Dick Allen

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 01:04 PM) Two hours to go, I still have faith that Zach Duke isn't the only trade. I would be shocked if it is. Considering how he was used, despite him not being the greatest, it was a sign of the towel being waved. Of course, except for Sale and Q, most of the Sox "chips" can probably clear waivers.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:58 PM) It's sad how predictable their failures are. Just like we're hear in December that the market is oversaturated with SP on the block, which decreases our pitchers value, and "why would someone give up all of that for Sale when they can pay half for Archer?" Last I checked, the best starter traded this deadline is Hill and he's on the DL. So it looks like failure is a league wide thing.

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) Absofrickinglutely. It's been horrible so many years when it was the Sox who always added-on to any deal, did all of the sweetening, to get the guy they just had to have (a/k/a "Kenny's guy"), no matter what. If it takes being hardcore to change that perception, you do it. That's also a form of "laying the groundwork." I think there's little doubt some of the power teams are applying the pressure because they know Hahn, KW, and company have an under-performing team with little help available on the farm. They see low-hanging fruit and they're looking to swipe it. Too bad. Given their talent/surplus (value) mix, Sale and Q are both insanely valuable trade chips. In Sale's case, we're talking perhaps a once in a generation trade chip. You don't give that away just because we're poor (baseball asset wise) and our trading partners are rich. Nobody wants to be the 40s - 60s teams that essentially functioned as the Yankees minor leagues. You want Sale? You want Q? Fine, we'll trade, but we expect to be wow'd. We don't have to give them up. (PS -- While we don't have to give them up now, I'd love to give them up if they get the RIGHT deal, because sooner or later -- perhaps off-season 17/18 -- we really will have to give them up for what we can get.) And if you cave on these guys, there isn't a player you won't cave on. They want them, they have to make a painful decision. I don't know why people would be upset they didn't move these guys when other teams didn't want to meet their price. A lesser package and they would be complaining about the prospects in a month or so.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:49 PM) Phil Rogers ‏@philgrogers 12s13 seconds ago @whitesox decision to deal Shields hinges on if he'll exercise opt-out after season. Dealt good piece (SS Fernando Tatis Jr.) to get him. First off why would he opt out? Secondly, Hahn did say they would be compensated if he did. Since there is no QO, I assume he meant SD would give them something.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:43 PM) Jon Heyman ‏@JonHeyman 33s34 seconds ago Jersey City, NJ red sox, dodgers, rangers have been 3 main teams in on sale/quintana. no sense at moment anything's close w/them They all are aware of the cost. A deal could get done as fast as they can say yes. Kudos to the White Sox for not budging.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) Puig LF Tilson CF Eaton RF and DH Melky. That'd take away Morneau. Morneau has been one of the more enjoyable hitters to watch since he came back.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:24 PM) Gonzalez, maybe? I think maybe they stopped for 15 minutes to eat lunch.

QUOTE (EvilJester99 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:21 PM) Joel Sherman says he is told RedSox not discussing Sale Maybe at the moment. Looks like they still can use some starting pitching.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:15 PM) I'm sure they're doing plenty. It would be awesome to be in their offices right now.

QUOTE (lasttriptotulsa @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) Puig only has three years of control left. Their interest is pretty telling to me that they plan on competing next year and pretty much signals zero chance at a complete rebuild. It would make zero sense to trade Sale and Quintana and then turn around and trade for Puig. Or they trade for him while his value is low, he has a bounce back and they trade him for a huge profit.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:12 PM) Puig's under team control until 2020, so he'd be more than a one-year rental. I'd rather have him than Shields, but I could easily see a scenario where Puig morphs into Avi with a stronger arm. He does have a stronger arm than Avi. In fact, he probably has a stronger arm than anyone. But he looks like he's turned into Avi at the plate. As much as Avi sucked, it was interesting to find out he had 17 OF assists last year, and tied MVP Josh Donaldson for the league lead in walk off hits.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 12:09 PM) Red Sox and White Sox still talking Sale per MLBN. I really don't understand this. If I was the White Sox GM, I would tell them, this is what I want. Unless you are willing to agree to that price, don't call me anymore. I am not haggling Chris Sale.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:41 AM) The tweet went viral and now he's backing out Chris Cotillo ‏@ChrisCotillo 1m1 minute ago Chris Cotillo Retweeted Jared Carrabis Just industry rumblings, I've heard nothing concrete. Just interesting in response to Olney saying CWS wants Puig. Oh my. Caulfield might actually become a White Sox fan.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:14 AM) It isn't though -- the "value" assigned to Moncada today doesn't have anything to do with the cost of acquiring him in the past. The Red Sox either made a good buy or a bad buy, but regardless, what they have TODAY is today's version of Moncada. It's a common stock market fallacy to think like you're suggesting. If you bought $1,000 of stock yesterday, it diminished to $500 in value today, you shouldn't balk at a chance to sell it for $600 simply because you had $1000 into it. I'm pretty sure they and the rest of baseball don't see his stock as dropping. The big payoff is going to be his pre-arb years, paying him nothing to hopefully put up huge WARs. If he's as good as advertised, there probably is as much value in him as there is in Sale. It's possible maybe they would do a straight up swap, but adding another top 10 guy plus others really would be a huge pill for Boston to swallow.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 11:05 AM) I can't stress enough how little sense the Moncada "money we have invested in him" thing makes. I highly doubt that's a real holdup, because DD is smarter than that. I think it makes total sense. It's $63 million added to the cost of acquiring Chris Sale.

