Dick Allen

QUOTE (BearSox @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 09:36 AM) I have virtually no problem with trading Jenks, as long as it is for maximum value. I for one believe that Jenks is going to regress, and that a serious injury is possibly in the not to distant future for him. I don't know what we could get from the Mets though. I'd like Beltran, but how realistic is that? Its a lot more realistic than Reyes. But I doubt its very realistic.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 10:22 AM) You know this how? I didn't say Jenks for Reyes straight up. I'm willing to say that any deal that brings us Reyes would include Jenks. Because 25 year old SS that bring to the table what Reyes brings to the table do not get traded, especially from teams with an almost unlimited budget. Why would the Mets trade him for Jenks a guy if they have him 2 years from now will be making money that K-Rod and Fuentes are asking for if he's still successful, and create a huge hole at SS? They could just sign the FA and have Reyes play SS. How many SS do as many things as this guy? They would be crazy to trade him and won't unless maybe KW wants to add Ramirez and Danks with Jenks. Then I suppose its possible. This isn't X-Box. There is absolutely no reason for Minaya to even consider trading Reyes.

Viciedo, born in March 1989, is listed at 6-foot-1, 210 pounds, but reports are that he was bigger than that last year at the World Junior Championship in Mexico. Viciedo has excellent power and hitting ability, however, with one scout comparing him to Giants prospect Angel Villalona. He slugged over .500 two of the last three seasons in Cuba’s Serie Nacional, its top-level league, hitting 14 homers in 2005-2006—as a 16-year-old—in his best season. "His body could go the same route as Livan Hernandez, and when I saw him in Mexico, he wasn’t very good at third base anymore," one international scouting director said. "But he can really hit; in fact, I think he’s probably a better hitter than Villalona." Villolona received a $2.1 million bonus from the Giants in 2006 and is currently playing for low Class A Augusta. Another scout who had seen Viciedo was less enthused about him as a player, pegging him as a first baseman-only hitter with a bad body. "You know everybody liked Kendry Morales," the scout said, referring to the Angels’ Cuban DH/first baseman, "and he had some other tools. But his body’s gone south and he’s pretty much just a DH. So I think it’s premature to get too excited about this guy." And here's another Standing 6-2 and weighing 202 pounds, Viciedo is known as a powerful batter and a versatile defender, capable of playing shortstop, third base and outfield, and he even can pitch. His fastball has been clocked at more than 90 mph, but he said his pitching days are over. Villalona hit .263 in the Sally League with 16 homers this year as a 17 year old. He was ranked the 33rd best prospect in MLB. Viciedo almost seems like Miguel Cabrera. Really starting to struggle on defense, getting heavier, but can hit.

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Nov 8, 2008 -> 09:00 AM) Did anyone watch the Mets bullpen blow save after save after Wagner went down? Jenks probably has more value to them than any other team in MLB. If he gets traded it will be in a package for either Reyes(my guess), Beltran(maybe), or Wright(doubtful). I remember Steve Phillips saying KW's first question to him always was,what's it going to take to get Reyes. The Sox could make the transition to a speed team rather quickly with just a few moves. Just because it's been mentioned alot, let's say the Sox move Konerko for Figgins. Then trade Broadway for Tavares after acquiring Reyes.They would field a linup that looks like: Reyes-SS Figgins-3B Qentin-LF Dye-RF Thome-DH Ramirez-2B Swisher-1B AJ-C Tavares-CF There is absolutely no way Reyes comes to the Sox in a deal for Jenks. NO WAY. If it took Reyes to get Jenks, they would settle for one of the FA pitchers and overpay them immensely.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 08:00 PM) Right, and they start getting expensive with those deals. Kazmir-2009: $6 million, 2010: $8 million, 2011: $12 million, 2012: $13.5 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, Crawford-2009: $8.25 million club option w/$2.5 million buyout, 2010: $10 million club option w/$1.25 million buyout. Pena-2009: $8 million, 2010: $10.125 million Longoria is pretty cheap for the next 3 years. The point is, the core is going to start getting expensive, and they still are going to have to get Upton and Garza done long term. Exactly, and the other thing to keep in mind is they still weren't selling out, and really nowhere near it in August and September when that team was nails. If they don't start to draw, they will be the AL's answer to the Marlins, forced to trade all their talent when they start to make money for prospects.

