iamshack

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 05:19 PM) Sale looks super pissed off Porter squeezing him a bit...he threw about 5 strikes to ARod

Yes!!

And we're off!

QUOTE (ptatc @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 04:55 PM) I still disagree. Pitching is still the most important piece and it's difficult to come by young, reasonably priced, top of the rotation starters. Unless the deal includes another young top of the rotation type prospect, the organization would be taking a major step backwards. I understand. Assuming we're going to continue sucking for a few more years though, we should be in a solid draft position and we'd certainly have money to spend.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 04:33 PM) Over the last month, I've changed my mind and believe Sale should be available in a trade, but only for a return that's too good to pass up. If you can get two starting position players for the future and a starting pitcher, that would be more useful to the organization. You and I are of similar minds on this. There is just so little hope I see of actually putting quality young position players on the field otherwise in any short timeframe.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:59 PM) Maybe...depends on whether what they got back actually worked out and did so in a reasonable amount of time. Worth considering though...the reason why that makes sense in hindsight is that his production fell off a cliff. If people are expecting something similar to happen to Sale then yes he should be dealt, but that's the only reason anyone gives that gets most people agreeing...if the team thinks he can't stay healthy then yes he should be on the trading block. The fact that "Everyone other than Konerko and Sale" were supposed to be on the trading block this deadline according to press reports suggests to me that the team doesn't think he'll have these problems. Ditto the extension. Do you think anyone expected Lincecum's career to go down this path? I'm not trying to suggest that that would happen to Sale, just that you never know what might happen. And given the fragile nature of Sale's frame and his violent delivery (I dunno if I am articulating that quite right), you just know that everyone is going to say "I told you so" if Sale does sustain a serious injury. I guess it just goes to show that the SF model is also fraught with risk, especially given that it weighs so heavily on a few very important guys. I guess I'd like to see them actually build a young, exciting team all-around, and I see trading Sale as the quickest, best way to do so.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 03:16 PM) If you trade Sale, that really awesome staff is way less awesome. It's already taken a hit with the loss of Peavy. I don't think you can afford to trade Sale unless you're committing to a scorched-Earth rebuild. What is that awesome staff doing for us now?

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:43 PM) Trading Sale will never happen anytime soon, as no team will give up the theoretical value it would take to get him. And I personally think trading him is the dumbest idea ever UNLESS you are certain he will break down in the near future. Otherwise, you would simply be gambling on unproven prospects using one of the most valuable players in baseball. The potential payoff if you hit on all the prospects is just not worth the risk you miss on them all, which is incredibly more likely. Hah...I don't think anyone is qualified to say whether Chris will certainly break down in the near future, other than maybe Chris. That being the case, again, I absolutely agree it would be a risk-filled transaction.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:42 PM) You want nationally recognizable players and your idea is to trade Chris Sale for prospects?? Yes, everyday players.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:30 PM) For a counterpoint, let's look at San Francisco. They have won 2 world series now on the strength of their top front line starting pitching with "barely enough to be adequate" offense. They had to switch one of those starters from Lincecum to Bumgarner, and they've gotten a big contribution from their catcher...but that is a team with 2 world series in what, 4 years, keyed entirely by having a top of the line pair of starters leading their rotation. Let's hypothetically say the Sox added Rondon to Sale at the top of that rotation. Now we're talking about a legitimately dominant possible pitching staff. The kind of pitching staff that on its own wins world series trophies, plural. Absolutely...but let's face it, is it not pretty clear now that winning a WS takes a LOT of different things coming together than just what you would think is a few frontline SP's? I'm not sure SF's model is one that can be replicated in the AL, and I am not sure it should even be attempted to be replicated in the NL. Not saying that having outstanding pitching talent isn't a good thing; just that I'm not sure SF's success is predicated on having "two frontline starters" or moreso having a s***load of very good pitching in general. We have the potential to have the latter. What if the Giants had traded Lincecum prior to the 2012 season? Would they have still won in 2012? Would they be winning in 2013?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) Sale doesn't go unless you don't expect to competitive for years. I bet Santiago/Quintana would fetch more than you'd think in the offseason. Pitching market will be just as thin as it was at this year's deadline, and we're talking about pre-arbitration guys now. I don't expect to be competitive for at least 2-3 years. Not saying it couldn't happen, but not expecting it. What do you think would bring more excitement to this team? A few very good, exciting, young and nationally recognizable position players, or Chris Sale? Again, if we didn't seem to have a surplus of pitching I would understand, but we do...to go along with a dearth of position player talent.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:19 PM) To move Sale, I am asking for Bogaerts, Bradley, Ranaudo, Webster, and Cecchini. Even then, I'm taking my sweet ass time making the deal. I understand the WAR thing...I'm not sure people use it correctly on this site all the time, but I get it. But do you think that having 2-3 very good young position players added to our mix would be a net positive, even if Chris continues down his current path of awesomeness?

