Dick Allen

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:51 PM) I understand the logic, but based on the previous deals for superstars and what they landed for them, I think that the return isnt going to be everything the lakers want. But they need to cut payroll and bring in young talent and possibly additional draft picks. With what they charge for tickets, they need stars. That's the hold-up. If they were so desperate, someof these Deng-less packages would be more than acceptable.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:42 PM) Because Kobe wants out, ownership wants him out, they dont get along, they refuse to put talent around him, and the team is going nowhere fast. I guess other than that they arent desperate. Magic Johnson, a lot closer to the situation than any of us, and even closer than Dan Bernstein, floated the possibility of Kobe remaining with the Lakers and the Lakers improving their team. I think the desperation is very overrated, but we shall see. Besides, if he's so miserable there, the longer they wait, the greater the possibility he expands his landing spots, thus increasing the Lakers chances at a better package.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) They are completely powerless here. He wants out. This is not unlike the AI, Vince Carter and KG situation. We have all the leverage because we dont need to make this trade at all. The Lakers prob wont make the playoffs without rebuilding and gathering more talent. They are not in a position of strength at all. Heres chad ford's take He's still the best player and biggest draw in the game. They don't have to trade him. Its not like the clock is ticking. If they improve their team, Buss and Kobe would kiss and make up in a heartbeat. I'm just one that doesn't see why the Lakers would be desperate.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) I dont think Pax has been willing to deal Deng at all. I think that part of it is BS. Pax is too smart to give up his team for a single player. The bulls are in a position of power because we are one of the best teams in the east without making a single move. I think Pax is trying to leverage the desperation of LA by offering them less than people think. I can see it getting done with Gordon, Thomas, Noah, and a pick. Team who deal superstars out of necessity DO NOT get anything good in return. Its historically been more of an unload, just look at some of the past deals. Kobe opts out in 2 years, and if he wants to get paid, he's going to have to agree to a sign and trade. The Lakers are far from powerless here.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) Dan Bernstein is talking about this right now. I'll try to keep up. He still says "Kobe Bryant to become a Bull" by tomorrow afternoon still a 90% possibility. He says Kobe is in charge of this. Deals are talked about that are put in front of Kobe and he has rejected them all... they have already agreed on deals and Kobe has turned them down. The player mentioned the most by "people who know what's going on" is Kirk Hinrich. Kirk is young, desirable, defends, and under contract for a reasonable amount. Kobe knows that Kirk dominates the ball, moreso than any other Bull (amount of time on shotclock with ball in hands, not necessarily shots). The Deng stuff is purely Bryant. The Bulls are more than willing to deal Deng but Bryant refuses to move without Deng staying in Chicago. All names are on the table. Kobe wants to be a Bull, Bulls want Kobe, Kobe wants to be a Bull entirely on his own terms. There are a lot of people who want this deal to get done, but its incredibly complicated involving a 3rd team. A deal proposed yesterday would have involved a player going to the Lakers who was then sent to the Cavaliers (Bibby to the Cavs). Paxson stayed home yesterday to work on this deal, but the game actually being played delayed negotiations. Until John Paxson says this thing is over, it is very active right now. This is from Bernstein, who has very reliable connections with the Bulls. The NBA has always been notorius for its BS rumors. While, I'm sure there is a lot of talk going on, most of it is garbage. Anyone can sound like an expert. I wonder if Bernstein who says 90% chance by tomorrow would be willing to put money on it. What would change between now and then. If Kobe is rejecting everything and adding another team is incredibly complicated how is it that its almost a done deal? A 90% possibility that it gets done? He's talking out of both sides of his mouth. I'm more inclined to listen to Magic Johnson who said Deng was the sticking point. He has better connections than Bernstein.

I'd rather not pay Hunter and save the money for Miguel Cabrera. That guy loves Ozzie. Show him the money and get him in shape. He would be awesome at USCF.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:14 AM) I know a number of people who string stats or do scoreboard work, etc., for a "living", while in school or elsewhere. And as I said, its a foot in the door. You missed the point. If someone can live on that, God bless them. Does anyone know approximately how much ticket reps make? Do they get commissions? I know someone who the stringing about 10 years ago. I think he got $30 a game. Considering thats 81 x30, thats about $2400.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:04 AM) Because I think he can be had at a decent price, and he fills a need for us. He's a plus defending outfielder who can hit for power and put up an 800-ish OPS. If Crede is not healthy or is traded in ST, then Jenkins slips nicely into LF with Fields at 3B. Or if Crede stays but PK goes, Fields to 1B and Jenkins in LF. Or, and I don't know how possible this is, since Jenkins is a very good defensive LF, maybe he can play CF. Point is, depending on how the offseason and ST shake out, having an outfielder who can put up those numbers and play solid D would be huge - and he can probably be had for significantly less than Rowand, Hunter or other names being talked about for the outfield. If he were cheap, I agree he wouldn't be bad to have, but I would rather see the Sox get someone who can rake lefties.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Nov 1, 2007 -> 08:08 AM) I did specifically say this was more oriented towards those just out of college. Its a way in the door in a very competitive field, which generally means lower pay. But thanks for the jab at those who do these things for a living. I am overwhelmed by the staggering profundity of your artfully crafted retort. Their is no one who does these jobs for a living unless they have some money in the bank or has another job that lets them work the odd hours. They are not full-time jobs and probably pay less than $4000 for the season. $50 a game is probably max. and even that may be high. These things are listed every year, and may not even be available.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 10:16 AM) You have seen the rest of his quotes, right? This was from two days ago. Or this from the beginning of camp... Or this from after their first exhibition game He pretty much called him lazy, unfocused, and out of shape. Heck even the "compliment" you posted was pretty weak. From the Daily Herald, After a month of light suspense, the starting power forward job was given to Tyrus Thomas. "The first four or five days of two-a-days in the Berto Center, that first unit (with Thomas) played really, really well together," Scott Skiles said. "I wanted to take a look at something a little bit different late in camp, basically because we had injuries. He certainly didn't do anything in exhibition to hurt himself." Certainly doesn't sound like lazy, unfocused and out of shape to me. You must take Skiles' jabs with a grain of salt. He is an old school coach who believes in constructive criticism. He tends to exagerrate the negative to get a small point across.

