iamshack

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 06:13 PM) Because you trotted out the same thing during Cutler, did you not? You don't believe someone's hurt, and/or think they should be playing through it. It's the same situation. I never questioned whether Jay was injured. I did think he could have continued to play, or at the very least, not sit and pout about it on the sideline. I do question whether Tiger was actually injured. What the relevance of that is in this discussion, I'm still waiting to hear.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 05:20 PM) Why? I have no idea. All I know is that it's what both my eyes and the numbers see. He has been living off his reputation as a solid defensive 2b since 2011 and getting worse every single year. Injury? Out of shape? Lack of practice? poor positioning? no clue, but that's what has happened. Just wondering out loud...he is only 27...

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) Yeah, but there's an alternate who didn't get to play because Dufner decided to tee off before withdrawing. Some guy does that back in 1991 and we never hear of John Daly. Yeah, but I'm not that guy...and I respect Dufner's right to give it a shot. Kuchar withdrew and the alternate (John Huh) shot 78.

Why would Be ham's range be declining already?

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Gotta compare it to the Cutler situation. He's not hurt! He could have played! He quit! I'm with Jenks, I'm not buying it. And btw, this has nothing to do with football...what kind of comparison is that? You're comparing a team sport to an individual sport; whether a guy wants to play hurt or not has entirely different implications. Secondly, I'm not making an argument that he should have continued to play. He's a grown man playing for himself; he can do whatever he chooses. Jason Dufner withdrew after 8 holes today. I could care less. Reason he even bothered at all is because it's a major and he's the defending champ.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) Let's even assume he was hurt, but not badly, and still quit because he was playing poorly. So what? Why does that matter? He's not going to win, and if anything he's going to make it worse and then lose a shot at possibly playing in the PGA Championship this week. I don't understand why you think he's some terrible person or unprofessional or whatever for this. It makes zero sense to me. I never said he was a terrible person. I merely stated I didn't think he was actually injured, and therefore, it wasn't a bad decision to play this week.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 02:17 PM) Not suddenly out of the blue, no, I haven't. Not when he's played poorly this year in other tournaments. He had his worst major ever this year and he finished all four rounds. Why didn't he quit then? And refusal to take accountability? Really? He had a 2 year stretch in 2010 and 2011 when he was "bad." And this year hasn't been great. But he's still been dominant despite not winning majors. 1st or 2nd in the money list 4 out of the last 6 years. People are so delusional about how good/bad he is because of how mind-blowingly amazing he was the first ten years of his career. What's funny is I was a huge Tiger fan when he first came on tour, and then at some point I got bored with it and actually hated that other guys (Duval, Mickelson, Els, Singh, etc.) could never get much attention. I began to despise Tiger because of it. I started rooting against him. I even started to think he was way overrated. But now I think he's completely underrated. He's set the bar so high that expectations are out of control. Again, the dude is winning tournaments left and right the last couple of years and it's still not enough. He's "all over the place" and had a "huge fall from grace." GMAB. And who is reaching that conclusion? Faldo? That's who you're sticking with? Again, the guy who's sitting in a booth watching a TV? The guy who doesn't have a swing anywhere near as violent as Tiger's? You didn't watch it...I'm not going to argue with you anymore when you didn't even see it. Edit: And btw, we should discount Faldo's opinion because of those reasons but not yours?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 01:11 PM) But I still don't get how you leap to "fake injury." If anything those shots - which are very rare for him or any professional - are proof that he WAS suffering an injury that was screwing up his swing. Have you never seen an athlete fail to make a play and then all the sudden he's holding his leg, or knee, or whatever? It happens all the time in sports...it's a refusal to take accountability for an athletic failure and instead making an excuse for it- injury. As for Tiger, it was an incredibly convenient excuse. Look, the guy is all over the place right now. Between his personal issues, his game no longer being what it was, his quest to win more majors than Jack in jeopardy...it's really a huge fall from grace and he's still struggling to adjust to his new reality. I certainly am not the only person to reach the conclusion that he faked the injury, considering there were on-air personalities suggesting the same thing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 10:28 AM) Oh well the guy in the booth 500 yards away clearly knows what someone's insides feel like. Look, believe the conspiracy theory if you want. He wasn't even playing THAT bad. He made a couple bogies and a double and a bunch of pars before quitting. That's terrible for him, but not embarrassing. The only conspiracy theory is his own; that he actually hurt his back Believe me, if you would have been watching, you would have realized how poorly he was playing. The fact that he made par after ending up in the front of the fairway on a par 3 is one thing, but then the fact that he hit an iron shot from a bunch of trees into the beer tent and then an iron to about 8 feet, where he just left the par putt short was cracking up the broadcast team. If you look at the scorecard, that is one thing, but the way he was making those scores had people talking the entire week. Trust me, it was quite embarrassing.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) I'm not a big Tiger guy and I think you're nuts. He's coming off a back injury. He tweaked his back. It happens. Sometimes you can play through it, sometimes you can't. edit: i'm trying to find a video of him after that bunker shot. I recall watching that live and he gave a look after he got out of that bunker like something wasn't right. And from then on you could tell he was not comfortable. Nick Faldo analyzed that shot several times and went well out of his way to comment on how there was absolutely no evidence of him showing any pain whatsoever. I watched it several times. There wasn't.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) I'm not a big Tiger guy and I think you're nuts. He's coming off a back injury. He tweaked his back. It happens. Sometimes you can play through it, sometimes you can't. He said this "injury" was completely independent of the other back injury.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) Are you watching him play today? His shots are all over the place. There's no evidence of him ever quitting in the past. Why would he suddenly do it then? It makes no sense. He immediately grimaced after getting out of that bunker and continued to play until he couldn't take it anymore. He did the same thing earlier this year. His play today is a revelation compared with Sunday. And he certainly did not grimace when he got out of that bunker. Why would he suddenly quit? Because he was melting down; hes never done that on the golf course before.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 09:48 AM) Eh, the back is a complicated animal. It's entirely possible he just pinched a nerve or altered his spine ever so slightly to cause some discomfort. It doesn't mean he suffered a debilitating injury. Chiropractor and some shots and pain meds could have him ready to go. He's been hacking his way around golf courses for quite a while now, never really being the Tiger of old, so i'm not sure why he'd just quit because he wasn't playing up to his standards. Did you see some of the shots he was hitting? I've been watching Tiger my entire life and I've never seen him shank a 5-iron a 140 yards, or skull a ball out of a sand trap. He was melting down on live television and took the easy way out.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 09:41 AM) That's what I saw too. He was angry with how poorly he was playing, and was faking the injuries. Just seems to me if his back was in real pain, he would have stopped almost immediately. I don't care how gutsy and tough you are, you are always told that if you are suffering from back pain, you stop immediately. On the shot he supposedly injured himself he showed absolutely no sign of pain in his facial expressions or in his bodily movements. Nor in the shots immediately subsequent. Some of the shots he was attempting to play were not those of someone with a suffering back. He's just lost his confidence, and he was hitting shots of the like of you and I, and figured that was his easiest explanation for it. I wasn't surprised at all when he was miraculously feeling well enough to play this morning.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 09:37 AM) Tiger's got real guts; winning the U.S. Open on a near broken leg proved that, but playing the PGA after what happened last week just doesn't seem real smart. That is, if you believe he really injured himself. I believe he was embarrassed and faked the injury.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 09:05 PM) So the Red Sox didn't start David Ortiz tonight. In a tie game they get a single and a double to start the 9th in a 1-1 tie game at St Louis. With runners at 2nd and 3rd, and no one out, they PH Ortiz. I don't ever want to hear what an idiot Robin Ventura is again. Well it depends who he pinch hit for and who was coming up after the batter he pinch hit for.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 11:39 AM) Yep, let's hope he does before he suffers a major injury. The thing is, there was a video on the white sox website celebrating his catch against the fence the other night and it said something like "Walls? Adam Eaton doesn't care about Walls"

