Dick Allen

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 12:45 PM) haaaaaaaa The best part is Iowa fans taking offense when many refer to Iowa State as Moo U. Al Roker did call them Iowa State at the Rose parade, and they played like Iowa State during the game. I am sure the goal was to get Iowa fans to boo. Were people other than the usual people who are offended by anything really offended? BTW, cow tipping is like snipe hunting, a fake sport. You cannot tip cows. As an Iowa alum, I would think fans were far more offended by the score than by a band of college kids doing what college kids do. Of course if you are there you will boo, but I doubt there was total outrage which some of the reports seem to want to convey.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 12:50 PM) Neither does Cespedes or Gordon for that matter Yeah, he has actually played RF 57 more games in the major leagues than Cespedes and Gordon combined.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 12:25 PM) Yes, because the cocaine did not improve his performance, it hindered it. If nothing else he admitted to not sliding properly and getting tagged out on stolen bases because he didn't want to break the vial of coke in his pocket. Isn't cocaine consumption against the law? Tim Raines is supposedly about as nice of a guy as there is. If he was an ass, the coke would always be mentioned. I personally think his problem with getting in has been he played a long time as a good player.. I think his peak in Montreal gets watered down by it. Besides Rickey Henderson, you could make an argument he was the second most disruptive offensive player in baseball for 8 or 9 years. Truly awesome. He was a good player for the White Sox, but not anything like he was during his prime years. His performance IMO has earned him a plaque. The PED thing comfuses me. If both pitchers and hitters were juicing, whose performance is enhanced more? Bonds vs. Clemens clean vs. juiced. I wonder what the difference would be, Ii have read where 70% was an estimate for how many players used PEDs. I would guess some were on a program like Bonds, and guys like Pablo Ozuna probably took supplements that contained something they shouldn't consume, and it didn't help them all that much. The zits on the back though is pretty damning. In the locker room at my health club the other day I saw a muscle bound guy with a back loaded with zits. I assumed he was using steroids.

He still is on MLBN, so I would imagine he will still be tweeting.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 11:42 AM) I wouldn't be surprised either, but it's not like he has a history of willing to go over the tax limit. The problem with going over is once you go over the penalty gets more severe each year you are over, and as long as he has Cabrera and Verlander on the books, trying to remain competitive and getting under signing another big contract might be tough. Maybe the limits change the next CBA. But there was talk about budget starting to be an issue in Detroit for about a year now. He may not really mind spending , but I don't know if his heirs feel the same.

I don't understand this Desmond as a Zobrist type player. Why would he be competent at all these other positions without playing them, and if he can't get paid the money he is looking for as a SS, wouldn't playing another position just make his bat less valuable?

There are a lot of total assholes in the HOF. Bonds was IMO a HOF worthy player before it became obvious he was juicing. I am sure there are guys in that have juiced, and have cheated many different ways. With the PED guys I was always no to getting in, but on a couple they seem to have been declared guilty with the evidence being stats and/or body. Harold Baines had some big years in his late 30s. Was he juicing? Tim Raines used cocaine when he played, even the documentary said he occasional kept a vial in his uniform pocket. Is he more innocent than a Bagwell or Piazza? It looks like Piazza has a shot this year, but by numbers alone, he should have been first ballot. No failed test, just a report about zits on his back.

Of course you have to ask yourself do you really want to commit to a player for 5 years if they themselves seem to be doubting what their performance will be in 3 years,

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 10:05 AM) The problem with scenario is that you end up with a scottie pippen situation where he got good money early but whines about "being disrespected" with being paid like a backup at the end of the deal. Its a no win for the team. Pipped whined but he performed. The thing was, even if they wanted to, at least at that time it was against the rules of the NBA to renegotiate contracts. And they did him a solid with a sign and trade to Houston. It is funny, for all the whining Pippen did, and the demanding to be traded, now he is part of the organization again. And he came back for peanuts at the end of his career to play for a non contender. The Pippen/Bulls relationship is pretty bizarre. I

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:58 AM) Not saying it won't still be loaded and much better than the 2016 and 2017 FA classes, but I think everyone is overrating how good the 2018 FA class will be. A few years ago Austin Jackson was a 4-5 WAR player, Asdrubal Cabrera and David Freese were All-Stars, and Latos and Fister were 4 WAR pitchers, and now their value has significantly diminished compared to then. A similar drop-off will happen to several of these guys, whether by simple regression in performance or injury or both. Guys who would have been free agents this year like McCutchen, Bumgarner, Stanton, Posey, Gonzalez and Gardner signed extensions in that window. And you know at least 1 or 2 guys will completely fall off the map like Matt Kemp did compared to 2011-2012. I agree with you. In the end, it still will probably be pretty good, but it won't be as good as it looks now, and these guys won't be competing with the Harpers anyway.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:35 AM) That's what Bob was saying. He would not expect any of the three to say sign a 5 year deal with an opt out after three. He said the reason these guys may decide to sign a short term deal is because they can renter the market either next year or in two years and capitalize on a weak FA class , that is if they believe in themselves enough to sign short termZ The thing with an opt out is you don't have to opt out. I don't know why they would be opposed to signing for 5 years with an opt out after 3 even if they are scared of the big free agent class. If it doesn't look like you will get paid, you still have 2 years left on the contract. Besides, if they are afraid of the guys in 2018, they must not be too confident their performance would make a team want to pay them.