The Sun Times is reporting KW will meet with Torii Hunter in the next week and he is the White Sox top priority. His best OBP in his career is .337 and he will cost $15 million a year. The article also mentions Eckstein and even says Eckstein could be added and Uribe's option could be picked up with Uribe playing second or third. It seems ridiculous to me if Eckstein and Uribe are both on the field that Eckstein would be the one playing SS and Uribe 2B.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) I think it had to do with Wallace not fitting into the triangle offense very well. Is there an offense he fits in?

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Oct 31, 2007 -> 05:29 PM) Once again, why are the Lakers in a position to dictate the trade? Kobe has been in the drivers seat since his infamous remarks about getting a Bulls jersey, the Lakers dont want to be left high and dry with an unhappy superstar who will walk in 2 years leaving them with nothing. Regardless what Magic is saying, if Kobe wants to play with Deng then i guess Deng is off the table, the Lakers will still have to deal Kobe. The funny thing is that the Lakers are going to have to bite the bullet and trade for less value, and they are trying to max out the value which just isnt possible because of their lack of leverage. The Lakers can hold off and if Kobe really wants out that bad, he will expand his list of acceptable teams to be traded to. The Lakers still have some power, at least for another year or so. One good thing for the Bulls is Paxson is the GM. Kobe is no Jordan, but he's probably the closest thing and Paxson knows what has to be there for that kind of player to win since he was with Michael before and after they started winning.

He's far and away better than Owens. People are putting way too much into Owens' .342 Sept. batting average. Crisp has 50 steals the last 2 seasons, and been caught 10 times. He has struggled a bit in Boston, but was pretty good in Cleveland, and is reasonably priced.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 10:24 PM) I can't believe how similar Hall's career line is to Neifi Perez's. Send an email to Dusty. That should pique his interest.

I really want ARod on the Marlins. It would be really sticking it to the Yankees. The Marlins get $30 million a year in revenue sharing, most from the Yankees. It would be like the Yankees were still paying him.

