Dick Allen

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:23 PM) So, in other words, he signed this deal due to the opt outs not the most money in the deal. He signed it with the possibility of more money later not more money now. Isn't his average about $28 million the first 3 years? Then he could opt out. He is risking about $16 million with a chance to make a lot more. If he is great, Theo probably lets him walk, and gets 3 prime years out of him, and doesn't have to pay for the decline. I still think he is going to start hitting homers, but his defense will fall off a bit. 245 pound guys legs don't age all that well IMO.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:22 PM) Finished? That was constructive. How about you come up with a back-up plan for when/if the Big 3 fall through for $30 million. You sure enjoy being sarcastic but never provide anything other than general platitudes, lectures or generic comments such as it would be nice to get Gordon or Cespedes. Quite insightful. And when have Boras clients not gone on the open market and signed hometown discounts, by the way? I just hope someone keeps a list of all your recommendations. Latos, Desmond, Duensing, Parra. You name enough crappy players one is bound to hit for you and you can remind us all summer. I have already said what I would do. With names. And as stated, the Royals, if they can't afford Gordon now, are screwed. They should start rebuilding immediately.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:21 PM) Weren't there reports that he was offered 200 million by other teams? By his own admission during interviews, he was offered more money elsewhere. He did not however specify the amount. Technically he was, but without the opt outs when he gets his money the first 3 years and then signs another huge contract.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:17 PM) According to all media accounts, he was offered more money elsewhere. If this is true then there were others things that played into signing the contract with the cubs. Overall, but with the opt outs, if he is any good, he will make more. The players association doesn't like players, especially the really big names taking discounts. That is why I doubt Gordon would go back to the Royals if their offer is significantly less than any other team. A slight discount is fine, but a large one would be a no no.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 02:08 PM) So you're 100% confident Johnson and Saladino will keep their spots all season long then? And you're 100% confident Latos would be good in the AL, Parra's fall off in Baltimore was just a mirage, and Desmond will be one of the first players to sign in June and live up to his contract. $28 million, which as pointed out would be very low, 100% confident. Maybe that is what the Royals will do, and they will start selling off parts at the deadline. If they can't offer Gordon market rate after 2 WS appearances, they will be totally screwed if they don't make the playoffs and get that additional revenue. No way those remaining sign extensions, and I'm sure the great leader Sal Perez is still a little miffed the Royals didn't do what you told us they would do, rip up his contract and give him something more appropriate for one of the greatest leaders of all time.

He strikes out a lot anyway. Open him up, change his swing plane and have him try to hit the ball 600 feet every AB. Maybe a different set up gets him a different look at pitches, and he could actually swing at something he could hit hard. Longshot I know, but staying the course isn't working.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 01:14 PM) The example really doesnt apply as Laroche is a very accomplished MLB player who had a bad year. He was never a failed AAAA player. Laroche is going to go one of two ways, he either his skills have eroded from age, or he will rebound from a bad year. I thought we were talking Garcia.

Gavin Floyd to me is the starter version of Jesse Crain. The setback is coming, but spring training fluff would make it seem like he could win 15. It wouldn't cost anything, so I wouldn't be surprised it happened, but would be very surprised anything really came of it.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 12:08 PM) 2013 Kepplinger Backup Catcher (when they were carrying 3) Jordan Danks Semien 2014 Semien Konerko Sierra Danks Backup Catcher (when they were carrying 3) I also disagree with the concern about using your backup catcher. If it's the 7th/8th/9th and and you are pinch hitting your DH, what's the risk? So your starting catcher gets hurt in the 2 innings or extra innings, you have to move your now DH to C and then your pitcher has to hit going forward? If you are already losing, why not create the problem? Then you would be stuck with Tyler Flowers hitting with no pinch hitter. I am sure if Soto struck out in the 8th and Flowers came up in the 9th with the tying run on 3rd and winning run at second, and hit, Ventura would be a fool. Again, he isn't unique not using catchers as DHs and PHs if there aren't 3 guys capable of catching on the roster.

