread title changed recently or am I way behind? Cabrera has definetly excepted arb? I read that earlier. Last I heard he said there was a slight chance he'd accept.

QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 08:03 AM) KW's idea of a 1 or 2 is different than most people's idea. He'll take 1 or 2 potential. Last year he called Floyd and Danks 1 and 2...and everyone laughed. He called Gio a #1 as well.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) I think for every post you've made criticizing KW for offering arbitration... there would be 5 posts criticizing him if we didn't and missed out on the picks. I didn't know that would influence KW's decision. Thanks for the insight. The only thing I've criticized is offering arbitration if you aren't prepared to have him come back. Obviously, its still possible he will. Ozzie doesn't seem to mind if he does.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:37 PM) 1) We signed Viciedo, Beckham and Danks....that, in and of itself, is more or less the equivalent of 3 first round draft picks, and two Top 10 draft picks in Beckham and Viciedo 2) KW and the scouting department, up until this last draft at least, have been much better at identifying undervalued but high upside players in other organizations, rather than drafting them out of HS or college 3) You add Marquez, Jimenez, Nix, Lillibridge, Nunez, Flowers, Gilmore and Santos Rodriguez, that's two more first rounders right there, and lots of upside/potential, especially from Flowers...whatever happens, the world will not end over these draft picks. I mean, we traded Ray Durham for Jon Adkins and lost a draft pick there (largely because KW and JR felt that the compensation system was going to be changed that offseason, so they would theoretically get nothing back and they also wanted to see Willie Harris at 2B, so they saved a couple of million in salary as well). You have made my point that offering the arbitration if you really don't want him, is way too risky for a couple of draft picks.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:36 PM) OK.... help me out here. Is your solution to this problem? (a) we shouldn't have offered Cabrera arbitration at all (B) KW should have just kept his mouth shut and not said he'd ride the bench © other (describe) As I stated earlier, way before arbitration had to be offered, if the White Sox didn't want Cabrera on the team, especially at the price his arbitration status will bring, they should not offer him arbitration. With the current economy, his arb figure is too much of a risk for a supplemental draft pick and a low first or high second round selection. I also believe KW shouldn't have said what he said. Ozzie said something totally different today.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 01:01 PM) Offering arbitration was the right move. If it backfires, Cabrera can still be moved - even later in the offseason. All these teams that are saying they don't need shortstops or are "seriously considering signing Adam Everett" might start panicking when they get to spring training and see some of these guys hit. Cabrera is still a top 15 shortstop. He can't be traded until June 15 without his consent. The teams looking at Adam Everett aren't looking to add the salary figure Cabrera will net from arbitration. So he will go to a place where he wants, the White Sox will get no draft picks, and will have to eat salary assuming of course, he isn't as good as Chris Getz, Brent Lillibridge and (gulp) Jayson Nix, as KW claims.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:56 AM) Rickey. Not only does he have the credentials but his speech would be epic If a voter doesn't put Rickey on their ballot, they should have their voting rights stripped.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:46 AM) I am pretty neutral about Cabrera, but KW didn't make him less attractive on the open market. What he did was ensure the Sox benefited in some way - this being the draft picks- when OC signed with anothet team. It's just proper baseball bizness. So you are saying having it cost you a first round draft pick doesn't shrink OC's market in any way? Interesting. Its also proper baseball business to accept arbitration if it is offered, without snide remarks about how you are destined to the bench which, if true, we all know isn't based on baseball decisions. It looks like the Dodgers are after Jack Wilson now and he's willing to restructure his contract to get there, so the list of OC's possible suitors probably gets shorter, and the teams remaining probably are looking for bargains.

QUOTE (scenario @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:16 AM) My guess is that Corky Miller is the new Paul Phillips... not the new Toby Hall. One thing is certain, it will be hard for the White Sox not to improve the production offensively and defensively of the back-up C position of the last 2 seasons.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:06 AM) The wonders of Bill Bavasi. How he ever lasted so long as the M's GM I'll never know. He's the Matt Millen of MLB.

QUOTE (shipps @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:10 AM) There seems to be a reeeeeally good chance there are no big names or even semi big names coming to the Sox this off season.Everyone says its a smokescreen but this might be nothing but a rebuilding off season where we bring in nothing but young prospects,which is something I didnt expect from KW. The more I hear, the more I think you could be right, but I still can't see them purging that much of the payroll while raising ticket prices. Something big is going to happen. If not and they aren't successful on the field after doing that, it would be a huge problem.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 5, 2008 -> 11:07 AM) The big problem is that you would have to carry 3 catchers to do that, just in case of injury. Yes and if you don't what ultimately happens is you will have to hit for Miller during the games he does start, and AJ's off day becomes a mute point. Miller might actually be worse than Hall as a whole. I wish the Sox would sign Blanco and end the ridiculousness.