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 10:40 AM) Srs question -- if Sale only goes through 7, and we need to protect the lead in the 8th, do you go to Belisario or Dunn? I will say this...Robin should be able to at least manage a game wherein Sale is pitching...Now when anyone else is starting, I have really ceased complaining, but Sale, well, he's got to be able to find someone for at least an inning or two.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) Last year was the first that Markakis was below average offensively. He's always typically been a 105-115 wRC+ with a few other really good years chipped in, and the 88 he had last year is better than many people's worst. Rios, on the other hand, has ranged from 60 to 125, and he's been everywhere in between, plus he'll be 34 heading into next season. His slugging percentages have dropped off quite a bit, especially for the ballpark he plays in, but I suppose he has been more consistent in getting on base than I had originally thought. I'll be interested to see what Baltimore does with Markakis; he went from favorite son to forgotten son over the course of the past few years. I dunno, I'd be hesitant to make that kind of commitment to him.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 09:29 AM) The name that jumps out at me in the free agent market is Nick Markakis. He's got a $17.5 mutual option with a $2 mill buy out. I can't see any way he doesn't pick it up nor any way that Baltimore does pick it up. It seems to me that this regime has always really liked him and, while he's a little bit older, he'll only be 31 next year. You can likely sign him to a 3-4 year deal and be fairly certain he'll maintain his production. He's not a great defensive player, but there are plenty of guys who are worse out there. Either he or Garcia would have to move to LF, but that shouldn't be a major concern. The Oliver projections are not kind to him, but I don't think I'd pay much attention to that. He had a bad year last year and they were done prior to the season. I think you can reasonably expect him to be a solid bat in the middle to lower portion of the lineup, just a guy who can help keep the train moving. 3 year, $38 million with a team option for the 4th at $14 million with a $2 million buy out (structure it like $10/$12/$14/$2 or $14) with the standard incentives. Perhaps to persuade him you could make the team option vest after a certain number of plate appearances, but that's not a necessity. I thought we were looking for consistency here...

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 09:18 AM) No, I agree on Viciedo, but Rios hasn't been a beacon of consistency throughout his career either. I'd rather they look to acquire someone they know is good with an eye towards competing next year, but yeah, if they don't, I'd prefer Viciedo. Rios is nowhere near my radar though. Any ideas?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 09:04 AM) I could too, but I think Viciedo is a better risk to take than Rios. Ahh, I'm just tired of Viciedo. Of course, I've been tired of Viciedo for three years now. I suppose it depends on whether they plan on upgrading the pitching staff with a veteran starter, or if they are going to take another year to try and develop one. If the latter is the case, there is no point in displacing Viciedo. If they believe they can compete for the division/WC and want to move up the timetable a bit, then I think you've got to upgrade that position.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 08:31 AM) Yeah, maybe. Still, the guy is at 98 wRC+ this year thanks to his power disappearing. While that's way better than Viciedo, it's still not good, and so I'm not sure it's the best use of those funds. Yeah, that is a bit bizarre. Given the relative lack of availability of other options next year though, I could think of worse risks to take.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 08:21 AM) Viciedo unfortunately, but would Rios play LF without moping? If it meant his option was getting picked up, yeah, I would think he would.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2014 -> 08:12 AM) There's a lot I'd rather do with $12m next season than block Avisail Garcia. Who is going to play the other OF position?