Dick Allen

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) Henry Blanco should have been signed yesterday, but I digress. I agree, but apparently KW can't afford him. He's already over budget. It must have dropped because when he traded Javy, he said he was right at it.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 09:56 AM) But most of MacDougal's success was as a reliever, not as a starter. Second, being named an All-Star as a Royal is about as significant over the last decade as being named to the Big 12 Honorable Mention All-Offense list. That list over the last ten or so years includes the unforgettable Ken Harvey, Mark Redman, Dean Palmer and Jose Rosado. He made the AS team in 2003 and at the break had 24 saves and a 2.59 ERA. It wasn't like Steve Swisher making the team. MacDougal also had a pretty decent year in 2005 and was pretty decent in 2006 when the Sox acquired him. His big problem then was injury risk or he might not have been available. Now its throwing strikes. Years with Cooper haven't helped him.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 12:06 AM) "...the 19-year-old now plans to start up his conditioning program in Florida with teammate and Cuban countryman Alexei Ramirez." He'll lose more than 10 pounds... He's 6'1" 246 lbs. A scout said he lost 15 lbs. for his workout. Its something that will have to be monitored. 19 years old, going from Cuba to the USA with a lot of money isn't the easiest way to lose weight.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 09:05 AM) Cabrera has much more of a major league track record (not great, albeit) than putting him in the same area code of conversation with J. Sisco. He's thrown at least a one hitter and has shown the ability to dominate at times. Sisco showed that for BRIEF flashes during his rookie season in KC. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if they tried MacDougal as a starter again...although I'm sure he and his agent might balk at the idea, due to his injury history. Just because we can name two former Royals prospects who failed doesn't mean much to me. JP Howell looked like he couldn't get a high school line-up out when he was unceremoniously dumped by the Royals, but he's become a great find for the Rays. Sometimes a change of scenery can work wonders. Even with the second tier pitchers (Wolf, Perez, Penny, Garland, etc.) you're not getting anything resembling 100% certainty....except you're paying $10-13 million a season for the priviledge of biting your fingernails...instead of $4-6 million. And I know you're not proposing we go out and sign Lowe to a 4-5 year deal. You can put him in the same area code as MacDougal who actually has had a lot more success on the major league level. In fact, MacDougal was on an all star team. Also keep in mind, not only has Cabrera been pretty much a disaster his major league career, he also has injury issues. Maybe there is a chance the White Sox sign him and he becomes the star a lot of people thought he would be 5 years ago. I think the chances are very remote. I don't see how the White Sox are going to get a guy who cannot throw enough strikes, to do just that.

QUOTE (GreatScott82 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 06:04 AM) Cabrera has NASTY stuff... i know he has a track record of being wild and he has underachieved. But man i would give him a chance to make our rotation any day of the week! It could be another Jose Contreras type thing- a guy with nasty stuff in the need of a new home. Its definitley worth a solid look at. So does Mike MacDougal. So did Andy Sisco. He would be a waste of money.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 08:35 AM) Aaron Miles isn't going to be coming back to Chicago, although the symmetry would be interesting with Uribe finally leaving after five seasons. He's very blahhhh/mehhhh defensively, and we already have Betemit and Lillibridge who are much more versatile. Lillibridge, in particular, has the combination of youth, speed and athleticism that KW craves. I guess there are SOME Miles Fanboys/Fangirls from back in the day that would love to bring Miles and Rowand back, but it's not going to happen (note, I didn't say NEVER, just highly unlikely!) I don't think Miles is a target or should be, but if these other guys are more versatile, it would be an upset. Miles played 2b,ss,3b,lf,rf,cf and p last season.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 13, 2008 -> 07:24 AM) The more quality arms (like John Van Beschoten, Cabrera and Ledezma) that we throw into the 4th/5th starter mix, the better off we'll be obviously. You're kidding, right? Why would the Sox be better throwing resources at garbage? Van Beschoten is 28 and has a career ERA over 9.00. Teams don't want him to pitch anymore. Cabrera never had an ERA at or below league average. Ledezma has never thrown more tha 85 innings at the big league level. KW already tried signing a bunch of garbage and having them compete in spring training for a job. That was the 2006 bullpen. We know how that turned out. In fact, it turned out so horribly, KW had to go get Mike MacDougal and sign him to an extension. Might as well throw him into the mix.

I was watching something yesterday, the Yankees signed those 2 but how much have they improved their staff? Mussina won 20 last year. Maybe CC wins 20, but then its a push. Burnett gets hurt all the time, if Petitte doesn't come back, I don't think they are any better especially with Riviera a year older. Father time has to catch up to him sooner or later.

Jayson Stark's guess at non-tenders: PITCHERS Daniel Cabrera Chad Gaudin Jimmy Gobble Brandon Backe Takashi Saito Tyler Yates Wil Ledezma HITTERS Marcus Thames Gabe Gross John Buck Jose Bautista Chris Burke Willy Taveras Jonny Gomes

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 12, 2008 -> 12:14 AM) They may not necessarily be giving up on Bailey, but instead getting the best out of a guy they don't even need. Check their rotation, it's great. Harangatang ( A great pitcher coming off a bad year) Arroyo (If they trade any pitcher it really should be him, but his 15 wins should trick the team into finding him worth keeping even though wins don't measure how good you are) Cueto (Could have higher ceiling than Bailey) Volquez (Amazing) Owings (Good pitcher, good future, great bat) They just lost their biggest bat in the lineup and they need someone to replace it. Dye would be perfect, and Bailey could be the key to get him here. Why hold onto Bailey? To form a six man rotation? If the Reds project Bailey to be as good as some people on this board do, and from what I can tell, they aren't scouts either, but seem to rip people who aren't so high on him asking for their scouting credentials, I find it hard to believe they would trade him for a 35 year old OF, fading defensively without the luxury of making him a DH and is signed for one season. That said, I would trade Dye for Bailey if they used Dye's money for a capable replacement, thus making the trade Dye for Bailey + replacement. Then at least, if Bailey is a bust, its no skin of the White Sox backs.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:49 PM) Ah, so now we can determine how good a top prospect in the baseball world is by the time he is 22. Dye for Bailey+ 2 other prospects is an absolute steal for the White Sox. Aren't you being hypocritical? If you can't tell a guy isn't going to live up to the hype after he's been bad, how can you tell he's a steal if he hasn't been good? Although if they spent the money saved on Abreu or Furcal I think it would be a steal as it would be those prospects for basically nothing.

