Everything posted by Dick Allen
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (iamshack @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 09:01 AM) The Jose Contreras/Frank Thomas comparison is a not a good one. Frank produced at a reasonably good level last season, while Jose had an absolutely terrible year. Well if its about last year, Frank hit .223 in April and May combined, so wouldn't it be the correct decison to sit him down until he starts to hit?
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (jackie hayes @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 08:12 PM) You want to start by explaining away the 66 points in obp, or how the season before that is completely irrelevant, or how more frequent steroids testing should affect them both equally? Your choice. That is a RIDICULOUS comparison. Sosa wanted $7 million or $8 million after last season's numbers. You want to talk OBP, what good does OBP mean if you don't score? Sosa had about 170 less plate appearances, hit 5 fewer homers, drove in 3 less runs and scored 10 less times. Project him with Frank's ABs and he scores more runs than Frank, hits more homers and drives in more runs. Frank is beyond station to station. We'll see when Frank is on the market next season exactly what he is offered. I'd bet my house its nowhere near $10 million.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 07:42 AM) If they didn't want that clause in the contract, they shouldn't have agreed to it. Signing a contract and then cutting him so they don't have to worry about fulfilling it is dishonest and may hurt them in the FA market down the road. Why is it dishonest? If Frank didn't want to be subject to it, he could have refused to sign the contract, not received his $9.2 million bonus before he ever played a game for the franchise and went to play somewhere else. The bottom line is Frank didn't have any other team offering him $18.2 million for 2007 and 2008 let alone a $10 million option. Once again, I ask, if Jose Contreras had a clause the vested a $10 million option next year and needed 80 IP, if KW cut him before he reached it, would you think it was wrong? Baseball is a business. If Frank were hitting better, the Blue Jays wouldn't have any excuses to cut him. He's about to turn 40, he's not the hitter he once was, and the scouting reports on him from an article I read were not good. Of course they never are when you are slumping, but 40 year olds slumping is a different animal from a 30 year old or even a 35 year old slumping.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (Texsox @ Apr 22, 2008 -> 07:12 AM) Two different concepts here. You are actually talking about comparative worth and if a team is over or under paying for the results. But regardless, fans are paying to watch people play baseball. That is what they come to the ballpark for. That is why they turn on the TV and radio and advertisers are there. To watch someone play baseball, not watching someone else watch a baseball game. So teams pay people to play. Is it worth $8,000,000 to have a guy hit .147? No, you could get a guy at the minimum to do that. but Is it worth $8,000,000 to have a guy slapping backs, patting butts, cheering? No, you can get people to pay to do that. You are really overpaying when you pay anything for those services. Just like your spare tire, a player only earns their money when they are playing, not sitting on the bench at any price. And just because I thought this was kind of funny. Imagine if they actually did sign guys to sit on the bench. Coaches meeting with the GM. "OK, the positions, rotation, and bull pen is set. Now we need four guys for the bench. Thoughts? "OO yes. I thought a couple of those Ultimate Fighter guys would be great. Pitchers would think twice before pitching inside if they knew we had that kind of muscle in the dugout." "I was thinking a couple jockeys. They would make our guys seem so much bigger and more intimidating". "I have a great idea! Mimes! Imagine trying to steal signals if we have a troupe of frickin' mimes in here! LMAO, I love mimes." Players are on the roster, and earn their money, for playing. Not working out. Not taking batting practice, not slapping butts. You and I could do that. They earn their money when they step on the field and compete. That is what the fans and advertisers are paying for. Watching guys play. Some players are actually worth more not playing than playing. Toby Hall for one. The thing about Frank is, it isn't about the playing time, trying to earn his money. Its about the money. If the option had already vested or Toronto said they would pick it up anyway, do you really think he would have made such a scene, and not even shook hands with his teammates after a victory? Frank's been banking on that $10 million. Now if he needs $10 million, he's going to have to play beyond 2009.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (Texsox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 08:21 PM) I wasn't trying to answer that question. I copied your specific post twice now. That is what I am responding to. A player earns his money by playing. How much simpler can I make it? so If you are taking a shower after the game and the other players stare and say, why are you taking a shower? You didn't play! You might not have earned you money. If the trainer has not washed your uniform in two weeks. You might not have earned your money. If your career ending insurance premium is less than a McDonald's cheeseburger, you probably are not earning your money If the manager forgot your name because he hasn't penciled it in for a month, you probably have not earned your money If the equipment manager gives away your jersey number, you probably are not earning your pay. If your uniform has left a shadow on the back of the bench, you are not earning your pay. Anytime a player is not playing they are not earning their money. For whatever reason. Injury, poor play, manager doesn't like guys from Ohio, suspended for arguing balls and strikes, it doesn't matter. If they are not playing, they are not earning their money. If they started hiring sitters, then guys could earn money sitting. But they hire players. So if after this, you are still confused, reread your posts and my replies. But on the other side of the coin, there are players who are playing everyday who aren't earning their money. I know Frank will do better than he is currently., but if he hit .220 with 18 homers next year and his salary was $10 million and Brian Anderson was making $400k to occassionally be a defensive replacement and bat 80 times, if you were running a team, who would you rather pay? Its a lot easier, earning $400k performance-wise than $10 million, especially when you don't play a defensive position. We all complain about players playing and guys who have "earned" chances to play not getting those chances because of what they are paying certain players. And if it was all about his option. So what, it is called an option. If Jose Contreras had a $10 million option that would be vested if he pitched 80 innings this year, if after his first start he was waived, I don't think there would be 1 person on this board crying foul. Jose Contreras has done a heck of a lot more for the White Sox than Frank Thomas ever did for the Blue Jays. Maybe ultimately Frank's demise in Toronto was about the option, but the Blue Jays still had over 300 plate appearances before that kicked in. For them to sit him now tells me at least for the moment his benching was performance-related.
