Dick Allen

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:47 AM) Injuries are a poor excuse. They've just under an average number of injuries, way more than last year, but they're no where near as banged up as teams like Texas and Los Angeles have been. They seem like they're unusually banged up because for the last couple years they've been unbelievably healthy and so a return to "below average" number of injuries from "record low" seems like a major jump. If at the start of the year you picked 7 or 8 guys that this team couldn't afford to have go on the DL (Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Frazier, Quintana, Robertson, Lawrie, Cabrera, Rodon, Jones) none of them have had DL stints. Rodon was on the DL. Lawrie is on the DL.

QUOTE (Coach @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 08:25 AM) The Sox woes this year are not entirely Robin's fault. They have had their fair share of injuries. However, as I have said, more than a few on the team seem to not play with 100% effort. And let us not forget the lack of fundamentals from bad base running to throwing to the wrong base. I have also seen players jogging to 1st base on routine grounders. Sure, this is the big league and will be normally out, but hustle puts pressure on the other team to make the play. All it takes is hustle to try and beat the throw. If the player is safe, that is a potential run. If a player does not hustle, he shows he does not care. That to me is unacceptable at any level. This part is on Robin and management for not promoting effort is everything. Bottom line, winning baseball starts with a winning attitude. Robin is in his final month and a half as a White Sox manager, but let's not make things up. This team gives full effort. They have come back from being down many times, including last night. And I don't know how anyone can say they are throwing to the wrong base this season. That's just untrue.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 18, 2016 -> 07:02 AM) In terms of long term impact and development, im more excited about those walks from Anderson than if they were hits. He has gotten a lot of 3 ball counts during his time, but showing the ability to lay off and take ball 4 portends well....gotta throw him a strike to get him out. If he is swinging at strikes, his walk total doesn't really matter. But I do agree he does get a lot of ball 3 counts. He has gone out of the zone many times after that. I think with time he will walk more. Never a lot, but something more normal. One odd stat on Anderson is only Abreu and Melky have grounded into more DP. And if you did it per plate appearance, Anderson would lead the team.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 06:46 PM) Isn't it amazing he didn't pull a homer all year in AAA It jumps off his bat the other way as well. The first time I saw him live I was sitting on the club level first base side and he hit a foul ball into the RF corner that wasn't a line drive and got out there what seemed to me to be incredibly quick. I dismissed it in my mind thinking I have never really heard Anderson and power mentioned together. But he has a lot. Obviously, he needs some polishing, but he is potentially a really big offensive threat.

Anderson has a lot more power than advertised.

Ranaudo is not a major league pitcher

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) The Reds did try to make Chapman a starter. http://grantland.com/the-triangle/r-i-p-to...roldis-chapman/ You consider that trying to make him a starter? They brought him up as a reliever and never changed. He signed as a starter. Got 13 starts when he signed. All of his other "starts" were rehab assignements where he went 1 inning.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 02:58 PM) Yeah this is my beef with what has taken place since draft. He was drafted and it was "oh Sox must think he can start" then we hear Hostetler say they'll decide in offseason, which makes sense. But if they bring him up it just screams to me that this is the start of his career as a reliever and there will be no attempt to stretch him out in offseason. They know he doesn't have the command to be a starter yet. He throws 102. That's pretty good. Was it wrong the Reds didn't try to make Chapman a starter? One problem with guys that have this gift of triple digit gas out of the bullpen, you make them a starter, and suddenly it's 94 or 95. If it doesn't work out, many times it doesn't come back. If this guy is Nate Jones or Bobby Jenks, or someone of that ilk, it was a good pick. If he becomes an elite closer, we will be very happy the Sox decided to spend the 26th pick on a reliever. I am of the belief they are not going to stretch him out. I guess a good question for the people opposed is if your scouts think this guy's ceiling is an elite closer and he has 102 MPH gas, what is the highest position he should be drafted? Is the second round OK? The White Sox just need as many guys possible to be successful. What round they ultimately were drafted in makes no difference after the signing bonuses are paid.

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) Regarding Hansen, I have to take a college pitcher's rookie league production with a huge grain of salt. Of course, but the good thing is, the numbers couldn't be expected to be better, and if he can get his mechanics right and throw strikes, he is a top of the rotation possibility. Right now, many of this draft's selections look great. A few will fall off the radar. Hopefully Hansen isn't one.

