iamshack

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 11:30 AM) The 90 golfer also doesn't play in more difficult courses set up for the PGA Tour in front of thousands of spectators like Ernie does. Given the need for Ernie to make both putts, I think the 50/50 split and 78 average sounds right though. Each time he has to pick the further ball on the green, then make both putts, that's a big difference there. Well this is on an average 6,500 yard course we're talking here...as the course length and setup becomes more difficult, the advantage goes to the professional. Edit: And I realize those statistics I cited would increase as a result of Ernie playing an easier course...but that goes to show you that pros aren't necessarily as automatic as we think...we tend to see the best shots from the best players in any given tournament, because that is what is relevant. They don't often show much else. But there is a lot of other shots happening out there from week to week.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) I'll go with 100 yards and in. If you can hack it up to a green in 2 or 3, the pro is going to be able to chip/pitch and one putt the majority of the time. Way more accurate than an amateur. Obviously it depends on the particular amateur, but on average, the better choice would be to allow the pro to get you to within 100 yards and then take over from there.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) I still don't think it matters. You're talking worst case he misses a few tough birdies and has to settle for par. The 90 score player still has difficulty getting the ball anywhere near the hole to make birdies and pars, even with two shots. And that second point is also big. Els has a 290 driving average. An average golfer is probably closer to 225-230. And he's a comfortable 6-7 iron from 200+ away. Huge advantage on long par 4's and par 5's. Ok...let's think it through... Let's take a look at some of Els' stats...Ernie is 181st on the PGA Tour in driving accuracy. He hits 53.52% of his drives in the fairway. So the odds of him hitting 2 balls in the fairway is slightly more than 1 in 4 (26.76 %). So on 3 out of every 4 holes basically, he's starting from the rough. Granted, he averages 290.9 yards a drive, but he's starting from the rough. Ernie hits 60.85 % of his greens in regulation. I'm fairly certain this % decreases when he is in the rough versus the fairway, but not assuming where his ball is, he is only going to hit the green in regulation on 6 out of every 10 shots. So the odds of him hitting the green with both balls are not great...he will do it about 30% of the time. When Ernie does miss the green, he is fairly decent...his average proximity he gets the ball to the hole from around the green is 6 feet 11 inches. If he was to hit it in the sand, his sand save % is just under 50. So the odds of doing that on two shots is about 25%. I don't have the exact percentage in front of me, but the average pro makes about 50% of his 8 footers. For 7 footers, it is undoubtedly higher, maybe 55%. To make two in a row, that number might be more like 27.5%. So you start to see how difficult it is for a pro to make a birdie....it is incredibly difficult...and it becomes fairly easy for him to make bogeys.

Another one for you...would the average amateur benefit more from having an average touring pro hit all his shots up to 100 yards short of the hole, or all his shots with less than 100 yards to the hole?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:08 AM) Putting is the X factor. Pro's gain a lot of shot on amateurs on the greens. Putting is huge in this hypothetical format, because the pro has to make BOTH putts, not just one. But pros actually gain more shots getting to the greens than they do on the greens (in real golf in relation to amateurs)

QUOTE (Jake @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:00 AM) The other thing about accelerating even when knowing it would cause the car to fishtail - was this a lesser of evils deal? It's hard to say whether Stewart's maneuver made him almost miss Ward instead of definitely hitting him (that is, did the move improve his chances of avoiding the accident even though it still occurred?) because we can't see Stewart's line. If Ward was basically smack dab in front of the car, maybe accelerating and swerving was the best he could do - maybe not. Especially when you see Ward literally start maneuvering to TRY and get close to Stewart. He literally starts juking and s*** to try and avoid cars and to get closer to Stewart.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) I would presume the worst shot, more often then not, would be his first shot. Give a pro two chances and they are going to do even more damage. However, a pro on his worst shot will still be a very good golfer. A guy shooting 90 (which is probably my average) is not getting into the 70's with a 2nd shot on a regular basis and I wouldn't expect Els to shoot much lower then normal. What would you guess an average tour pro's fairways hit % is? Greens in regulation? Sand saves?

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 08:52 AM) Ernie Els and I don't think it's that close. A 90 golfer, roughly bogey golf, is still inconsistent. You can give him two shots and he's likely to still mess up. At best you're looking at something like a 10 stroke improvement. At best. Els is going to shoot around par with only one shot. I figure that's the worst case scenario because a 2nd shot he'll adjust and get it "right." Even if he does do worse a second time, maybe he's 3-4 shots worse than normal. So again, something in the 72-75 range. Remember, he has to play the worst of his two shots every time...