Frank Tanana is 34th all time in innings pitched, 52nd all time in wins and in the top 25 all time for strikeouts. He's never been considered a HOF type, neither should Harold.

I don't think Fields would be a part of this deal. I think Cantu would be an OF who would take JD's line-up spot.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:49 PM) Because he said he wouldn't start the guy? Don't be ridiculous. I know you hate KW, but at least be logical. Yes. I'm being very logical. The point you are missing is he made Cabrera less attractive on the open market by offering arbitration. A typical bench player isn't worth the draft picks let alone the 8 figure salary. Then trying to intimidate or suggest he not accept the offer, and that if he did, he would be on the bench. For a team that supposedly is at its payroll threshold now, per KW, it makes zero sense to have an $11-12 million player riding pine. The greivance I believe wouldn't be so much about riding pine as much as the comments made. Trying to influence a decision and a right through scare tactics. I really don't hate KW. II just don't drink his kool-aid with every meal.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:46 PM) Agreed, if he's not bluffing, we're looking at a tough 2009. I can't believe how much stock is being put in Lillibridge, Marquez, and Nix. If he isn't bluffing, I hope OC accepts arbitration.

In his conference call today, KW said he is right at the break even point now as far as payroll is concerned. That's scary.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:22 PM) i don't think a grievance would hold up. The manager can play whomever he wishes. If they fine him for complaining about it or don't allow him in the dugout he would have a case. I don't think not playing a player is a grievable (I don't think that's a word but you get the point) offense. Making a player less attractive to other teams because they have to forfeit a 1st round pick, and saying he won't be playing because of Chris Getz, a minor leauger who was waived by the Rockies and a guy who hit .220 in AAA will have some fallout IMO.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 08:33 PM) Not a chance that any grievance can be won by him. KW has been clear that he's not a starter next year, if he chooses to take the arb offer then it's his own damn fault. Even if he were to file a grievance, what could he possibly win??? They can't make ozzie play him. No, but they might strip a draft pick or two from the White Sox.

"As we sit now, we're bumping up against our break even point as far as payroll " KW 12/4/2008.

The one thing I took out of the Stone interview was it seems like JD is a goner. Considering all the praise they have given JD over the years, dangling him out to every team basically in such a public fashion seems curious. I wonder if his problems with OC cost him some points with the White Sox hierarchy.

QUOTE (bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:53 PM) I still think that the best deal for him would be to sign a one year deal with a team that intends on starting him the whole season. That will give him a chance to build value and go for one more big deal next offseason while he's still young enough to get a 3-5 year contract. He would at the minimum probably be platooning if he signs with the sox this year, not an ideal place for him. If he's only going to get a one year deal, arbitration is the way to go. If KW really plans on sitting him,(although we've always been told the line-up is the manager's decision) there will be grievances filed. It really makes no sense offering a player arbitration, and paying him $11-12 million and sitting him for guys making $400k who haven't proven anything on the major league level. Hopefully he just refuses, but I've said all along, I don't think its as cut and dried as most think.

QUOTE (beck72 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:47 PM) Cabrera will refuse arb. He'll likely get a 3 year deal for $8, 9 mill. per. When he's in his mid 30's, the years matter. I'm thinking 2 year deals right now seem to be the hot thing. He's going to try to max it out. The funny thing is, I really doubt Cabrera making $12 miilion in 2009 or $8 million, will have any affect on his life other than his ego. He's going to want more than Renteria gets, that's for sure. MLB guys are pretty good with their money. Its not like NBA players where I read 60% file for bankrupcy 5 years after retirement.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:42 PM) I just don't see it that way, but it's not a surprise we don't see eye to eye on something Williams says. Telling a guy you offered arbitration to just so you can pick up 2 higher draft choices, so you are risking an 8 figure 2009 salary on, now is being told he's not good enough to play for the White Sox anymore because of Chris Getz, Jayson Nix and Brent Lillibridge., yet he was their primary leadoff hitter for the central champs of 2008. OK, his comments weren't made out of spite, just solid baseball decisions. Just like calling Frank Thomas an idiot was a well thought-out comment. Please.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 4, 2008 -> 07:36 PM) Did you really expect him not to comment when asked the question? Rogers asked it during the conference call, and Williams told him the plan if Cabrera decided to come back. Pretty simple. It is, but there are ways around the question. Something like "we will deal with that if the situation occurs". Not , he's sitting on the bench. They had problems with him for most of the year. Why not bench him then if Getz is suddenly better than him? His comments were made out of spite.