2 of the worst players in baseball, Gonzalez and Hall are still on the roster. Hall may bounce back, they should see if he has anything in spring training. Maybe they can let Andy be the bench coach if Cora goes to Pittsburgh since they like him so much. He shouldn't be playing major league baseball.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 08:31 PM) They're trying to win. So how is a plan of Uribe, Contreras, and pray for a rebound a better plan than getting rid of the deadweight and bringing in a better option at short? All I know is Furcal is FAR more likely to return to his former self (previous 4 years of 285/350/425) than a 36(?) year-old Contreras who's seen his strikeout rate fall in every season. A rotation that's the worst in baseball yet contains Buehrle, Vazquez, and Garland? Let's leave out the hyperbole shall we? Those three could have competed with any single rotation in the post-season. Or if we're going to play the "could be" card, let's at least acknowledge that Danks could turn around like Carmona and Floyd's final 7 starts could be the sign that he's finally figured things out. Then the Sox have what might be the best rotation in baseball... you know, if we're gonna play that game. I know we don't have any great under-30 players, shouldn't that be a reason we should want more draft picks, quickly? Shouldn't that be a reason to get rid of the rapidly aging, and probably eldest member of the roster? I don't know about FAR more likely with Furcal. He has an ankle problem that was just determined did not need surgery. I'm a little leery. Furcal is another guy who they really don't know how old he is, but I'm sure he's younger than Contreras. Moving to the AL, only around for a year. I like Uribe at $8 million less playing for a contract. I like Contreras over Floyd. That's just me. We'll see how it turns out. One thing is for certain, I hope the White Sox make no trades before Mitchell's report comes out, unless they are sure the guy they are getting isn't on it, or are sure the guy they are getting rid of is on it. I heard suspensions will be coming. I was thinking about this with the Renteria trade. If his name appeared, and he got suspended 50 games it would put a whole new spin on the trade. As far as your big 3 in the rotation, I think its FAR more likely Vazquez returns to his normal line than what he did in 2007. Garland tends to be up and down, and Buerhle is usually solid. Its still a rotation that's very short. Danks ran out of gas after about 90 innings, and I don't know how much you could expect out of Floyd. That would put a long of stress on what is right now a horrible bullpen looking for a miracle recovery. I've heard Linebrink's name mentioned. I wouldn't mind taking a few cuts against him. The reason the White Sox sucked last year isn't Juan Uribe. His numbers were pretty comparable to 2005 when he was the SS for a championship team. The reason they sucked was the pitching was 12th in the AL. Only Baltimore and Tampa Bay were worse. Contreras was a big part of that problem. But if September games matter like they apparently do with Gavin Floyd, in August and September Contreras was 5-3 with an ERA below 4.00. You can't be serious about Danks and Floyd. You're starting to sound like KW. He claimed Danks and Gio were the 2 best left handed pitching prospects in baseball.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:29 PM) Neither is sticking with Contreras and Uribe... I don't understand how Furcal is a bigger question mark than Contreras... And when combined with removing Uribe, he provides about $2M in salary relief in '08. Since we've both concluded that the Sox aren't going to win in '08 (actually, I think they can be a .500 or above team. Just not one which can compete for the division crown). Furcal's more quickly expiring contract, $7M less salary overall, and the ability to possibly bring in extra '09 draft picks with a rebound season, should make him more desirable to a team looking to turn around quickly. If you want to languish as a 4th place team, you keep Contreras around along with all the other slow, (soon-to-be) breaking down over-30 crowd. If you want to get back to being a top team in the Central, you make the necessary moves to get more athletic at the major and minor league level as quickly as possible. They are trying to win. Draft picks are fine, but those guys, if they pan out are usually at least 4 or 5 years down the line. The White Sox would then again be looking for a SS, so the $7 million you supposedly saved over the second year will be eaten up. Bill James is coming out with the top 25 players 29 and under. Not surprisingly, no White Sox will be mentioned. Considering I just read were Silva may get between $10 million and $12 million a year, Contreras contract with a little bounce back is probably not so bad. $13 million for Furcal is a lot. Your $2 million in relief sets up a rotation that could be the worst in baseball. The White Sox need Contreras to bounce back. Maybe not to where he was from mid 2005 to mid 2006, but a guy who can win 12-15 with an ERA around 4.25. I think that's more probable than Gavin Floyd being lights out, or John Danks pitching 200 innings, or Gio Gonzalez, my favorite prospect, having a lot of success his first season. If 2 of those 3 are in the rotation, the White Sox will be battling KC for the cellar, just like this year.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 06:04 PM) Like Jose Contreras is so much better then what John Danks, Gavin Floyd, Lance Broadway, Gio Gonzalez, and Jack Egbert? PUH-LEASE! In my mind, there is a far better chance of Jose Contreras having a good year next year than any of the above. Sorry. Its one thing to have an decent couple starts in September with nothing on the line. But to start the season in the rotation on a team expecting to win is a whole different story. Contreras has done that. I really don't think you could realistically expect an ERA lower than 5.00 from the 5 guys you mentioned. If Contreras pitches like he did in 2007, the Sox are screwed, I will grant you that, but I am one that is against writing him off, or giving him up for someone who will not lower the payroll so you can add other pieces. If the Sox trade Contreras, they must get salary relief. Not get back a huge question mark like Furcal who makes even more and has 1 season on his contract. Regardless of what KW says, this team needs more than a tweak. More than our bad contract for your bad contract. They aren't the defending champions. They somehow need get at least 25 games better next season. More than a couple changes are needed.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 05:33 PM) I think the only reason people want Furcal is if it comes by unloading deadweight.... The Sox could pay him $13M and still shed $ if they are able to swing a deal with Contreras($10M) and dump Uribe ($5M). That (theoretically) makes the Sox a better team while spending less money. That leaves Gavin Floyd, John Danks, and Gio Gonzalez battling for 40% of the starting rotation. That isn't going to win.

I really don't know why everyone wants Furcal. He's coming off a fairly poor season, makes $13 million a year, pretty overpriced in myopinion and is a free agent at the end of the season. So even if he played well, he'd be looking for a raise. I

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 11:45 AM) I'd be very happy to land Furcal. He answers our two most blatant questions of SS and leadoff. Since you are one to rip ARod for a couple of bad postseasons, have you ever checked out Furcal's postseason stats. Except for 1 season, pretty brutal. He gets about $13 million next year, his final year, so thats not too favorable, plus he's been convicted of DUI twice. I hope KW stays away.

I wonder if KW is still banking on the "market correction" he had been counting on this offseason.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 07:25 AM) In this situation, I think Kenny's big mouth is a good thing. Its one less GM that Borass can use to try to drive his price up against other people. If more GMs did this, it would make it much harder for this guy to get his big money. Boras probably wouldn't even listen to KW. He gave him no shot in 2000 and it didn't hurt A-Rod financially. I'm sure Boras already has a pretty good idea what uniform ARod will be wearing, and probably knows almost exactly how his future paychecks will read.