The great Theo Epstein once drafted a college reliever with the 26th pick in the draft.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 02:08 PM) Yes Dick, we know that's what most teams do. All that is going on here at a White Sox fan message board is White Sox fans simply having a debate as to why Jake Burdi was the best player on the team's board at #26. Maybe history will prove out that he was, and maybe it won't. But given that Burdi is a reliever, questioning his pick in the first round is certainly reasonable. Questioning it just because he is a reliever is a reach. And you don't even seem to know who you are arguing about.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) Well I am happy that I'm not a Cubs fan or Indians fan or Red Sox fan. You are spot on about that! But getting back to the original point, again, I think I'd rather be drafting the Noah Syndergaards of the world or a five-tool position player in the first round over Jake Burdi types. Well they did draft Alec Hansen. Maybe he's one of those. The fact remains, if any of these guys are successful, it was a good draft pick. There is a lot of failure from even teams with no Jerry Reinsdorf influence at that stage of the draft. The White Sox are just picking the best player on their board. It's what most teams do.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 01:30 PM) Didn't devalue him. Wanted to trade him when his value was at a premium. Still do. Buy low, sell high works a lot better than the Williams/Hahn buy high, sell low approach. Seems his value is a little higher now. You said he wasn't as good as his numbers. Turns out he was better. Sort of the definition of devalue. But hey, you might have received a couple of prospects who could be good some day and you could have always blamed Robin or someone else on the Sox coaching staff for not getting more out of Eaton and increasing his trade value.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 12:55 PM) Then work him as a starter. If he has starter skills, then Williams and Hahn are devaluing him in the pen. Not that devaluation of their own players is anything new out of these 2.... Aren't you the guy who devalued Adam Eaton last year?

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 12:46 PM) The highest-paid starting pitchers, by average annual value: 1. Zack Greinke, $34,416,666 (2016-21) 2. David Price, $31,000,000 (2016-22) 3. Clayton Kershaw, $30,714,286 (2014-20) 4. Max Scherzer, $30,000,000 (2015-21) 5. Jon Lester, $25,833,333 (2015-20) 6. Justin Verlander, $25,714,286 (2013-19) 7. Felix Hernandez, $25,000,000 (2013-19) … Stephen Strasburg, $25,000,000 (2017-23) 9. Zack Greinke, $24,500,000 (2013-18) 10. CC Sabathia, $24,400,000 (2012-16) Relief pitchers The highest-paid relief pitchers, by average annual value: 1. Mariano Rivera, $15,000,000 (2008-10) (2011-12) 2. Rafael Soriano, $14,000,000 (2013-14) 3. Brad Lidge, $12,500,000 (2009-11) … Jonathan Papelbon, $12,500,000 (2012-15) 5. Francisco Rodriguez, $12,333,333 (2009-11) 6. Jonathan Papelbon, $12,000,000 (2011) 7. Joe Nathan, $11,750,000 (2008-11) 8. Rafael Soriano, $11,666,667 (2011-13) 9. Francisco Cordero, $11,500,000 (2008-11) . . . David Robertson, $11,500,000 (2015-18) ouch You want to even it up or even flip it? Figure out what they get paid per inning.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 12:36 PM) A top 20 reliever is worth about 1.5 to 2.0 WAR A top 20 starter is worth about 5 WAR KC got away with having a very mediocre rotation with a lockdown bullpen. Cleveland and Detroit have been burned even with top 20 starters in their rotations, by bad bullpens in recent years. Games aren't won and lost based on WAR alone. Is it coincidence the Sox went from one of the best records in baseball to crap once their bullpen fell apart? A loss is a loss. A win a win. Just ask Jose Quintana.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) The Sox have been amazing at converting and stretching starters. If anyone can do it, it will be them. Even if it doesn't happen, with what a closer is worth today, you have got to reevaluate the old idea of what relievers are worth in the draft. I mean look what a pending free agent wife beater was worth on the open market. Look what Boston gave up for Kimbrel, and what Cleveland gave up for Miller. I am starting to think the bullpen is becoming the most important part of a team. Are there many bad teams with a good bullpen?

