iamshack

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 26, 2011 -> 05:11 AM) Perfect sense. Soriano in LF. Dunn in RF. LMAO. What you're asking people to do is irrelevant. The question is not could Dunn be moved on April 26th. The question is could he be moved at the trade deadline. All sorts of things could happen between now and then.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 11:42 PM) Ha flip out? The worst I said was that some ones argument was absurdly idiotic (or something to that effect), and that was mainly just frustration. And its impossible to try and address everyone when posts are coming that quickly, so I get lazy. Im not getting paid for this, so Ill do what I want haha If you say so, Badge

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 11:16 PM) I have no problem with blow back. I just get annoyed when my point isnt coming across clearly and then I end up having to try and respond to several points at once, which I then get lazy and just blur everything together, which makes it even less coherent. But then I stop caring because its just a message board argument and I know at minimum I wont say anything to bury myself. Not to mention the game was going on and I was just hoping that Ozzie didnt some how find a way to snatch defeat from victory again. As for Santos compared to Soria. Im not saying Santos should never go 4,5 or 6 outs, Im just saying today, his first save at yankee stadium while the Sox are really struggling, is not the day I give him a difficult save. Maybe after he has 5-10 saves I start to give him a longer rope, but today, I give him every chance to succeed. But you do, because you start flipping out and getting all upset that people aren't agreeing with you. And it might help if you replied to individual posts, so we know who the heck you mean to respond to.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 10:05 PM) Not expecting anyone to agree with me at all. Had an annoying day, and instead of my normal "Im not going to get involved" attitude, I decided that I was going to say what I felt. It happens once every 5 years, I stopped getting involved a long time ago, and for the most part I stick with that, but every once in a while a brief moment in time happens where I just cant stop myself. As for the second part, of course. Even a ball boy arguably has more contact with the White Sox than an average fan on a message board. But that doesnt mean that I as an average fan on a message board, dont have the right to make a logical argument about why that manager may have made a bad decision. Otherwise, why have the message board. If I just wanted to congratulate myself on my own brilliance Id start a blog or become a sports journalist (zing haha). I absolutely respect your right to your opinion. I just think when that opinion includes calling the opinions of others "incredibly dumb," you've got to expect to catch some blowback. As for your complaints about Ozzie's lack of a plan, I think you're probably right. He's trying to keep a sinking ship afloat. He's probably ignoring the long-term implications of some things in favor of the short-term necessity to win ball games. As ss2k has said, I think it's hard to criticize any plan at this point when just about everyone he's handed the ball to has s*** the field.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:36 PM) I said his argument was dumb, and most of that was because the poster doesnt seem to understand my argument, which makes his argument back make no sense to me. Once we realized that neither of us are on the same page, it hasnt been a thing. It has nothing to do with Ozzie, Santos or anything other than what I have seen in my life. I feel that I have seen players get messed up due to blown save situations, and after watching Thornton fail so hard, I just would be extra cautious with Santos. I stand by what I said, Ozzie shouldnt have put Santos in during the 8th if he planned to use him as the closer in the 9th. I would not have done it. The Sox won, Im glad to be wrong, I just think that we need to have a much better plan in the future. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And that's your opinion. We get that. You're arguing it as if you expect everyone to agree with you, which seems highly unlikely given the responses you've been getting. Additionally, one would think you would take into account the fact that Ozzie knows these players far more than you do, so he maybe, just might be able to determine who can handle what and who cannot a bit more than you or I.