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:45 PM) Well of course "f***ing trash" is hyperbole, but Homer Bailey is not very good. It absolutely astonishes me that ANYBODY smart enough to be a White Sox fan would have positive thoughts about a potential deal like this one. Are you kidding me? This guy at one time was a top prospect, just like Joe Borchard. You have to ignore any bad he's had in his career. Trading a guy you can almost guarantee will hit 30 homers and drive in 90 runs for someone like this is a steal. Just look at KW's record. Every former top prospect bust he's acquired turns out like Gavin Floyd. They will teach him a cutter and he'll be unhittable.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:37 PM) I think you can also non-tending players that are in the pre-free agent years, correct? Yes. Most if not all of the non-tenders are arb-eligible guys who are going to become more expensive than they think they are worth and cannot trade.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:18 PM) What's the difference between "non-tendering" a player and "releasing" a player I don't think the non tenders go through waivers. Its basically the same thing.

QUOTE (R.J. @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 03:16 PM) I have no problem signing a non-tendered Willy Taveras to a deal. I have a huge problem counting on him to be our starting CF and leadoff man, but I digress. As of this moment, the Sox are relying on .220 AAA hitters and guys with 4.80 ERAs in AAA to contribute. Why not have a non tender who can't even get traded for Tim Redding lead off and play CF?

Royals signed LHP Horacio Ramirez, who had been with the White Sox, to a one-year, $1.8 million contract. I cannot believe Ramirez can get almost $2 million. The Royals also paid over $4 million a year for Farnsworth. Their GM must be trying to get fired.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Dec 11, 2008 -> 01:12 PM) Dye is a righty. Abreu is lefty. Different needs for different teams. Abreu plays everyday and hit lefties at least in 2008 pretty well. .315 with a .372 OBP. I would think if you didn't have to give up prospects and could actually pay him less than you pay JD, it makes a lot more sense to sign him. Maybe he doesn't want to play for Cincinatti is my only guess.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:31 PM) Cedeno is as well. I just checked, Pie is out of options as well. And THIS is the crap they are packaging for players. It truly is amazing how much junk Hendry can trade for good players. Like fathom said, he must have naked pictures.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:23 PM) I meant Pie has no options left. So when he's sold as the savior in SD and he hits .175 because the park is tough to hit in and he can't hit anyway, they can't even send him to the minors without putting him through waivers. Classic.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:14 PM) If you want a CF who is relatively buy-low right now, but has the talent when healthy to do very well, we should really be looking at Kotsay. And I'd bet that KW is doing just that. I'd much rather take a chance on Kotsay, than Taveras or Pie. He seems too much like Darin Erstad for me. A guy who will play more than he should, plus he's not the defender he used to be. I still don't understand why Pie would be non tendered. I don't think he's eligible for arbitration.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 04:04 PM) Interesting note on the Redding/Taveras trade... it apparently fell through because one of the two players did not pass their physical. Another thing to note, Taveras was also mentioned as a candidate to be non tendered.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:51 PM) Danks I'll give you. Loaiza had something else going on it seems like. Also Loaiza started throwing his cutter in Toronto. The Sox didn't teach it to him, and his success was pretty short-lived.

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:50 PM) All I'm saying is that a few starting pitchers that we've had over the past such as Esteban Loaiza and more recently John Danks, learnt the cutter, because their fastball wasn't really enough of a strikeout pitch to begin with, and from reading Marquez's stuff, he seems like a perfect candidate. And you're not going to teach guys like Ramirez a cutter during the season (especially when he was only on the team for what 2 or 3 months). I'm only comparing Marquez to Garland because they're both sinkerball pitchers, and KW has gone out to try and acquire those type of pitchers, to negate the flyball effects of the Cell. So, the Sox can't teach one on the fly, but will be able to in spring training and Marquez should be ready for the rotation? I don't think that makes much sense. Javy Vazquez was popping off about being in Atlanta will help him because he's a flyball pitcher. Maybe he should look at his splits. He pitched better and gave up fewer homers at USCF, as do several White Sox pitchers.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:48 PM) pfff nobody on the yankees throws an above average cutter Well, the do have that one guy who supposedly has the best one of all-time...........................

QUOTE (DBAHO @ Dec 10, 2008 -> 03:38 PM) I'm reserving judgement on Marquez until they teach him a cutter. Could be another Jon Garland I think. But the Sox could still go and trade for Bailey, which would make him the 4th starter and Richard / Poreda the 5th starter, with Marquez starying in AAA, and then you go out and sign a replacement in LF (which I think the Sox would do, because KW says that we're right on our payroll limits as of this moment). If all he needs is a cutter, don't you think the Yankees would teach him one? And if they teach him, what is the guarantee it will be any good? If its that easy, why don't they teach MacDougal a cutter? Why didn't they teach Horacio Ramirez a cutter? I love how everyone compares Marquez to Garland. It must be because he strikes no one out. As I stated before, when Garland was Marquez's age, he had more IP on the major league level than Marquez has on the minor league level. It also took a long time for Garland to be considered trustworthy.