Dick Allen

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 12, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) I hope he gets that but Jerry is a better value at league min that A-row at that price. You are right, he would be a better value, but if Jerry Owens is the regular CF for the 2008 White Sox, there would be cause for concern. The bottom line is unless KW wants to sign guys coming off injuries or multiple dissappointing seasons, players who have produced are going to be very expensive. Probably ridiculously expensive. KW was looking for a correction, but even Hawk said everyone is making money, so I don't think his correction is coming this winter. There may be a time when we think those silly contracts everyone was signing last year were bargains.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2007 -> 08:04 AM) Good for Al. The question now becomes, are the rumors about him waiting for this to enter the Presidential race true? I read on the elevator this morning that he definitely considered using this as a springboard to run, but thinks Hillary is a lock for the nomination.

He won't get that much, but he will get more than a lot of people think. I wouldn't be surprised if someone gives him $12 million a year.

From June 2 to July 8 the White Sox are in Chicago a ton. Only 9 road games. 3 in Detroit. 3 in LA and 3 against the Cubs. I knew the Sox wouldn't open at home after last season. But Cleveland had those games moved to Milwaukee and they get stuck opening at home in March. That's brutal.

How long is Pratt's term as President of Soxtalk? I think he's doing a fine job.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Oct 11, 2007 -> 11:08 AM) I still disagree. Giving up Rowand and Gio to get a player that cost more money and gives you the same production as a player you already have is a bad move. And, getting nothing for that player is a worse move. This is killing the Sox - got nothing for Ordonez, nothing for Thomas and will probably get nothing for Crede. They can't keep letting their best players go for no return and they also need to sign more free agents. They need to trade some of these guys for good young talent while they can. They have so few quality young guys that can step in and produce. You can't win consistently producing nothing from the farm system and not signing free agents. The talent has to come from somewhere. Your post makes little sense. They didn't trade Ordonez, but not paying him netted them a WS. They signed a free agent that year who was MVP in the World Series. They replaced Thomas with Thome who is at least his equal at this stage. Considering Frank was hurt during 2005 and wound up signing a guarantee of only $500,000, and could barely walk at the time, trading him would have gotten nothing. Keeping him may have worked out, but maybe not. Toronto gave him a lot more money this year than the Sox with the Philly money are paying Thome, and they certainly wouldn't have faired any better the past 2 seasons with Frank in the line-up instead of Thome.

This is a guy the Sox should make President of the team or something.

As the third base coach for the Pirates in 2007, he was as lonely as Razor Shines.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 06:42 PM) Well is it fair to say we've seen Figgins ceiling? Is it really a good idea for us to give up one of our steadiest pitchers and probably our best hitter over the past several years and a good defensive 1B for a player that may have peaked, a reliever who may be in decline and a prospect that hasnt shown the power potential yet to be a great 1B. It just isnt an even deal IMO. As much as I would LIKE those players, its not worth giving up Konerko and Garland even for the financial flexibility. The other part of the deal would be what the Sox did with the money it freed up. Sort of like the CLee/Pods deal. CLee was clearly the better player, but it also included AJP and Iguchi. Too bad this is just a figment of Boer's imagination. Its pretty intriguing.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) I understand he had a good season this year. With that said, his career .350 OBP would have ALOT of people on here upset if he was our lead off man. Not to mention hes getting into that dreaded 30's range where the speed and sb's start dropping off. I mean how many people on here were using the OPS argument against Jerry Owens? Chone will have a sub .800 OPS next year most likely. His SLG has only topped .400 2 out of 6 years. Everyone thought Pods was God in 2005 and his OBP was .351. Don't let Owens .340 average in September fool you. He isn't very good.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) The trade would be a financial boon for the Sox. They'd have their CFer for the next few seasons, unless they wanted to ditch Crede altogether, put Figgins (or Fields) at 3B (with the other in left) and go after one of the FA CFers. If they made this happen, I'd just go with Figgins in center, Fields in left and Crede at third, and would look focus the rest of the winter's efforts on improving at SS. The rotation is going to take a hit if Garland is traded, no doubt, but the team is going to be lacking in some area(s) next year unless Kenny can work miracles. Garland, besides 2005 and his victory total in 2006 has been pretty much average at best. I wouldn't advocate going with Gavin Floyd or Broadway, or really even Gio, at least until they earn a spot, but there should be an opportunity to pick up an average pitcher at a fair cost.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:15 PM) A few days ago they were talking on TBS about organizations that do baseball a certain way -- I believe they mentioned the Angels and the Twins, and I would add the Braves, offhand, to organizations that stress fundamentals from the lowest depths of the system all the way to the top, indoctrinating their players from the beginning. Clearly these organizations value defense, fundamental baserunning, opposite field hitting, good approaches at the plate, etc. etc. And it got me thinking: do the White Sox have a system? A White Sox way? I know some, including good friends of mine, argue in defense of Greg Walker by saying, "I'm sure he's the one who tells the hitters to close their eyes and swing as hard as they can." It's a good point, no? But then you look at our system, from the minor leagues up, and you think about our defenders, our hitters, our baserunning -- it's abysmal, and so I really wonder how coherent our organization is. Do we stress things from the beginning all the way to the top? If we do, if we really do, putting much emphasis on these things, then why do we suck so bad at most of them? Why are we now and have for the longest time a terrible offensive team beyond the homerun? Do players tune out the coaches or are they never taught? Whichever it is is an unhappy reality, right? I mean, if players don't listen, then what does that say about them? If our coaches aren't competent, what does that say? I just wish I didn't have to associate my team's system with softball. I guess I'm happy with the Buddy Bell signing, as a result, but only if it's a serious beginning to a complete and drastic overhaul of the way this organization does things. I don't have high hopes, as I question this organization's leadership, but we'll see. The White Sox way appears to be calling kids up who have no idea how to steal bases if they can run. They have no idea how to run the bases. They don't know where to throw the ball. Situational hitting is new. Bunting is like an organic chemistry class.They apparently haven't been told of a cut-off man yet. Then what the Sox do, is get a group of coaches to help teach them these things at the major league level. When that doesn't work, the coach that has been with the team the fewest seasons gets let go, and another is brought into his place.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:41 PM) I absolutely love Scot Shields. So do I