Are these Boston or White Sox leaks that Stark has? It seems pretty silly Boston would be trying to lower the price by leaking there is less than a 5% chance. Give us Chris Sale for what we want to give you, or we won't make a deal. I don't think that moves the needle at 35th and Shields.

I do agree with Our Chuck. Just wait it out. No need to blink. This is a guy that can get you a WS this year and you still have him with about $50-$60 million discount the next 3 seasons. If they don't want to blink and don't win the WS, they have to live with it. It still would be an unprecedented trade if done after this season. Open it up to a few teams. With his contract, non contenders should be making offers for him now.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:36 AM) Yeah, again, I get it. And again, if you are going to dock me for that $63 million, it takes his value way the hell down...meaning, if you are going to include it in the equation for receiving Sale back, it's not like I am getting a prospect, it's like I am getting a $63 million guy that has never played. And it's why Boston isn't going to move him along.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:28 AM) Yeah, I follow you...but that isn't how negotiations work...we look at the market value of an asset, not the investment one counterparty may have made in that asset already. If you are going to dock me that $63 million for Moncada, that decreases his value to me incredibly...because you're essentially paying a prospect $63 million. The entire point of trading Chris is to acquire prospects who make extremely little for the first 6 years of service time. This guy essentially is making $10.5 million for the first 6 years of his service time. Maybe we can just trade them straight-up for Abreu? Moncada is already paid, as is the league. So you get what cost $63 million for minimum, plus his first few years making nothing.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:19 AM) The penalty is their own fault...I can understand the $31.5 million being part of the equation...the $63 million...not my problem. It's not your problem. It still is a reason Boston isn't going to trade him unless maybe you gave the Sale and Q. If you add the $63 million to the cost of the deal, it makes Sale not a bargain, but a properly paid $30 million a year guy. If his contract was $30 million a year, the package isn't as good as it is when he's a $15 million a year guy.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) Just taking a break from work to check on this. Man it would suck to not get Moncada for Sale. I'm not sure I make that deal. Maybe the sox don't like the contract of Moncada. Benintendi, Devers, Kopech and Rodriguez isn't enough I feel like. The Red Sox paid Moncada a $31.5 million bonus, and paid the league a $31.5 million penalty. They are invested $63 million. The Sox would pay him minimal amounts. It's Boston that doesn't want that $63 million investment to go away.

I actually like Phil Rogers more than most, but what he's tweeting out isn't any kind of insider stuff. Phil everyone knows Q or Sale would require a few top prospects.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 10:06 AM) Complication w/Moncada is @RedSox having invested $63 million in bonus and taxes to sign him. Puts him in separate category. https://twitter.com/philgrogers/status/760129399568101376 You should have listened to me last week. I stated the very same thing.

QUOTE (Hatchetman @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:33 AM) The Front Office Defending Crew likes to take various opinions from different people and then claim they have discovered inconsistencies. There are no inconsistencies? LMAO. What are the offers for Sale? Oh you don't know, but whatever they are or aren't, whatever the Sox do or don't do, they will blow it. If Sale or Quintana don't get traded today, what the true offers were for them will be irrelevant to many who will criticize them not being dealt. They will assume their unrealistic proposals were turned down.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 09:20 AM) Again, there are no indications that we have gotten that offer. In fact, the indiciations are that we are getting a package of middle of the road prospects, and not top ones. It would be pretty much an unprecedented trade. Teams trade their ace once in a while. But none that are pitching on a team friendly contract that has 3 more seasons to go. I really wonder if anyone knows how to price it, and the problem is he is still one guy who plays once every 5 days. Do you decimate your system on one guy who still can get hurt etc. or do you move on to a lesser guy with a far lower price tag? I think it's a really complicated thing. For the White Sox, it has to be a no brainer. For the other team, who all would love to have him, can they really justify the cost?