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Frank Thomas Statue
Frank would have to do something like O.J. did not to get his number retired and a statue. Nobody has worn 35 since he left and nobody ever will again. I still believe Frank's statue would have been at 35th and Shields instead of that one they just placed there if he left on less ugly terms, and didn't have the spring training war of words with KW.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (Texsox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 06:17 PM) No you did not and I did not respond to that. What you asked was So you are confused and I explained that for a player to earn his money, he needs to be playing, hence the term player. If you didn't have to actually play to earn your money, the bench players would be dressed more like cheerleaders. Which might not be a bad idea. I'm not saying that Frank should or should not be in the lineup. This applies to any player. Otherwise imagine this scenario back in 2005. You know who should get serious consideration for MVP? Brian Anderson. Here it is the ninth inning, it's been a long night here in Houston, Podsednik is at bat against Brad Lidge. Most bench guys would be sitting back on the bench, but Anderson is there, on the rail. He knows that Pods needs a little extra power, and he's right f***ing there, top step, all the way. All-Star move. Now watch, that ball leaves the bat and Anderson is really cheering. He knows that Pods should be batting and not him, so he's willing that ball out of the stadium. Damn, that is a HoF move right there. Look how he turns to Rowand and start hugging him and they sprint from the dugout, other bench players are still getting off their ass, but Anderson is half way to home and look at that skipping and leaping ability. HoF buddy. That nice clean uniform looks great next to the dirty one that Rowand is wearing. That is why Anderson should be earning $8,000,000 a year. So at Frank's salary, hitting .275, popping a few dozen home runs would be earning his salary. hitting .175, a dozen or two home runs, is not fully earning his salary, but waaay closer than cheerleader. Cheerleaders get paid squat and are usually a lot better looking. Its a cute story, it still doesn't answer the question as to how stinking up the joint earns you at bats and earns you a $10 million option just because you were an MVP 14 years ago. Sammy Sosa hit .252 last year in 412 AB with 21 homers and 92 rbi. Pretty similar to Frank last year. He wanted $7 million or $8 million to play this year. He's not playing. Its not about being a cheerleader, its about a team needing to play its 9 best players at the time to win the game. I have no problem with Frank wanted to play, but sometimes he has to be realistic. How many o 0-fers until you get a break? Frank has been bad lately, so he has to sit. Take some extra hitting, make some adjustments and when you hit again, you play regularly again.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (Texsox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 07:20 AM) Simple. Sitting on the bench versus playing on the field. The people you see sitting on the bench with the ultra-clean uniforms are called coaches and earn considerably less. The people on the field are players. Coaches earn money by sitting on the bench and thinking, players earn money by being on the field and playing. My comment was Frank should want to be on the field, breaking through his slow start, instead of adopting an attitude of fine, pay me to sit on the bench and speed eatin' sunflower seeds, soaking up rays. I've never said there was anything wrong with wanting to play. He hasn't performed and went public saying the organization was trying to screw him out of his option. He's hitting .167. Last year he hit .223 in April and May. If history repeats itself, the Blue Jays may dig themselves too big of hole, plus there's the fact he is a year older, and he has an option with a huge price tag on it. They told him he would play 2 or 3 times a week, and its hard for me to see if he starting knocking the ball around he still would be glued to the bench. Basically he was told he had to perform to play which Frank cannot accept. He feels because he is Frank Thomas he is entitled to be in the line-up no matter how bad he is playing and is entitled to his $10 million option. Considering this board took Joe Crede to be worthless in about 40 spring training ABs, Juan Uribe was deemed unable to play 2B defensively when he committed an error the first or second game, Jose Contreras a guy who only 2 years ago won 17 consecutive decisions has been deemed worthless after his first start, it really is amazing 60 ABs and an $8 million payout with the opportunity to make his own deal should have Frank or his fans upset.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, but does anyone definitively know if Thomas signs with someone else and reaches his plate appearances figure, does the option still kick in with Toronto on the hook for $10 million next year minus the minimum some other team would give him?