The scouting reports I have read have been all over the place for this guy. Some say at 19 he's already lost a lot defensively and is a 1b/DH at best with a Livan Hernandez body in the making. Some say he could even play SS in a pinch and can pitch. We will see. If he's only 19, I think its a longshot he makes any impact in Chicago for a while, but the White Sox may see this as an extension of their draft. Considering they ranked 23rd in MLB in handing out bonuses, maybe they feel this is a good gamble. They won't get him as cheaply as they got Alexei, ironically because of Alexei's success.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:30 PM) I see Jenks going before Buehrle. I don't think KW is 100% confident he can bank on repeats from Danks and Floyd in 2009. Maybe. He is more likely to get predictability out of Buerhle and Vazquez IMO. Look at Cliff Lee. I'm not saying Danks will repeat his career path, but it's an interesting comparison. Of course, there was the "downswing" that came before he emerged last year as the best AL lefty, at least for one season. Floyd, while he was our stopper in the second half...it seems his ERA kept creeping up and up and up over the year, and part of that's natural, he pitched so many great games the first couple of months out of the blocks. You had the feeling he would end up around 4.50 if the season continued another month though. If you do trade Mark, do think KW is ready to look at Danks as a 1 and Floyd as a 2? I think the only reason would be if you traded Jenks/Buehrle and either Konerko or Dye and invested that money in someone like Sabathia as the #1, and I would be seriously shocked if that happened. Other than CC, there's no true "ace" pitcher out there that justifies spending north of $15 million per season. And no, while AJ Burnett has "ace" stuff, I don't for a second put him in the Halladay/Sabathia/Santana class. I've seen one argument that what the White Sox do need is a legitimate ace. Who knows. I do agree that it wouldn't be a shocker if Danks and Floyd not only do not repeat their successes in 2008, they may even take a step or two back. People I'm sure will be shocked when I say, especially Floyd.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 07:17 PM) Are you sure you're not confusing years? Weren't Thomas and Ordonez out for most of 2004 and not 2003? I'm not sure...at one point around mid-season, after we'd chased down KC, we looked really good for about 2-3 weeks, but it's not like we were much over 10-15 games above .500. Maybe we had the most "talented" team in the majors then, but not the best overall. Cotts was getting some starts. Loiaza really wore down in the second half...and Colon was never really 100% motivated to pitch for us except when he felt like it. But yes, Koch was a huge issue, too. I don't think you can assume Contreras will come back into the bullpen...maybe. It seems with the way he prepares and needs time to get warmed up (like El Duque), it wouldn't be the best idea. Yeah, theoretically, his stuff would be even better over an inning or two. He could really let go of that fastball, and throwing everyday could actually have the affect of getting him not to overthrow the forkball. Then again, that forkball would lead to a lot of WP's in late-inning situations. As we know, he would be absolutely atrocious holding on runners. Then again, hard to be be worse than Gavin and Jenks in this area. Maybe it's something he could improve upon...but he's always had a pretty slow overall delivery to the plate, and that won't change, unless he fundamentally changes something with his delivery to compensate for the achilles', in which case he'll probably end up with an arm or shoulder problem and be done. Somebody mentioned Teixeira...haven't seen him pitch. I know Link did well but really isn't under any serious consideration internally. I think you have to look at Thornton, Dotel and Adam Russell. That's where I would begin the search at least. Yes I meant Ozzie's first season, 2004 was when Frank and Maggs went down. In 2003, Loaisa was awesome. Colon was solid, Buerhle started out horribly and rebounded. Garland was what he normally was Koch blew. The White Sox were in first place September 14 when they took the rubber game at Fenway when CLee got stuck on the Green Monster. With Koch being as bad as he was, he was replaced by Flash Gordon, Foulke was outstanding with the A's. The White Sox may have won that division. They had a solid team, but fell apart late. Their bullpen could have been Sullivan, Gordon, Foulke and an unbelievably good Marte. If they won, Ozzie may still be coaching 3rd somewhere. As far as Contreras, the White Sox did say when and if he returns he most likely will be used out of the bullpen.

