Dick Allen

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:36 AM) And that $31.9 million was invested into LaRoche, Cabrera, Robertson, Samardzija's deal, Duke, Bonifacio and Beckham. There's no way they made a profit last year. They couldn't even get legit offers on a lot of sponsorships and moved on instead of giving massive discounts that would be harder to raise price-wise in the future. If they broke even or lost $10 million, they still, even after signing these players, would be up over $20 million over the 2 year period. What were the sponsorships they lost out on? Do you have any links ? And what is the cost say to be the sponsor of the now Home Plate Club or the restaurant/bar in the parking lot?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:27 AM) Most likely, but also have to factor in that the KC didn't have to give up a pick, and there are reportedly significant deferrals which lower the present value of the deal. The "present day value" is a BS tool owners use to try to make a contract look less valuable. Look at interest rates and tell me how deferring $2 million for 2 years, $2 million for 3 years and $4 million for 4 years lowers the actual value of the contract significantly. Besides, that "savings" is apparently being spent elsewhere, therefore not making the Royals anything sitting somewhere.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) Because if they are second to the punch they likely won't get Cespedes or Upton? As it was, according to all reports here they were first on Gordon and were outbid three days later. But that second/last chance was for a hometown hero, not "mercenary" free agent. So they will sign the minute a team offers them the term they want. They wouldn't go around seeing if that could be topped. Got it. As ss2k5 wrote earlier, you can always increase a bid. Lowering it doesn't work so well. How many teams have moaned they would have offered a player more money but they just didn't get an opportunity to make another offer? I'm guessing not too many.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:12 AM) You're right, and most of the whining is just us throwing our thoughts out there because there just hasn't been any news...except for the Sox saying (supposedly) that they won't go over three years. Bottom line is, though, that we don't know what offers are out there, and we don't know what the Sox offered Gordon. But it is concerning when the oldest guy of the big three gets a four year deal at $18 million per year, and the Sox are supposedly not going to offer Cespedes more than three years. The point being that 3 year limit is a media tweet. The same media that said there was virtually no chance Gordon goes back to KC. Things change. Teams throw up a lot of BS when negotiating huge contracts. The Sox were going over $50 million for Abreu but did by almost 40%. It doesn't appear Cespedes would sign for 3 years, but he really doesn't have the relationship Gordon had with KC with any team, and perhaps KC had to go to 4 years with a 5th option because the White Sox stretched out a bit. We really don't know.

QUOTE (spiderman @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 10:09 AM) That could be a reasonable position to take in terms of Gordon, but what if the White Sox have this same standard for Cespedes or Upton? They might, they might not. It could be a negotiating tool. Why complain about it until it's actually proven to be a fact? If it turns out to be true, and neither signs for 3 years, then complain. I just don't get the they won't sign anybody theme going on now because one guy is off the board.