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 02:07 PM) I would only move Sale for 2 young, MLB all-stars (or close to that level) + 'spects. He's a 24 year old Ace with a good contract and hasn't been injured yet. He's already been worth 5 WAR this year, that's crazy for a 24 yr old. I know I have mentioned this a few times, and I don't mean to harp on it...but that is exactly what we need. You're not going to get full value for Q or Santiago...Q doesn't have the stuff factor and Code Red is still a work in progress. They are worth more to the White Sox than in trade. Sale, on the other hand, I believe is worth more in trade. We have a lot of SP right now. Sale is a luxury, and a luxury we don't have any business having given the state of the offense and the position players in general. If Boston offered you Bogaerts and Bradley, along with a few of their other young pieces, would you consider that? Edit: I suppose I'd want some quality "other young pieces," but the biggest two pieces would be the aforementioned.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 01:56 PM) 1) "Blood of his penis" has to confuse people who weren't around for that joke. 2) Santiago? 3) I would not. Yeah, sorry...I meant Code Red

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 01:52 PM) I think he means that it would be a need-based swap, a la Pineda/Montero deal, but with more established players obviously. I actually think Quintana is an extension candidate. It's amazing that right when we lose Buehrle to FA, Quintana steps in and basically clones himself (from the blood of his penis, obviously) as the second coming of Mark. I think Q is a piece to build around as well. Code Red, I'm not sold on quite yet, but promising. Sale, I would move.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 11:40 AM) If all you do is complain about what you read here, why the hell do you keep coming back here? A few things to add: Not only does he continue coming back here when he clearly doesn't value the information here, but then he compounds that by wasting more time to post his complaints about it! Shows you how valuable his time is.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 09:17 AM) Exactly, which further adds to our collective frustration (save Balta, of course, he believes in everyone who may someday wear the Pale Hose and is a true saint and true fan). I don't think he truly believes that. He's just trying to highlight the hypocrisy in many of the fans asking for a rebuild, while at the same time being impatient with the development of our prospects.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:20 AM) Correct and logically the taller you are the longer your reach is. And I don't see how anyone can state that having a longer reach doesn't make a noticeable difference. . How often do we see a 1st baseman jump losing cotact with the bag and the runner safe ? . How often do we see a 1st baseman stretch towards the incoming throw barely catching it before the runner touches the base ? How bout throws off to the side ? How about catching the low throw before it hits the dirt because of that reach ? How many extra bases will runners advance because the shorter guy cant reach the ball and it becomes a wild throw ? This should be common sense to people .If having a taller guy gets you 10 extra outs a year I'll take the taller guy. Not getting outs when you could leads to big innings and adds runs to the other team . Big innings lead to loses . Any loss can be the difference in making the playoffs and having a chance to win it all. Any advantage is a good advantage. Well, I dunno...all I care about is who is able to make the most plays. Many times that may be the taller player, but maybe the more athletic guy is better at digging balls out or moves laterally better. I honestly don't know, but I don't think the player's range (wingspan) should be the sole consideration.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:54 AM) And Dayan Viciedo sucks royal balls. And regular heathen balls too.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:51 AM) My only point was simply that Balta's stance that anyone who thinks a White Sox prospect sucks while evaluating all data on hand is a silly position to take. It's not like we're cutting down grade-A prospect talent, here. He's been making this point for the entire season now. It's a valid one, but not in every case he uses it.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:35 AM) Hell, Garcia has exactly as long of a track record of solid performance in AAA as Phegley does, this season. Yeah he's younger but he also has a long list of people already saying that his approach probably won't work and he swings at too many pitches out of the zone. We've actually had good discussion on that, probably because you haven't seen his approach for a month in order to declare that "Avisail Garcia sucks!" yet. I understand that patience is required when evaluating young players. That doesn't mean that observations made prior to 1000 MLB PAs are useless, however. Sometimes it's just painfully obvious that some guys are not going to cut it. I'm not saying anything in regards to Phegley or Garcia. Just generally.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:35 AM) I wonder how much Melky Cabrera bombing this year will hurt Nelson Cruz. I dunno...but if it is fair to assume he hasn't been using this year (and maybe it's not), he's hit 27 home runs...seems to me the guy can hit pretty well when he is clean.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2013 -> 07:30 AM) Agreed. Unless they were willing to stand behind him, he really had no reason to not appeal. Especially considering he can rejoin the team for the Postseason if they make it. Say they somehow find their way into the playoffs, he comes back, actually performs well...he'll get a pretty good deal and have this all behind him as opposed to going through the appeals process and having this all hanging over his head next year.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Aug 5, 2013 -> 06:42 PM) Out of curiosity, who do you think would block Texas? Well it depends what the exact order ends up being when he's placed on waivers. Could be Cleveland, Baltimore, or especially Kansas City.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 5, 2013 -> 06:05 PM) Um....good? Yeah, I meant not good for Texas. Although I'm still in the keep these two around camp unless you actually can get something of value.