As far as Dye is concerned, Chris Rongey last year let a cat out of the bag when he said on his show the White Sox saw Dye as a DH for 2009. He obviously got that information from someone with the White Sox. It also wouldn't surprise me if they got rid of Dye, if Griffey did come back. Chances are Dye would put up better numbers, but Griffey will be a lot cheaper.

If the Sox were to trade Jenks, I doubt Thornton would be the closer. If they didn't acquire anyone, I think it would be Dotel. Don't laugh. For the majority of his outings in 2008 he was unhittable. For several he was meat. He hadn't pitched that much in several years. I think he'll be more consistent in 2009. With Poreda on the horizon and Contreras when and if he comes back moving to the bullpen, I think if KW can get a huge return, he would deal Jenks. There are too many things pointing against KW wanting to risk huge money on Jenks, who is suddenly going to start making money. Screw in the elbow, declining K rate, expanding waistline. While he still gets things done at a great clip, he seems to make it more interesting now. To get 3.5 years like he pitched out of a waiver claim and then turn that into a nice package before you really had to pay him anything isn't all bad. KW has done a good job getting rid of pitchers. The only one to really bite him in the ass was Foulke. Hawk always talks about how Ozzie might have had another WS title if Maggs and Frank stayed healthy in 2003. Ozzie may never have been the White Sox manager had Manuel had Foulke closing games instead of Koch for most of 2003

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Nov 7, 2008 -> 01:49 PM) Dye being a future DH really doesn't hinder his value, seeing as he is only signed for one more year. He will make a very solid one year stop gap piece. There's also a mutual option for $11 million or $12 million I believe for 2010

If the Cubs get Peavy, Dempster will not be re-signed. I heard that yesterday.

QUOTE (fathom @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 04:27 PM) Daniel Cabrera sucks. He has serious health concerns right now. If anything, he'd be a throw-in instead of the main piece of a trade. There's been a lot of talk the Orioles will non-tender him. He is junk that is maybe salvageable but certainly not worth giving up anything of even slight value . I like the comparison of him to MacDougal as a starter. KW has had an eye on him for years though.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 01:23 PM) How exactly are gold gloves awarded? Like the voting process, who actually votes? This has turned to the most overrated award in baseball. I think managers and coaches vote. Considering the flak fans get for their ASG selections, I don't think these guys have done any better with their GG voting over the years.

There is no way the Orioles would trade Roberts in a deal that is anchored by Javy Vazquez. The Orioles are a million miles away from being contenders. 2 years of Javy Vazquez won't do crap for them. Although, pitching for a bad team, Javy may thrive and become decent trade bait, but that's not worth the gamble of alienating the few die hards you have left and trading the face of the franchise for a journeyman pitcher. If Roberts doesn't sign, they'll either trade him for young players, or let him Robin Ventura it and walk when the contract expires.

QUOTE (TCQ @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 10:15 AM) Penny/Pavano might be a good idea but it has been said that penny is a bad work ethic guy, which is something we dont need. Anyone know if pavano is actually healthy? If he is, chances are it won't be for long. He's another guy it makes no sense to sign if there really is any risk taken by the team. If he's willing to work cheap with incentives, give him a shot, but no guarantees.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 6, 2008 -> 10:13 AM) Are we willing to pay what Marquis got a couple of winters ago from the Cubs for Penny (3 years $21 million) or more? No way. If he would take an incentive laden deal one year deal, fine. Maybe with some kickers that guarantee 2010 if he reaches some performance standards, but the Dodgers could have exercised the option and traded him. Obviously, there wasn't much interest at $6.75 million (assuming the Dodgers would eat the $2 million they ate) for one year. Why stretch it to 3? He's fat, lazy and injured. Maybe he's got something to prove and works hard in 2009, I have no idea about his shoulder, but it would be a mistake going multiple years.