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:39 PM) Oh, gotcha. Ok, that would work better. I'm thinking it would would a little too much better for the Angels to bite.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) Is it also worth pointing out that Shields put up horrendous numbers in the 2nd half? .300 batting average against him, .736 ERA. He came back at the end. He was having mechanical issues. He would be the second best pitcher in the bullpen by far if KW acquired him.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:36 PM) No. Add in another top player from the Angels' side and then it's better, but this is just as slanted as the first onje. And it leaves us without a first baseman at all. Paulie would still be here.

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:34 PM) How about Garland, Crede and Broadway for Figgins, Shields and Santana.. Then you can put Figgins out in LF, still have room to sign Rowand or Hunter and still have Konerko on the team. Not to mention finally having a decent setup man to get to Jenks... I doubt Pauly would be involved with any deal this offseason but you never know... Any Konerko-Garland package better bring back much more than that. You aren't going to be able to trade Crede until he shows he's healthy. I'm pretty sure if the Angels offered KW the trade you proposed, he would take it in a heartbeat.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 05:28 PM) Why's it an awful trade? Kotchman was a better player this year than Konerko and going forward I'd rather have Kotchman. I don't like the other part being (essentially) Garland for Figgins + Shields, but the deal would clear close to $50 million off the books (3*$12 + 1*$12). It's an extremely tempting offer, that's for sure, and not even close to being as awful as some of you are making it out to be. At the very least, this makes me happy to know that Konerko isn't off limits this winter. There's some teams out there who could use a guaranteed 25-35 homer guy (Yankees, Halos, Dodgers) and I'd love to see the Sox 'cash in' a bit. I think if KW trades Paulie, he will only trade him to a place he really wouldn't mind going. The Angels definitely fit that. He has limited no trade protection.

This deal would free up a lot of money. It would appear that the Sox would become weaker against LHP though. It would depend on what KW did with the extra money, but I think I would lean toward doing it.

QUOTE(knightni @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 12:41 PM) Unfortunately, Razor is now disposable. That's not bad either.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 11:16 AM) Are you sure it wasn't Tim Raines that you saw and heard? We have two people that know Razor and posted he's as straight edged as they come. straight edged describing Razor. That's pretty good.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 9, 2007 -> 12:12 PM) On top of that, I might add...there are some teams that his style might work better with than others. Torre has always struck me as something of a laid back manager. Maybe not at the Manuel level, but he's certainly no fire-breather like Ozzie. When we were looking for managers in 03, the list came down to guys like Ozzie and Gaston, because the team felt it needed someone to kick the arse of these guys and put a little emotion into them. I still think that with the mix of guys we have, that's the right answer for out group; someone who kicks their tails every now and then. Heck, even with the Yankees, it seems like each of the last 3 years we've heard a story around the middle of the season about how adding some new player to that team, like Abreu or Joba, has suddenly woken up all of those old stars who were starting to get so complacent and relaxed, and how it made that team look suddenly like they were playing much harder. Gaston was as laid back as Manuel. KW liked him because he played for him. The Yankee managerial position is like no other in sports. The owner meddles, the fans are tough, and there is no media frenzy like in that position. Torre lasting 12 years says a lot about him. I think the new guy is going to have a hard time winning over some of the veterans initially.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 08:58 AM) Sorry, I meant to clarify - they didn't say Konerko was going to be moved, they were discussing which Sox players would be attractive to other teams. A caller proposed that Konerko be moved to make room at 1B for Josh Fields, since Konerko had also been a 3B earlier in his career. (The hosts didn't give that idea much credence) I didn't take it as you thought he would be traded. I do think Garland is out the door.

QUOTE(The Critic @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 08:44 AM) I heard on one of the Saturday morning radio baseball programs (I don't remember which station's) that Garland and Konerko are considered to have the greatest trade value. That could be why. Konerko does have limited no trade protection in his contract. He either has become or is extremely close to being a 5/10 guy so he will have full protection.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Oct 7, 2007 -> 01:02 AM) Absolutely, and IMO SB would be a bad agent if he didn't have A-Rod opt-out. The game is a business, and A-Rod has a chance to make even more cash. I don't blame him. With that said, looking at the Yanks roster, as well as talking to a few fans that are die hard Yanks fans like us, the biggest FA moves the Yanks are going to make is locking up their own. ARod isn't leaving NY, and if he does, he certainly isn't coming to the Southside of Chicago. Brian Cashman is on record as saying if ARod opts out, the Yankees will not be bidding for his services. If he opts out the money they get to cover a big chunk of his salary from Texas no longer comes their way. Its pretty big money. In another thread I was thinking Boras can use this with Tom Hicks to get another one of his clients, maybe Andruw Jones a big contract, saying hey I just saved you $10 million a year or so opting out of that, you need a CF.... Cashman's statement may just be part of a game, but if the Yankees lose today and ARod doesn't do much, I have a hard time believing he will be back there next season if he opts out. Its hard to believe a guy with his numbers gets the s*** he gets. He's struggled in the playoffs, but so did Barry Bonds for a while. Someday he'll snap out of his playoff funk with authority.