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
What I don't understand about the people griping about this the most is the Blue Jays did Frank a favor. Even if it was only about the option for next year, so what? There isn't 1 team in MLB that would want to be on the hook for $10 million to Frank in 2009. He still gets paid the same amont this year, some are saying the Blue Jays have no realistic chance anyway, I disagree but what do I know. Frank now has the opportunity to find a team that does.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (Texsox @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 06:21 PM) I wonder if the same people that think he should just cash the checks and not care if he is playing or not, ever criticize a player for signing a big contract and not caring? GMAFB. Criticizing a player, any player, for wanting to EARN his money silliest thing I've ever heard. I wonder what Dick_Allen would have posted if Frank was heard saying, play me, or not, I don't care; I'm picking up 8 million for the season so I will just stfu and keep my jersey clean. I'm confused as to how hitting like crap, but staying in the line-up so a $10 million option will certainly kick in is a sign of wanting to EARN his money. Wouldn't wanting to EARN his money be more like OK, I've been bad, Stairs is hitting, the object is to win. I'm a HOFer, I will start to hit, and then they will have to play me, instead of running to the media saying the Blue Jays are benching you and the only reason is an option for next year they don't want to kick in? He was told he would be playing 2 or 3 times a week for an indefinite period. He could have kept his mouth shut and started hitting, forcing the Blue Jays to play him and actually EARN his salary this year and next year's option, which at the age of 40/41 would have been more money than the White Sox ever paid him for a season. The person who made the option for next year an issue with the media is Frank. If Frank doesn't like the terms of his contract, he shouldn't have signed it. The fact was the Blue Jays offered him more guaranteed money than any other team, it wasn't as incentive-laced, so the guy who wanted to EARN his money signed. I don't blame him for that, but please, quit with the Frank just wants to EARN his money. He just wants to maximize his money. Just ask yourself this question, if the White Sox bought out Thome after this season, would it be a good move to sign Frank Thomas to a 1 year $10 million contract for a season he's where he will turn 41 years old? I don't think even his biggest fans would think that would be too smart. There's more to this, but the Blue Jays weren't going to release him. He just had a bad attitude about the whole thing, did not interact with his "teammates" after yesterday's victory, and once again was all about Frank. Its refreshing an organization has the balls to eat $8 million to show primma donnas they don't run the place. One thing is guaranteed, if Frank produces at his next stop, he will complain about money again.
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Frank Thomas Released By The Blue Jays/signed by the A's
QUOTE (jackie hayes @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 04:47 PM) Toronto isn't a cheapskate team. They paid big money for Ryan, Burnett, Wells. They'd pay $10 mil for two years of production, if they thought he could provide it. They may not want to pay him, but it's because they don't think he helps the team, not because they've suddenly become the Marlins North. I agree. Frank with the $8 million this year will have pulled in $100 million in his career. Almost 1/5 of that being paid by Toronto who paid him more in 2007 than the White Sox ever paid him for 1 season.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
Danks and Contreras with 0 walks their last start.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (kyyle23 @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 03:07 PM) Considering the problems that the Sox have had in Tampa in recent years, and the way they got handled yesterday, this is a really nice game for the Sox They were undefeated in Tampa last year. But I do remember Billy Koch.............................
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (Princess Dye @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 01:47 PM) Hawk talking about Scottie Pippen? JR = 'my friend' Yep. If Pip wouldn't have signed that contract and got market value, maybe he would have started dropping for his servers.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (BearSox @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 02:13 PM) Has it seemed like to anyone else that Crede has been much worse this year then his numbers would indicate? Yeah, they should release him.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 02:06 PM) Gary GLover is a lover, not a pitcher. Mclovin
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
Speaking of weight, AJP is a lot lighter than he's been in years.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 01:56 PM) Great game going for Thome. He's squared up the ball in every AB. Hawk and DJ must be shocked he's hitting a RHP
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (max power @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:46 PM) I don't think he is that fat. He is fatter than he used to be and therefore too fat. You'd think he'd take his athleticism more seriously since that is a huge part of his career. If Jenks gets lit up the next appearance, will you be talking about how far below his belt his gut appears to be hanging?
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
Danks has looked awesome except for 1 start this year.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (max power @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:42 PM) They are also not paid professional athletes. If someone not named Juan Uribe stood right next to you in street clothes with the exact same body, you would not think he's fat.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (max power @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:39 PM) So he is a jolly fat man. I bet 95% of the people who constantly have the Uribe weight comments have bigger waistlines than him.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:37 PM) What is he like personality wise? I can't really understand him too much when he talks. Lot of Spanish. There usually is about 8 people the few times I've been out. But he will laugh at anything you say.
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4/20 Gamethread: Sox (10-7) at Rays (8-10), 12:40 CSN
QUOTE (DonnyDevito @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:36 PM) Yeah...I think I'd rather have Jerry Owens on this team than Brian Anderson. Its hard to play as little as Anderson and be sharp at the plate. If they aren't at least going to use BA as a defensive replacement, Owens could at least pinch run.