Dick Allen

I was looking at the 2001 draft were Floyd went #4. Ironically the Sox took Honel that year and he just retired. The did pass on David Wright and Jeremy Bonderman among others.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 11:00 PM) The irony is delicious. Haeger deserves a shot despite the fact that he got creamed in a league that you constantly rip on everyday. But Haeger gets excuses -- "Knucklers are up and down" -- yup, which is why there's been all of one successful knuckler over the past 15 years. Haeger was actually very good the last month or so in AAA. Maybe his 4th season of AAA he can be as good as Floyd.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) He's pitched 14 innings. He more than earned his spot down in Charlotte. Argue minor league numbers all you want but there was no one more deserving than him, period. And he came up and got hammered. Arnie Munoz never got much of an opportunity. Rod Bolton never got much of an opportunity. Scott Ruffcorn's minor league numbers put Floyd's to shame, he got 5 starts and 31 innings total.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:45 PM) After the string he put up in Charlotte back in June/July, yes a couple of us would. Then where was the outrage when Prinz was let go? Floyd has given up 8 homers in 14 innings. His ERA is over 10.00. If it wasn't for KW talking him up, everyone would write off as a AAAA pitcher, considering his career ERA is over 7.00. He has pitched as bad as anyone in a White Sox uniform ever. If he deserves an opportunity, everyone does.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) Because Gavin actually earned his spot on the team, Haeger has not. He's given up 8 homers in 14 innings. His ERA is over 10.00. I don't think that spot is earned.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) he couldn't be ranked after 05 because he lost his prospect status. And please tell me where I said you are stupid and I am very smart... (btw, thats ^ true ) He also actually was halfway decent in the majors in 2004, but has gone backwards ever since. He's a bust. He would be in Charlotte right now if he were acquired for Lance Broadway, and not 1 person on this board would be saying give him the ball every 5th day for the rest of the season.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:36 PM) he couldn't be ranked after 05 because he lost his prospect status. And please tell me where I said you are stupid and I am very smart... (btw, thats ^ true ) Since Floyd has 125 innings under his belt, why don't we give Haeger the same opportunity? Why tax the other pitchers. Let them rotate some time off and save themselves for next year. Don't we have to see what we have in him too? While were at it, lets bring up the entire Knights pitching staff.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:29 PM) I see my point flew right over your head... I'm pretty stupid and you are very smart, so that's easy to do, but how about some raw numbers. Since your BA rankings of Floyd stop at 2005, lets look at his major league numbers from 2005 until today. 94.2 innings, 125 hits 97 runs 27 homeruns allowed 53 walks 59 strikeouts. He blows.

QUOTE(Texsox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) One down side to the "It's a lousy season, see what they can do" and especially with pitchers. is it is very tough to "show what you can do", when everyone sucks around you. Keep that in perspective. I understand, but with Floyd that really doesn't apply. Defense doesn't really matter. The only one's who really need a glove are the fans in the bleachers.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:21 PM) In 2002, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 56th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2003, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 8th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2004, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 23rd overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. In 2005, Gavin Floyd was ranked the 35th overall prospect in baseball by baseball america. Now, why would such a bad pitcher get such high rankings by such a respected and all around well-known baseball site known for its ability to scout prospects? It's not a question of talent, it is a question of utilizing that talent. I see no harm in this move. I highly doubt he can do any worse then Contreras, and with the season already over, there is no harm if he goes out there for 4-5 starts and s***s his pants. After those 4-5 starts, if shows he has no balls and is afraid to attack the hitters and gets shelled, then give someone else a chance. For right now, we basically have nothing to lose, but something to gain. Its 2007 what's he ranked now? In October 2005 the White Sox were ranked the best team in the world. Wasn't in BA that said the Sox had the best farm system in baseball in 2000? Didn't that turn out to be quite wrong? Where someone ranked 5 years ago gets nobody out during this year's games unfortunately. The Sox are replacing Contreras with someone who is worse.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) Unless the organization decides Egbert is ready, you give him the rest of the season. It certainly doesn't hurt and I know you and G.Pratt are especially against him but there is no reason not to let him pitch out the rest of the season. If his ERA is over 10.00 you will blow out the bullpen and lessen the possibility of winning the games Floyd doesn't pitch batting practice in. On the other side of the coin, what if he has an ERA around 6.00 in these meaningless games. Is that good enough to count on him for next year? It is over 1.00 under his career ERA.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) well, he wasn't a second round pick. He was the 4th overall pick and was considered pretty much a top talent. If he didn't have top of the rotation upside, he likely wouldn't have been drafted 4th overall. The team that made the mistake of taking him that high was more than happy to unload him.