Also shorter stints on the mound, but I do agree, it used to be you didn't have more than a couple of guys who threw much harder than 90 if that on any one team.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:44 AM) Previous players drafted at pick #26 have nothing to do with Zack Burdi. Just tossing that out. No but it shows there are a lot of misses at that point in the draft. By every team. If he is a contributing reliever, he was a nice selection. If he's elite, he was a steal. It reminds me of when the Bears drafted Kyle Long in the first round. Many were irate, you don't draft a guard in the first round. One quote was he doesn't provide enough value. Well, maybe sometimes you should.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) No I'm not missing the point, just taking your silly argument to a ridiculous end. It was reported that scouts thought he could possibly be a starter and even reports that the Sox intended to make him one. Spending a couple years attempting to make him a top of the rotation starter is a much better option with minimal downside. After a year or two if that didn't work just make him a reliever again. The extra innings of experience would serve him well anyway. My silly argument that if the guy is a player, he isn't a stupid pick. Gottcha. Just look at what teams give up for top relievers these days. It's a lot more than a #26 pick.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:22 AM) He might have three pitches, but I'd be stunned if the Sox use him as anything but a reliever. They've really given no indications of stretching him out. That could change this off-season, but it will be a pretty big thing to do to stretch out a guy who ha been pitching in relief in college and thus doesn't have a track record of throwing all those innings. Nothing wrong with that, but if the Sox think he can be a legit big league closer, I don't see them spinning their wheels trying to turn him into a starter as that will require pretty significant time in the minors and a lot more development, imo. People can use Sale as an example, but Sale was a starter in college who they rested his arm and then stretched him out. Again, it absolutely could be something they work on and they can try to extend him in the pen, etc, just haven't seen much indication that they are going that route. I don't think he is going to start either, in fact it seemed Hostetler basically admitted that in his interview with rabbit. Still, if he is good, its a great pick. There are a ton of misses at that point in the draft.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:19 AM) Nope, I am not of that mind at all. But I do understand where GreenSox is going with all of this, which is that in the first round it does stand to reason that you would be far more motivated to select a talent along the lines of a potential future star position player or starting pitcher, before going after a reliever. So if we passed on a future Syndergaard or an Aaron Judge or Michael Kopech in favor of a reliever, then we better hope said reliever turns out to be closer to the Goose Gossages and Bruce Sutters of the world, or else this pick could look like a missed opportunity. Then you must be really happy you aren't a Cubs fan or Indians fan or Red Sox fan. Look at all the minor league talent they gave up for relief pitchers.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 11:08 AM) I like how I contributed to the salient point that GreenSox was making which is questioning the type of talent we ought to be selecting with the #26 pick, by showing recent picks at either #26 or after the 26th pick. So no matter what kind of career he has, if Burdi is a career relief pitcher, you are with GreenSox, it was a terrible pick.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:57 AM) There's never been a decent reliever picked at #26 so obviously it was a bad pick. You are missing the point. #26 picks historically haven't been all that great. Not just the White Sox but league wide. In fact, the White Sox drafted one of the most successful #26 overall picks in the last 25 years, Mark Johnson. Not exactly a guy you can build a team around. If this guy is successful, it's a good pick. Even though he's ONLY a reliever. Like those guys aren't getting more important by the minute these days.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Aug 17, 2016 -> 10:48 AM) The point is that you don't draft CEILING relief pitchers in the first round. You hope for better...some will work out and others won't. I they don't work out as starters then they can be reliever. Your logic would field a 60 win team...let's use our first round picks for guys were confident can be relievers and utility infielders...whoopee! What the Sox lack are impact players. These players must usually be drafted or signed internationally. Williams and Hahn have done a particularly poor job at org building. And let's be honest. Burdi was drafted to help the pen THIS year; Now that even Williams, Hahn and their Ouiji Board have to realize the Sox aren't in it, it's time to develop him as a starter. Too bad Courtney Hawkins wasn't available. If the guy can pitch, it's a good pick. The Tigers took Andrew Miller with the #8 pick. He's a reliever. I bet there are a lot of teams drafting 1-26 that year that would have loved to have had him.