AL picks P Mike Mussina, C Joe Mauer, 1B Carlos Pena, 2B Dustin Pedroia, SS Michael Young 3B Adrian Beltre, OF Torii Hunter, OF Grady Sizemore and OF Ichiro Suzuki. Cabrera's calls to the press box didn't pay off, although Young is a horrible selection for a GG.

Penny's option was $8.75 million. Considering the buyout was $2 million, the Dodgers were only saving $6.75 million which would be a steal if he pitched anywhere near where he did before the shoulder problems. Considering the Dodgers have a better idea than any of us about his physical condition in the shoulder, the buy out tells me they must think his regaining his form is not very likely.

What was the deal with the woman who sang the National Anthem at the rally last night? Someone should have made her practice using the correct words.

Poreda has done pretty well but temper the expectations. He lasted 2/3 of an inning in the AFL last night giving up 5 runs.

QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 10:09 AM) Yeah, cause boy did he look good in September on into the playoffs. Wakefield makes $4 million a year. Last year he was 10-11 4.13 ERA. Its on par or better than what Javy does with a contender at 1/3 of the cost. The whole argument about Javy being so valuable is innings eating and strikeouts. Wakefield has eaten a lot of innings and he's $7.5 million cheaper. Strikeouts instead of pop outs or grounders isn't worth that much is especially for a starter, is it?

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 5, 2008 -> 09:54 AM) Evened out?? Shirley you must be joking. Vazquez had a grand total of 1 game where he gave up more than 4 runs and got the win. One game. All season. And he only had 3 wins all season in games where he gave up more than 3 runs. Meanwhile he got 5 losses and 3 no decisions in games where he gave up 3 runs or less. Not.even. Through 8/10/2006, Vazquez was 11-6 with a 5.13 ERA. The White Sox had scored 159 runs in his 21 starts. Pardon me while I don't shed a tear feeling sad that his record should have been much better than it was. Last year, he had 16 starts he gave up 4 or more runs. 12 starts he gave up 5 or more. In the 4 starts he gave up 4, only once did he pitch 7 innings. Cherry pick all you want, but his record is clear. He is a below .500 career pitcher with an ERA higher than his talent level. I think there are 11,500,000 ways to better spend the money paid for , in the end, very mediocre results.

He can throw and if he gets to a ball he will catch it. He's not what Hawk and DJ talk him up to be, but the worst is a huge stretch IMO, although it is over 3 seasons. I'd have to see the competition.

QUOTE (scenario @ Nov 4, 2008 -> 08:51 PM) Simply.not.true. Go back and look at the game logs. In late 2006, Javy pitched EXTREMELY well. His late season losses had nothing to do with pitching poorly. The Sox simply could not score runs because several key hitters disappeared the last two months. Again... in 2008, Javy pitched extremely well in several games where he got losses or no decisions because of lack of offensive support. Want dates? - Toronto on May 5th - Angels on May 15th - Tampa on May 31st - Oakland on July 3rd - Texas on July 21st - Toronto on September 9th In his 3 regular season games against Tampa this year, he pitched well enough to win all of them. But in the 2 games he lost, the Sox scored a total of 3 runs. The two games he pitched against Toronto and lost... he pitched well enough to win both of those. But the Sox scored a TOTAL of 1 run in those two games. He beat the Twins in two of his 3 regular season starts against them. The game he won against Cleveland on September 3rd was HUGE, because they were hot and Javy kept us from getting swept. So... you have to look at what happened in the games rather than using W-L or what happened this September to put a label on his term with the Sox. His stretch run has been stated before. What about earlier in the year when he was getting lit up but getting wins? It all evened out. The overall body of work was 11-12 with a 4.84 ERA for a team that won 90 games. He wasn't good. Certainly not $11.5 million a year good.