#Royalstalk

How many teams offered Gordon 4 years other than KC? What are the current offers for Cespedes? What are the offers for Upton? What was the Sox best offer for Gordon? If you answered I really don't know to these questions, any whining about the White Sox and how they are NEGOTIATING currently with free agents is premature.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 09:39 AM) Those are two year cycles...2005 going into 2006, and post 2006 into 2007. And those were two of our winningest teams. The point remains, when have the White Sox upped payroll for TWO consecutive years following losing or below .500 seasons with low/marginal profitability? TWO consecutive years. Very simple request. You like to site Forbes. Their numbers from the 2015 season aren't out, but 2014, according to them was profitable by 31.9 million. Can you let us know the P & L for 2015? Why don't you at least take 30 seconds to look something up once in a while? Your built in conclusions are almost always incorrect.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 08:55 AM) b/c the sox will not go out and get a marque players via fa's..... all this talk in the fa market is just lip service from the FO ... just my opinion and it will not change until they do sign someone. but in ref, these are posters of looking at 3 or 4th tier options. the sox org has trained the fans to look for those options, b/c of .... oh well i have ranted on this, i will stop here. it is really hard in being a die hard sox fans. when mgnt does not care. I haven't once heard Hahn or KW or JR say they were going after Gordon or Cespedes or Upton. The only thing I see leaked is a 3 year max requirement. I think your FO lip service is misguided. There are a lot of assumptions being made by everyone including myself. But what is actually happening we really don't know and may not ever know. The hope was they would sign one of these guys. Two guys are still on the board and the consensus now is they have no chance on anyone, and it's based on Alex Gordon going back to KC after KC significantly upped their offer and made him leaving about as likely as Konerko leaving after 2005. People need to relax and see how this plays out. There are 2 huge guys still on the board.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 08:45 AM) What is your solution, other than the obvious? Waiting with bated breath...as for Duensing, he is good friends with Gordon and I would have invited him to come in and compete with Jennings, Carroll, Beck and Turner as a non roster invitee. No guaranteed salary. Your proposal, as unrealistic as it was, was to sign Latos for $10-12 million, sign Parra for $8 million, sign Desmond in June for $10 million. Now you say JR doesn't have the appetite to raise the payroll to $140 million. Your proposal raises it to $150 million. Pick one side of your mouth to argue.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 08:30 AM) Are you still in the camp that really believes we're getting Cespedes or Upton? I'll ask this. Other than maybe 2005-2007, when has the White Sox payroll expanded 10-15% over two consecutive seasons...in this case, losing seasons where the team profits were low or marginal compared to that time period? 2009, when we added Peavy and Rios, we were coming off a playoff appearance. 2011, we were coming off a season where we led the division for a large chunk of time. The only other time would have to have been 2013-2014 with Abreu (and then last offseason), but I'm pretty sure overall payroll decreased significantly despite that addition. I hope so. And stop with the payroll. You guys who said the Sox have no money where shocked last year, and then you point to Forbes but then ignore the PROFITS this team has made every year except one. Where is that money Caulfield? You have all the answers. Did it vanish? The Sox are still talking to these guys. Its funny, the Sox are in on all 3. Gordon signs back with KC after they apparently increased their offer about 50%. Now, they supposedly aren't signing anybody because they have no money, but, but, Nick Markakis at $11 million a year for the next 3 years makes sense. NO IT DOESN'T. It's just spending $33 million more that could have been spent on something actually useful that vanished with all of the White Sox $200 million + in profit Forbes has claimed over the years. But I will add him to your list of horrible players you want the Sox to spend their, in your mind, limited resources. Latos, Parra, Markakis, Duensing, and Desmond in June. The list is growing.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 08:16 AM) In all fairness to Cy, it's only a back-up option probably #15-20. Mainly, if we could get rid of Danks' salary and or get salary and prospects (someone that came over from Arizona or Olivera, etc.) back. It's obviously easier to say Gardner, Span, Parra, Fowler, Inciarte, any one of the Rockies, Ozuna, Ethier...but at what cost? Honestly, JR probably doesn't have the appetite for two marginal upgrades that simultaneously boost payroll to $140 million plus. Adding bad, declining players, owed $33 million does nothing to help the White Sox. If that is the only choice, you might as well see what Avi can give you, as Steamer projects a 0.3 difference in their 2016 WARS. As to the payroll, once again, despite all your claims to the contrary, you have zero idea what JR is thinking. None of us do.

Markakis' defense has been bad for years, now he's slappy at the plate, and some want to pick him up for the next 3 seasons of decline? If he was a guy that stole bases, his walks would be valuable, but he only gets a couple of those a year. The White Sox can do so much better. Steamer projects a 0.6 WAR in 2016.

QUOTE (Alexeihyeess @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 06:57 PM) Fowler and Upton are complementary, Cespedes is transformative. Just ask the Mets or the A's. Upton and Cespedes have about double the WAR/game rate than Fowler for their careers.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) First #1 overall draft pick to get into the HOF. And he goes in with Piazza, a 62nd round pick, the lowest draft choice to ever get elected.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 06:20 PM) Apparently I need to repeat this. So you think if the Mets traded for Fowler instead of Cespedes they would have made the World Seriies or would have come close?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 05:12 PM) He'd help on this but if you look closely his OBP has a clearly worrisome downward signal. 2011: .369 2012: .355 2013: .354 2014: .342 2015: .336 So yeah, better than Cespedes at getting on base, more power than Fowler, but also gets on base less than Fowler and striking out a lot more. Again, if this team isn't competitive with Fowler, they're not competitive with the big 2 no matter how much bigger their names are. If this team is competitive with the big 2, they're just about as close with Fowler and need a tiny bit of additional work to match the bigger names. For the perhaps 20-25 times more often a season Fowler might get on base, I'll take the 10-15 extra home runs.