For all the people that like this move, I am curious about something, if Floyd continues to pitch like he has shown, how many starts do you give him until you do pull the plug? When is enough enough?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:03 PM) Long time ago. If he were a second round pick, nobody would hold up this hope that he is better than his numbers have suggested for so long. He just isn't a good pitcher and his stuff is overrated as well. If he were a second round pick or he was acquired for someone not as high-profiled as Freddy Garcia, he would be Charlotte filler.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 09:49 PM) It's a matter of upside. Haeger's upside is that of a rubber arm'd 5th starter. Floyd has the upside of 2-4. You can't be thinking of Gavin Floyd, can you?

Between ducksnorts and umps missing pitches, its amazing the Sox ever win a game.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 02:35 PM) Floyd aims his pitches. And he's bad. Coop will fix him.

QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) To the poster who said that the Sox should have traded Count for the same package... What the hell? Freddy was clearly in decline, maybe injured, and on his walk year. Count was one of the Sox best starters and most would have said that at worst count was going go tbe an above average pitcher this year. The deal for Garcia will always be a good one because of the fact we didnt have to pay his salary and it atleast gave us 2 pitchers, and if 1 of them becomes even decent its a fleecing. If you re read what I wrote, you will see that I never wrote he should have traded Contreras. If you do a search, I was one of the very few who liked this trade when it was made, because I thought Garcia would be awful. I just wrote that KW would have been better off trading Contreras for the same package and keeping Garcia even with Freddy's injury. He wouldn't have to worry about trying to dump a large contract right now.

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) It would be crap if we were 5 games out. The Sox are 10 games below .500 in the toughest divison in baseball. You say you want to see him in the spring. This is Spring training. You take the rest of the season to give extended looks to players that could play a role next season. Right now, it looks like Floyd is playing himself out of a job. But there is only one way to find out, and thats with playing time. He has 125 innings of big league experience. You probably would be hard pressed to find anyone with that much "experience" with a 7.32 career ERA. If you aren't convinced he sucks yet, you probably never will be.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) actually yes, because although gavin has been terrible, him and Gio have pitched more innings this year than Freddy, and he was a rental player. So really, it was a GREAT deal for KW and for the Sox. Getting nothing would have been a great deal. I mentioned yesterday if KW could have gotten the same package for Conteras and kept Freddy, even if Freddy didn't throw 1 pitch in 2007 he would have been better off. They still would have Gio and not be on the hook for Contreras or Garcia after this year.

Scott Ruffcorn had at least as good of minor league career as Gavin Floyd. He got 5 starts in a White Sox uniform and 31 total innings. There's not one person who would say he didn't get a fair opportunity or would say anything other than he sucked. Floyd has had his chances and he's been awful. Almost every out last night was a rocket. If he was pitching in any other park in baseball he would have given up another bomb. Why does he deserve a shot at the rotation? If he were a minor league free agent and had the exact same numbers and same stuff and was the same age, he would be DFA'd by now. Send him back to Charlotte, and see him in the spring. If he doesn't improve so what. He's out of options next year, so what. I doubt any team would give him a spot on their major league roster. This "we have to see what he can do" is crap. The Phillies saw what he can do. We have seen what he can do. Nothing good.

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 1, 2007 -> 10:08 AM) How do you get results, if you don't put them out there to try and get results? Floyd is bad... but what if he's told you are going to get your shot, it's now or never, you have the rest of the season to put it together, mental midget... get it right, or get DFA'd. By the way, what is his contract status? He has over 100 innings in the majors. Most with his results never get another opportunity. He is regressing every season. Why doesn't Haegar or Gio or someone else get a shot then. If Floyd warrant signficant stretch in the major league rotation, there are a lot of guys just as worthy. Give them a shot. Why not say to Floyd, look you have been awful. You're lucky you're getting a major league paycheck. Get someone out and keep the ball in the park and we will then, and only then give you a shot at a role in the rotation?

Why is putting Contreras out there every 5th game just giving the game away, and putting Floyd out there something different? As bad as Contreras has been, Floyd is just as if not more awful. At least Contreras has a history to suggest he may someday find success again. Putting Floyd out there sends the wrong message to others in the organization. Reward younger pitchers for results, not because they were part of a deal for a popular pitcher.

Gavin Floyd has now allowed 8 homers in 14 1/3 innings this season. In his last 94 2/3 innings on the major league level he has allowed 125 hits 98 runs 27 homers 53 walks and 59 strikeouts. He really shouldn't be in the major leagues. I have a feeling he will be looking for another line of work reasonably soon.

QUOTE(frankie5angels @ Jul 31, 2007 -> 10:43 PM) We must really suck then because we went 4-14 against the NL this year. The Sox do suck. 6 games against the Cubs, 3 against Pittsburgh, 3 against the Marlins, 3 against Houston, 3 against Phil. Houston, Pittsburgh and Florida are awful. The Cubs took 5 out of 6 and Philly lost 2 out of 3 to KC, Det, and Cleve. but swept the Sox.