Hahn and JR are pretty good at negotiating contracts. Better than most. They are going to have to go to somewhere unprecedented, but they knew this day would come. Hahn even said when they lost out on Tanaka that the money would be there for the right guy.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:51 AM) He doesn't platoon for the purpose of real platooning at all. so the only evidence i can provide is pinch hitting and pinch running. Evidence which is, predictably, ignored. Now the CW is that Soto with his .780 OPS against lefties is no good. Why wouldn't you play a 2nd catcher at another position? To protect against the slight chance that the starting catcher is injured? So you put yourself at a disadvantage game after game, to protect the one game where the starting catcher may get hurt? And the groupthink keeps rolling on. Wasn't Robin among the leaders in using pinch hitters? I think he was. According to Bill James his 118 pinch hitters was above average, and considering he doesn't have pitchers hitting, although I will give you he had some hitters hit like pitchers, that shows, that once again, your issues with Robbie are pure fiction.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:24 AM) You have yet to come up with one legitimate example where Robin failed to platoon correctly. And when he did platoon Trayce Thompson to what seemed like perfection, he was a fool for not throwing him to the wolves right away. Of course he was also a fool for throwing Rodon to the wolves right away.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 11:01 AM) The Heyward signing was thought to be the first domino, but I believe that the structure of his contract with the opt out slowed things down. These guys may be looking for a similar option...especially Upton because of his age. Also, as someone else mentioned, there aren't a ton of teams lining up to get these guys. There are probably only a half dozen teams that are really serious about them. I know we're all anxious for a signing, but it's looking more and more like we'll be waiting another week or so. I just hope that when the dust settles, the Sox will have signed one of the big three. There were big boys like the Cubs, Nationals and Angels in on Heyward, not so much on the others. It depresses their market. If a team offered any of them what was projected in November, they most likely would be signed right now.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) I'm still not quite getting how Heyward was a "steal" at nearly $200 million and this guy is too risky for $100 million. I don't think anyone thinks Heyward is a steal. I just don't know why some assume Cespedes will be the player he was during his walk year. This is a scenario we have seen played out time and time again. One reason I like Gordon more is I think the chances are better he doesn't have mediocre seasons even though he supposedly is older. But Cespedes had a couple of years in Oakland where he wasn't a guy you would want to give $120 million.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:29 AM) If orioles don't sign Davis cespedes will sign there. I doubt it. Angelos hates risks. He is pretty, pretty, risky.

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 10:16 AM) I agree, sending Avi to AAA would be a waste. I think he's either on our roster or we've traded him to acquire some sort of pitching. To overstate the obvious, Robocop Laroche is really the clog in the drain. I still think it would be worth it to basically buy him out and facilitate a trade to any team who is willing to take him on for 3 to 5 million. The lineup flexibility is worth it imo. If he was using the same approach and swing, yes it would be a waste. If they want to change some things up, it is worth a shot. Nelson Cruz was a failed AAAA player until he changed some things up and/or took some booster shots.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:58 AM) But it's also the most important position on the field. The majority of MLB managers spent at least part of their major or minor league careers at that position. Majority would be more than half. Another falsehood.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:57 AM) By WAR, those are the five best catchers in all of baseball since 2010. When you have players who are really good at baseball, the teams are more likely to be winning. It's not just about intangibles there, it's talent. Sometimes they play on bad teams as well. When teams win, the chemistry is great, the leaders are great. Yet those guys have played for and probably will play on bad teams again. Avila played on playoff teams , so did Navarro, yet, because they will be wearing a White Sox jersey, it doesn't count.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:52 AM) Alex Gordon on MLB says "I'm still hoping something works out" with Royals. John Smoltz says he thinks they find a way. https://twitter.com/JACKWHB?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw Hurry, delete all your posts about how it is better off for the Royals to let him go.