If you took what Merkin says as gospel, Todd Frazier would not be a White Sox, and Hahn wouldn't have spent hours on the phone with Alex Gordon's agent.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 02:59 PM) In other words, the Sox will swoop in and nab Austin Jackson when all the good outfielders are taken. Not a bad plan. Really struggled hitting with Seattle, but that isn't unique. He's 29. Have him play CF, move Eaton to RF. He's usually been close to a 3 WAR player. Might be able to sign him for a song. I would guess they are still in on Cespedes and Upton, but a guy like Jackson, while not the sexy move, could turn out to be a good one. Signing a beat up Jermaine Dye didn't excite the fanbase, but he earned his money and then some.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Sorry DA but I disagree. Writers can write whatever they want and the fans can believe whatever they want but nowhere has JR, KW or Hahn said the Sox were raising the payroll budget to afford such a FA signing. It has been rumored that Hahn has the '15 budget with which to work for '16 and the Sox are already there, its probably why Hahn has said they would need to get "creative" to sign a FA. "Creative" in the sense of trading salary (LaRoche rumors) in order to sign a FA. If fans are pissed it should be at their self for believing the media rumors. Rick Hahn has said he is going to add an OF. Even Merkin confirmed the White Sox would be adding an OF. It might not be Cespedes or Upton, but they are not going into the season hoping Avi figures crap out, and playing the "we'll trade for someone in June if needed" game they have played and failed in the past. Another OF will be added. As HOFer Frank Thomas would say, "no doubt about it."

QUOTE (Sockin @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 02:33 PM) White Sox in no rush to sign outfielder That article should piss some people off. If that really was the plan, I wouldn't blame anyone for being pissed off, but even Merkin reported the White Sox would bring in an OF.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 02:03 PM) Did the Royals actually make the best offer? I stand by the premise of my post. Yes I'd leave 30 million on the table to stay with a team I just won a WS with, where I was totally comfortable with my routine, the way the team does things, the way I like to prepare for games, not having to prove myself to new fans and a new, big city. The reason? Cause I got 18 mil a year for four years from the team I'm comfy with, and that frankly, is enough in my mind. Now if the Royals offer was indeed the best he could have gotten, my bad. If the Royals actually won some sort of bidding war, again, my bad. The only thing I saw was the White Sox offer was 3 years. Maybe a team offered him more, but not significantly more. If a team offered him $30 million more he would have a lot of union pressure because he basically would be suppressing the future earnings of a lot more players than himself.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 01:51 PM) I'm surprised more players don't do what Gordon did. Stay put if they are that popular. I don't know if any team offered more, I haven't read enough yet, but four years at 18 million a year will have he and all his immediate relatives set for life a couple times over. I would think quality of life would factor in at some point (I know it doesn't) over a few more million dollars. Not every player needs a new city, a new challenge. This guy just won a WS, which means he can just continue to do his thing. If at some point he starts to suck, the fans will be way more forgiving here than anywhere else. I just think the Paulie discount is a smart thing for a player who has won a WS to do. I'm assuming Gordon coulda got 20 mill a year for five years from somebody. That would be 30 more million dollars total. Yes, a ton of money, but again, what price is quality of life and comfort zone when it's all monopoly money. From a Sox standpoint for some reason I despise Melky more than Avi. I won't be despondent if Avi gets the proverbial final chance. If a team offered him 5/$100 million, he wouldn't have re-signed with the Royals. If he's all about winning and life and not about cash, he probably has enough in the bank to live a sweet rest of his life, or he could take $10 million a year, and be fine, and tell the Royals to spend the rest on other players. He, Paulie, who was in the exact same boat when he was a free agent after the White Sox won the WS, will take a discount to a certain point.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 01:40 PM) This is the way i look at it as well. sign the deal that makes the most sense for this year while keeping the future in mind. They need to start building a consistent winner, not just look to this year. In the years before Maggs, the Sox had a stretch where they did a good job with a rent a RF. DJ, then Burks. Tartabull had a decent year. I miss those days when they had no problem finding hitters.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Jan 6, 2016 -> 01:42 PM) Serious question here, who would you rather have for 1.5 million if they are side-by-side and unsigned/available? Probably Turner. He is going to be turning 25 in a month or so, and was a top of the line prospect not long ago. But, I think the medical people would make the final decision.