Ok, so they would each win about half the time. Average score of about 78.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 13, 2014 -> 08:40 AM) I would say Els. A professionals worst shot is going to be better than a 18 handicapper's best shot 95% of the time. They will be much more consistent and accurate. A guy like Els will see very little difference between his two attempts. Remember, a guy who shoots 90 on average is not an 18...he's likely a 11-12 or so...handicap is more a measure of a golfers better rounds, not his average score.

Ok, so two golfers...on an average, 6,500 yard course....one golfer shoots about 90 on average, the other golfer is Ernie Els. Each golfer gets to hit two balls on every shot, including putts. The 90 golfer gets to play his best ball every time. Ernie Els has to hit his worst ball every time. Who shoots the better score?

How has he been doing down in Charlotte?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 07:29 PM) Lol, yea that terrible slide at home was fun to watch It doesn't help that the bat was left right in his path.

There were several cars that passed him (perhaps 5) after he exited his car. As he tried to track down Stewart's car, he started crossing from the outside of the track to the inside of the track. He started out walking and then increased his pace, at one point making sort of a juke move as he attempted to get as close to Tony Stewart's path while avoiding a blue car. At that point, it's hard to tell which way to go to avoid him. At first a driver could go low and avoid him. But now he's in the middle and literally trying to aim a path towards Stewart. It's really difficult without seeing a wider frame to determine what Stewart was doing. My guess is he was trying to scare the guy. But you can only guess - you can't know with any level of certainty from this video- what his true intentions were.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 05:20 PM) How ever many were on the track during the caution. I didn't see the beginning of the race so i don't know how many were in the race. They all had to go by him. ? How do you figure?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) But the key is barely. Everyone else except the guy involved in the confrontation was able to miss him. Granted this is why nothing can be proven and why there will be no criminal charges however, in the racing world everyone knows what happened. How many is "everyone else"? One?

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) Yea, but this is Allen Craig. Last year it was the same thing and the Cardinals didn't have him for the last two months of the year and barely in the playoffs, and a dh in the World Series because he couldn't play the field. The guy can hit. The guy cannot stay healthy. We'll see...it obviously would have depended on the price.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 01:56 PM) Want to know why? he lasted all of a week before he was put on the DL by boston Yeah, but they knew he was injured before making the trade...they don't care about this year....they are hoping they can get him healthy for next year...the same kind of timing the Sox should be looking at.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 01:44 PM) Who says it has to be Hamels? Can't it also be a Papelbon return to Boston? Doubtful that the Phillies would be heavily scouting the Red Sox if it was for Papelbon...it has to be someone who would actually demand a return.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 01:18 PM) You probably see a lot of pros in Vegas. Tiger still has a place there. I caddied on the Nike tour for one tournament. I was constantly scared of screwing somethign up. But at least the pro made the cut and I got a little money for my trouble. Cool way to kill a week during summer break. Yeah, Rickie Fowler used to live on our course...but I mean in terms of regulars...Moore and Inbee Park are both members regulars there. I caddied when I was about 13-16. It was a great job at that age. Obviously it's a little different when you're caddying for a tour player, but certainly not rocket science. It would be pretty awesome to be on the bag of one of the better players.

I see Ryan Moore all the time at my course...maybe I'll tell him if he ever needs a pro jock...

I didn't know they were back together...no wonder he is injured and pitching like s***

QUOTE (Tmar @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:26 AM) You don't really needed to accelerate to get away from the confrontation, he is in a car, in less than a second he will be yards past him and the confrontation can't escalate. If the kid had a rocket launcher, then yeah accelerate to get away but otherwise there is no valid need that I can think of Well accelerating allows you to regain some control of the vehicle. If he was sliding right already, he may have tried to accelerate to move past him instead of sliding directly into him (obviously this didn't work out too well). Think about if you've ever been sliding on snow or mud towards a parked car or other object. Accelerating allows you to potentially move past it by adjusting your line, instead of sliding directly into it.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) "What happens when you hit that throttle is the car is going to move to the right . . . Stewart had to know that if he hit the throttle with a man standing on the dirt to his right, there was a good chance the car would hit him, which means there's a good chance he could be killed," Becker said Fox Sports 1. It's obvious you have a pretty clear agenda here...we get it...you think Stewart is at fault.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Aug 12, 2014 -> 10:20 AM) If Stewart is really worth as much money as it seems, wouldn't it make the most sense to him for an out of court settlement? Give the family a few million and not let them talk about it anymore. Even if a civil court found him 100% not liable, he will have a negative light shined upon him from the public court of opinion, so a settlement wouldn't make things worse. Yeah, possibly...although the racing circuits might have something to say about it...they don't want to go down the road of having suits like this filed because it damages their sport.