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:23 PM) I have a right to my opinion, if you arent going to post on a message board and give your opinion, you have no worth on a message board (imo). Id rather read people who are completely wrong, but at least think for themselves, than people who just repeat what the manager says or what players say in interviews. As for a players mental state, Im not sure where I actually even mentioned that. I merely stated that if I (key word I) was running the Sox, I would have saved Santos for the 9th and used match ups in the 8th (or more than likely just told Sale to strike out Jones). Not sure where you are going here, itd be one thing if I constantly harped on the Sox or Ozzie, but this is one of the few times that I have ever been this outspokenly negative. You're calling other people's opinions "incredibly dumb." You didn't expect to catch some s*** blowing back in the wind for saying that? You have mentioned about 5 times that you are concerned about Sergio being hurt or ruined if he would have failed. I was assuming you meant mentally and not physically.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:13 PM) Because he entirely miss used this pen from the start, and sent it in a tail spin. He consistently puts players in positions to fail instead of making their lives easier. When you watch other managers use a pen its just night and day, and im tired of giving Ozzie a path because he brings other qualities that got the Sox a WS in 2005. Hes really going to have to do something to change my mind at this point, because Ive given him a pass forever. I love it when people on the sidelines are absolutely convinced that THEY are the ones that know what should have been done. No matter that they aren't in that clubhouse, they don't hear what the players say, they don't see anything that happens behind the scenes. I have absolutely no problem with people criticizing moves. But when it comes to players' mental state, I am very, very hesitant to criticize, because you just don't know.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 09:00 PM) My beef is bringing in Santos in the 8th if he will close in the 9th. How is that hard to understand? (To make this extremely clear) I want Santos to be the closer, thus I want him to be treated like a closer and come in the 9th. I wanted his first attempt at closing to be an easy save so he didnt get screwed in the head about it. Its pretty damn simple, I love Santos he should be the closer. I was extremely worried Ozzie would use Thonrton so in the game thread I was prepping myself for it once Santos came in Badge, you don't know Sergio Santos. Ozzie does. So don't try to judge his mental state, or tell us what he can or cannot handle. I think Ozzie probably has a little better idea of what the kid is capable of than you. We all understand you would have preferred SS get handled a little more delicately for his first save opportunity.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 08:55 PM) No but Im not sure how people can just say Santos first save being a 4 out save in Yankee stadium was an amazing decision. If Santos is your closer you bring him in the 9th, and use match ups in the 8th. The 4 out save worked today, but that is not a strategy I want to see the rest of the season. Next thing its 5 outs then its 6, you just arent going to get away with that forever. Use match ups in the 7th and 8th, closer in the 9th. Im really not sure why what im saying is so groundbreaking, most teams always do this. You're just trying to justify your opinion because in the game thread you said there was no way Santos was coming back for the 9th. You were wrong. It happens to all of us. This is not worth getting all worked up about.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 08:54 PM) And to repeat again... We have NO ONE who has been a closer before. ANYONE who you put into that situation is going to be new at it. Whether that is Matt, Serg, Jesse, or Will Ohman. Let's not overthink the situation...Ozzie is going to go with whomever looks like he can get outs right now. I'm sure he asked Sergio if he was cool with going out in the 9th, he said yo, you know it, and that was that. This wasn't about trying to protect this guy, or not hurt this guy's feelings...this was about trying to get a win no matter how it had to be done, for the team and secondly for Humber.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Apr 25, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) Argue what you want, youll just never convince me that leaving Sale against Jones or having Chavez against a lefty with Santos pitching the 9th wasnt a better decision. Santos did the job, but if that game was such a major game, Ozzie put it on the back of some one who has never done that before. Dude, are you drunk?