QUOTE (jasonxctf @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:40 AM) i remember yelling at the TV many times back in 2013/2014, in the 7th-9th inning's with a runner on 1st/2nd and Dunn being up. Opponent brings in a LOOGY, and Robin lets Dunn hit. (or last year with Laroche) What were the other options? That is the key. At least with those guys, there is a chance they could put one on the board. People gave Ozzie crap for putting Thome in the line up vs. Sabathia. He didn't hit him well, but took him deep a few times. The problem is, if you pinch hit with a weak hitter, and they either switch pitchers then or later in the game, you are going to have the same problem. With 4 guys on the bench and one being a catcher which every manager is reluctant to use, even in the NL with no DH, there aren't all these possibilities. It's a great theory, but actually being able to pull it off all the time isn't reasonable, and when your bench is short anyway, it makes it more unreasonable.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:19 AM) But we're nowhere there that point. As usual, you're jumping to conclusions based on nothing. He makes up conclusions. He told us JR would exercise Alexei's option because of his stupid loyalty. He told us the White Sox didn't make the playoffs in 2012 because they signed Adam Dunn instead of Victor Martinez. Of course Dunn hit 41 homers in 2012 and Martinez missed that season with an injury. He now is on a catcher needs to be a leader kick because of what kansascity.com tells him about Sal Perez. I mention Avila has been a playoff team catcher, he tells us that was in the past, but mentions Matt Weiters as a leader type catcher, and mentions how they were in the playoffs in 2014. He obviously forgets to tell you Weiters was injured and played 26 games. He is a clear troll.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 09:12 AM) Yeah, when you consistently make the wrong choices, like we have seen. Saying the only possible plan going forward is the Big 3 no longer feels realistic...so adjustments have to be made, otherwise Hahn and Sox fans will get left holding the bag and feel they've been sold a false bill of goods. At some point, contingency plans have to be acted on. LMAO. Your game is to try to determine what you believe to be the White Sox plan. Once you think you have it, you post endlessly about how the other way is THE way to go. The White Sox don't cost you any money or any time you don't want to give up. In fact, I am quite certain you enjoy when they suck. As far as I can tell, none of the top 3 OFs have signed, and it has been reported that if the Sox fail in their attempt to lure one, they will be adding an OF regardless. So now tell us how that is wrong.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 08:59 AM) Here's the way to add three guys and not lose a single pick...upgrading three weaknesses instead of just one. Latos or Fister is signed to a one year deal, then you wait until June to add Fowler or Desmond (in June) depending on how Saladino and the outfield situation is going... So essentially Latos/Fister vs. Erik Johnson/Danks and you buy insurance against injury and can attach a QO if they pitch well (which they're going to be more motivated to do on a one year deal, theoretically). Then you're looking at Parra getting most of the playing time in RF. Garcia would DH against lefties, with Shuck playing RF for Parra. If you want to spend more for a higher OPS, you go Span over Parra and still keep the draft pick. And you don't have to worry about long-term ramifications for signing any of the Big 3 to five year exploding contracts. Not to mention you have even more financial flexibility created next season. Weren't you the guy telling us signing the middle tier free agents was a terrible plan? Do you ever keep a goalpost in the same place?

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 08:52 AM) Well of course you do. Nothing like 3 years of non-competitive teams. He platooned Thompson to ease him in because he was a young player, not because he couldn't hit right handed pitching. Right handed Avi, not "proven veteran" Melky, was his primary platoon partner. Based on his use (or non-use ) of pinch hitters, moves such as pinch running for Abreu in close games in late innings (even when Abreu wasn't the lead runner), limited use of defensive replacements, it remains to be seen whether he can operate in this fashion. (thankfully, he cut back on the pinch running for Abreu stuff). Now the Sox haven't had a decent bench in years, so maybe with more options, we'd see more use. When your bench features Bonifacio, Leury Garcia, and the like, your platoon system isn't going to work. He did OK with JB Shuck. He did OK with Soto, of course if he used Soto as a DH and there was an injury and the pitcher had to hit, Don Ventura (Robbie) would be clueless again. I don't understand why you are complaining about failure. It is where all your ideas lead.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 31, 2015 -> 08:18 AM) I think it's a reasonable approach; I think Parra/Jackson would markedly improve this team....basically to the extent Alex Gordon would IF they platoon them properly (big if with the skills of this manager). 2 year deals would fit right with the Todd Frazier window. However, there is no way you can do this with Desmond, Chen, Gallardo or anyone with a QO. From the Sox perspective, 3 top 50 picks is a big chance to invigorate the farm. But from anyone's perspective, losing a nice draft choice for 1 year of a so-so player is not the way to go. If you are going to lose a draft choice, make it worthwhile. I always love the "if he was platooned correctly" line. Ventura platooned Trayce Thompson early to perfection, yet when he platooned him, people complained. He needs to be playing every day. Especially with the way bullpens are used today, if you platoon and yank a guy early, you are going to have a match up later where someone will call the manager a fool for not using players correctly. It was a lot easier when they had 15 or 16 position players on the roster. Now that it is 13 or sometimes even 12, the idea of being able to platoon all over the place is hogwash, especially when starting pitchers are making shorter appearances.