QUOTE (Lillian @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:37 AM) Nightengale says: $20 to $22 Million per year is the range he forsees for these guys. Short term deal should pay more, as the player is not requiring the longer term guarantee. Sox "3 yr. deal" offer looks very firm. 1 or 2 years is more attractive to players, as the 3RD year will see a strong F.A. market again. His opinion on New contracts with opt outs: He thinks that it totally favors the players, not the teams. Team stuck if guy performs poorly, and if he does well, he leaves. Also gives players a chance to see how he likes playing for that particular organization and in that city. IMO, he doesn't get it. He never mentioned the front office's motivation, nor did he discuss how such deals can keep a player motivated. He provided less insight and worthwhile analysis than we fans are offering, on this forum. The opt out has always been good for players. He isn't wrong. But for a team willing to reallocate resources and let the player opting out walk, it would have worked out splendidly for several teams.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:27 AM) Nightengale saying three years maybe a must in order for the sox to get one of the three. I tend to doubt it unless their markets have become really depressed. I am quite sure the White Sox understand if teams are throwing 4 and 5 year offers at these guys and they are only willing to go to 3, they would be wasting their time and move on. It is all part of negotiation. Each side is looking for their best deal. I am sure every team would like to commit no more than 3 years to any of these guys. at the end, you have to be the high bidder. It isn't the end right now, no point throwing out your best offer.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 09:07 AM) The quotation was always about a younger, in the very beginning of his prime ace...at least the Tanaka example. Abreu was at that similar age, 26/27. Upton is the closest to that description. Long term solution to one of their needs. A 4 or 5 year solution some would consider long term. There was no age bracket mentioned. The money is obviously available.

This is the article where the Sox lost out on Tanaka with the pit $100 million bid plus $20 million posting fee. The last paragraph Hahn has a quote, saying that money will be there for the right piece. http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/print...ws&c_id=cws

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 08:51 AM) Announcing an official intended budget would kind of be counterproductive...we can do it fairly closely looking at attendance, projected season ticket sales, profit/loss in the prior year and following all the Forbes numbers cumulatively. Can you provide links to projected season ticket sales, and the 2015 P&L? You have no idea what the budget it. No one here does. And if you are following Forbes numbers you will have to conclude they are sitting on a pile of cash.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 2, 2016 -> 08:34 AM) The problem is the White Sox would be $30-35 million over their supposed budget this year...that big a jump would be unprecedented without following playoffs or competitive seasons. Next year, less of an issue. Essentially it's deliberately spending into a loss for at least one year or more if it backfires..for a payoff more likely in 2017 and 18. What have the White Sox publicly announced as their 2016 payroll budget? And how is saying it is a big problem when in another thread you said they should sign Latos, Desmond, and Parra for $30 million ? Just try once to be consistent.

Apparently these guys aren't getting offered anything if the White Wox have been mentioned as favorites to sign them but are only offering 3 years or less. Negotiating is a game. We should see what ultimately happens before the hopes drain. There is a lot of bad information out there, some made up by attention mongers and some thrown out there by teams and agents. Maybe this piece was thrown out their by an agent trying to get other teams offering more than 3 years.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 04:48 PM) If he can hit .270, with 15 bombs and around 70 rbi, then he's earning his salary. Anyone expecting more than that will be disappointed, but that's on them for having unrealistic expectations. The 3 seasons prior that he had been healthy, he had at least an .800 OPS. Maybe there was help, but he put one up after he was busted. He has more .800 OPS seasons the last 4 years than Cespedes.

QUOTE (Markbilliards @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 04:22 PM) I've read a lot of posts on here during the offseason speak about Melky Cabrera like he had an awful year and they expect a big rebound in '16. Or that we should find a way to get rid of him in the same sense we need to get rid of Laroche. I've kind of been wondering why so many people think his 2015 was so bad, and I'm curious what they expected. Perhaps that line of thought is fueled by the dichotomy of his 1st and 2nd half last year, but I don't think he finished much differently than I expected when we signed him. Perhaps a little worse, but nothing too significant. Stat: 2015/Career Average AVE: .273/.285 OBP: .314/.336 OPS: .709/.748 HR: 12/12 (Rate based career AB/HR with 629 ABs) RBIs: 77/75 (Rate based career AB/RBI with 629 ABs) Obviously this isn't close to his monster, yet suspension shortened 2012 numbers, but we clearly didn't expect to see those 2012 numbers. Are people expecting him to be something more than a 15 HR .280 hitter from a 1 time all star?? His problem was he started out so slowly without power. I think he puts up better numbers with the improved offense. His defense wasn't good, but he did throw.a lot of guys out and didn't throw to the wrong base all the time.

QUOTE (soxfan49 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 04:03 PM) But the question is: why? The Bears are a middle of the pack offense Not many jobs will be open and I'd much rather have Shula, Payton or Hue Jackson. Hell, I don't even think I'd want him over Fangio Considering how many players they were without, middle of the pack is an accomplishment..

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 03:02 PM) Bartolo Colon begs to differ I don't know, his time down to 1B was over 7 seconds.

If paying Mat Latos $10-12 million is a market inefficiency, the White Sox are going to need a ton more revenue.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:32 PM) And specifically saying he wanted to play with the Cubs' young core and Maddon as opposed to a theoretically better deal in terms of total guaranteed dollars from the Cards. What would you expect him to say at a Cubs news conference? Do players say I really wish I wasn't taking this $184 million?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:30 PM) Correct, but the point was he didn't take the most money available. He signed to contract for other reasons than the biggest contract. He signed it with the possibility of more money later, hopefully. Yes. But do you really think if there was no opt out he would have taken $16 million less for 8 years?