While it's great for the Angels that Trout is demolishing minor league pitching right now, unless they plan to cash in early and trade him for proven talent, he's really not affecting their big league club in any significant way right now. While it's certainly good when a draft pick performs well in the minor leagues, until they trade him for proven talent or he begins producing on a mlb field, they haven't gained much. Brandon Wood, anyone? Dallas McPherson? Let's not start proclaiming anyone a winner until the draft picks actually start impacting the MLB team in some way.

All kinds of teams that expect to be competitive leave room in their budget to make additions at the trade deadline. Any team looking to acquire Dunn would most likely not need to have $14 million in cash to deliver to him in a suitcase immediately. Most likely, they would take on about $5-6 million this year, which might have been left open in the budget, or resulted in an increase in ticket sales, or borrowed from another budget, etc. Yes, they would be required to pay Adam Dunn some $42 million over the next 3 years as well, but they very well have room for that in their budget because they haven't committed much in terms of payroll over the time period. And yes, the White Sox might even be required to throw in some money, but if it means getting out from a contract that is no longer seen as prudent within the makeup of the roster or direction the organization wishes to go in over the next three years, than it would indeed make sense rather than pay a player when the team would most likely not be competitive. I understand what you are saying in many of these posts. But you seem to take an incredibly simplistic view of the finances of a major league baseball team, especially considering some of the things organizations have done in recent years (including the one you are a fan of). And instead of realizing that the resources and assets of MLB teams are often very complex, you choose to view payroll budgets as some giant piggy bank which is broken open at the beginning of every season. For someone who claims to be an accountant, I just find the fact that you have that viewpoint incredibly unreasonsable, and difficult to comprehend.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 10:24 PM) I agree wholeheartedly with that second paragraph. In regards to the first, I'm pretty sure that's his thing. He'll have stretches of being great, and then he'll have a bunch of games where he only pitches 5 innings and gives up 5 runs. He's got a little bit of Jose Contreras is him, that's for sure...

It appears that Daisuke Matsuzaka has figured some s*** out in the past week or so...has a 15 inning scoreless streak going. Additionally, they really have to do something about the situation where a closer blows the save, then his team retakes the lead and he becomes the pitcher of record and picks up the win. He should be automatically disqualified from picking up the win if he blew the game in the first place.

Tyson Chandler gets called for a foul basically any time he engages another player defensively. I don't know how he didn't lose his s*** during the game today.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I respect Balta, he usually is a great poster, but when it comes to someone saying the minors has an effect on the major league roster he just doesn't see it. Every single time he will post some response like that. While in this particular instance I disagree with him, I think he has a point. Almost everyone here seems to believe that there is no downside to dumping money and time/patience into player development. As if it's just a simple matter of the more you invest, the better the return. That simply is not the case, and yet no one seems willing to discuss it. There are all kinds of pitfalls involved in spending big dollars on high-profile prospects, whether they be a high attrtition rate, trying to determine which players to hold on to and which to move, the time spent trying to develop these players, including the opportunity costs involved, etc. It simply is not an open and shut case. While no one would argue that having a farm system full of elite talent is a bad thing, it's not just a matter of spending the money = elite, cost-controlled talent all across the diamond on your parent club. Now I do agree with what Fathom pointed out, and I think the Red Sox are probably the best example of that philosophy. They're willing to trade just about any player in their system for proven talent. When they do bring up a homegrown player to the parent club, it's usually because there were no better options, not because they had some grand plan for that player. I really wish we would pay over slot so we could more closely emulate that philosophy, not so I could watch Gordon Beckham alternate between the next Chase Utley and the next Bobby Hill.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:19 PM) And it's brought them incredible success. It has brought the Red Sox and Yankees success. And keep your eye on KC...it's about to start paying off down the road. It is the only real chance they have to succeed. I'm not arguing that it is the ONLY reason the Sox do not have a strong development program. But I think it would certainly help us since we do not often have a very strong draft position. Edit: Oh, and by the way, it may be the very reason Detroit has Miggy Cabrera.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:18 PM) Absolutely, meanwhile KC and Detroit stack up their farm systems by going way over slot. Hell, even Pittsburgh realized it can't compete by following the slot guidelines anymore.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 09:41 AM) The Sox are only in it every year because they have the most resources in the division (their payroll). It really has nothing to do with KW; it's actually the opposite. KW is the reason we have this ceiling where we are in it almost every year, but not winning it. For all the good trades KW has made, he and this organization has drafted horrendously and developed players horrifically. The Sox will never be a consistent winner with KW because the Sox don't draft and develop. Unless you can spend like the Yankees and Red Sox, you need to draft and develop well. And actually the Sawks and Yankees do draft and develop well. It's also boggles my mind that the Sox are willing to spend so much on payroll yet they consistently neglect spending on foreign free agents and the draft. I don't know why this isn't addressed more often, but a big problem with the drafting and development, at least in my opinion, seems to be Reinsdorf's relationship with Selig. JR seems to instruct our Player Development department to follow Selig's "slot system," whereas teams that you mentioned do not. They pay over slot money to compensate for their poor draft position and thus get players they have no business getting at their position in the draft. Meanwhile, we take the guy that is willing to sign for slot money, and in the instances we do take a guy that is a signability risk, we don't seem to ever get him signed. I feel like we could vastly improve our drafting if we were willing to tell Bud that we can't continue to play by these "guidelines" if we continue to see the rich get richer by ignoring them.

QUOTE (fathom @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 07:52 PM) Lillibridge, Teahen and Vizquel will be in the lineup tomorrow. At this point, who's to say that is even bad?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 06:29 PM) Yeah, they'll win next round. I'd be very surprised if the Bulls were to beat Boston or Miami in the Conference Finals though to be honest after watching these 4 games. This team needs better perimeter shooting, and more specifically, a 2 guard who can create for himself. Such things can be found, and I could see the Bulls winning title(s) if they do. But not right now, there are a lot of weaknesses on this team offensively that the process of being exposed has already begun on. I'll bet you a coupla hundred on that...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 06:13 PM) I'm not asking what other teams could possibly use him, I'm just asking you to name one that you could make a reasonable assumption would willing to add his contract right now. Not many teams admit they left at least $14 million in the bank before the season started. Here you go with this ridiculous payroll bulls*** again. How can you possibly believe that this is how MLB teams operate? You act as if they have to pay the guy his entire salary up front or something. Jesus, just let it f***ing die already.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 07:25 AM) If iamshack were a GM, he'd be one of KW's 5 favs on his cellphone. Hah, maybe so..but that's only because I am cool as s***... Dick, I am not trying to be a homer, but if you look at the desperation that occurs most years at the deadline, I think you'd be a little more open-minded about this. Any starting pitcher that is still breathing is going to draw interest. An elite lefthanded bp arm is going to draw a ton of interest. A solid bat with a track record is going to draw interest. If the White Sox were to put up two or three solid young arms, some big bats, and some bp arms, I think there would be quite a few very-well thought of prospects heading our way. You can call me biased all you want, but just look at the history of the trade deadline.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 23, 2011 -> 06:02 AM) Jackson and Buehrle make a lot of money and are free agents at the end of the year. You aren't going to get much for them. Thornton hasn't been very good and just signed a decent sized extension, as my post stated if he doesn't turn it around, good luck getting anything for him. Konerko has full no trade protection and the teams he would play for the Angels, Dodgers, DBacks and possibly Padres can't or won't or don't have room to take his contract. You think someone wants Dunn's contract and is willing to give you prospects in exchange? Again, good luck with that. And besides if the Sox traded Dunn, Jackson, Buerhle, Thornton, Konerko, Danks, Floyd and Quentin and got the 5 high upside prospects and 10-15 other prospects you suggest, I would say 5 years is minimum until they are .500, possibly longer. Tropicana Field will look like Wrigley Field in the middle of July compared to USCF. The crying poor from 35th and Shields would actually be legit. I forgot about Mark's contract kicker, so that could be a problem. If Jackson posts a 3.5 ERA and the acquiring team only has to pay him $4 million or so, yes, I think you'd get a very solid prospect in return. Dunn has a heck of a track record and I don't think his contract would provide much of a barrier, but yeah, you might have to hold on to him for a year or so and then deal him. Thornton has been one of the best setup men in the league for a few years now. I don't think the contract extension really would scare many teams away. Danks/Floyd/Quentin would probably be the biggest draws, and I think the haul would be pretty decent, along with Jackson.