iamshack

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 12:55 PM) There are still concerns about his body, and would you want to give a guy a boatful of money when the only time he gets in shape is during the year his contract is up? That's absolutely exaggerating the issue. He put up huge seasons in 05' and 06' and still was one of the best defensive cf's in baseball. Say what you want about his body, but the guy has been a very solid player throughout his career. Should we not want MCab if all we are concerned about is a player's body?

Does anyone have a clue as to what a realistic offer to Jones is? I've read that the Nationals were the only team interested im him, although that will undoubtedly change now that Hunter is signed. Anyone have any guesses?

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 12:02 PM) You lost me at this point. He is a horrible writer. Facts do not matter to him. He exsists on hyperbole and exaggeration. He often contradicts himself within the same article, if not at other times on the exact same subject. He without a doubt the worst writer in Chicago, bar none. Well I disagree with you about that. I think he is a very talented writer, but that his position as a columnist for a newspaper that mandates he write columns to "sell papers" forces him to take positions designed simply to attract attention. When he covers certain other topics, usually something non-Chicago related, he writes with skill and uncommon thoughtfulness. However, the hot water he has gotten himself into with representatives of Chicago sports organizations has caused him to lash out at them via his column. Thus, he is often taking positions which are repetitive, ridiculous, and inaccurate. Anytime one is forced to argue such positions, one will be forced to exist on hyperbole and exaggeration. One will often contradict himself, due to the ridiculousness of the position taken. One will often seem like a fool. However, Mariotti is not a fool; he's quite intelligent, actually. But he's also immature, vindictive, and arrogant. Those latter qualities are what ruin his columns, especially those regarding the White Sox organization.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Nov 23, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) Mariotti will do whatever it takes to make a good situation look bad, and a bad situation look worse. Its his life mission against the Sox, and its disgusting that he makes a good living off of it. Agreed. Mariotti is generally a good writer, however, I just don't believe he is a very good columnist in regards to Chicago sports. He has a fundamental misunderstanding about the baseball industry as a whole; while the industry is flush with money, it is not so flush that all teams can operate with the reactionary philosophy he seems to personally hold. Couple that with his ridiculous level of bias against the White Sox as an organization, and his articles are simply vindictive and repetitive rants. I am shocked he continues to be allowed to even cover the White Sox, given how his attitude concerning the current regime eliminates all possibilities of him commenting responsibly or accurately on their state of affairs.

QUOTE(WHITESOXRANDY @ Nov 22, 2007 -> 12:08 PM) I think it sounds better than "he s*** his pants in 26 out of 30 opportunities to do so". We didn't sign him to close for us. Why not list his career era or something? It's not like there aren't multiple ways to spin his numbers, despite their downward trending.

Funny caption under Linebrink's picture on whitesox.com. "In his eight-year career, Scott Linebrink has converted four saves in 30 opportunities." Way to spin it for the Sox fans, intern!

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 09:36 PM) Jones was the CF version of Juan Uribe in 2007. Fat, didn't get on base much. Struck out often. I'm amazed anyone would want to deal with Boras and give this guy 8 figures, plus the new league is another good point. Did you actually see Jones play in 07'? Because he was in the best shape he has been in in several years. He worked out like a madman at Boras' request getting in good shape for his FA season. While this seemed to improve his defense, many believe it may have been part of why he had such a down year at the plate. His poor FA season had absolutely nothing to do with him being overweight. In fact, perhaps the fact that he lost weight had something to do with his performance at the dish...

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 07:49 PM) Not sure why Andruw Jones is on White Sox fans conciousness as his agent is Boras. That hasn't stopped KW from trying to acquire him in the past via trade. Now certainly that is not the same as trying to sign a Boras client, but if the interest in the player exists, I don't think these are still the days where KW will ignore him because of the agent. Perhaps if this was the offseason after 05', but I don't believe so anymore. I think if Hunter signs with Texas, Kenny will turn some interest to Jones.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) I totally disagree. Crisp was good in Cleveland but hasn't been the same since. I don't like what he brings and I don't like his sideways wearing hat. I don't know what others see in Patterson. He does good for a bit then falls off completely. Andruw Jones long term? Why him over Hunter? I like Hunter's all around game. I also like his leadership style. I like the fact that he is vocal and doesn't take crap from anyone. Give me 5 years of Hunter over any of these other jamokes. Explain why Jones would be a better long term solution than Hunter. Hunter has played in the American League. He has played in the Central. He is very familiar with the pitchers, the style of play, the ballparks. You shouldn't have a transition struggle phase. You may have this with Jones. You really don't know how good he will be in the American League. Hunter still brings speed and stolen base potential to the offense as well. He is really good in all areas of the game and plays winning baseball. I can't say that Andruw Jones always does this. Well, for one thing, Jones is younger. I'm not so worried about the comparison in the first 2-3 years of the contract, but more so in the final few years of the contract. I just don't want to be paying Hunter $15 million a year when he is 37. Secondly, Hunter has played on turf for the past 8-9 years. His defense began declining after he broke his ankle in 05'. Sure, he looks great out there, mainly because he plays 10 steps in front of the warning track so he can rob home runs. But he let's an absolute ton of singles drop in. Jones, on the other hand, is arguably the best defensive center fielder to ever play the game. Sure, he may not have as many highlight-reel plays as Hunter, but he gets to an awful lot of balls that Hunter doesn't even sniff. Despite Jones' defense supposedly in vast decline, he had a very similar season to Hunter defensively this past season. Thirdly, over the course of their careers, Jones has been a better hitter than Hunter. Hunter's posted a .793 career OPS while Jones has posted a career OPS of .839. Jones is more selective than Hunter, and hits for more power than Hunter. While Jones had a very down season this past year, he's had more "great" years than Hunter at the plate. This is not to say they are not similar players....there probably are not two more comparable players in the league right now than these two. However, I like Jones better because of his age, as well as his potential to have outstanding seasons at the plate relative to Hunter. We can't just remember 07' when considering a contract of this length and $ amount. We must consider their entire careers. As for Crisp and Patterson, they aren't the huge names that Hunter and Jones are, but I think both could be had (combined) for less than Jones or Hunter individually. Crisp, in my opinion, will rebound offensively once he gets away from Fenway, and is a very solid defender. Patterson, while he struggles mentally it seems, is an excellent CF and could finally begin to realize some of the natural raw talent he possesses. They would form an outstanding defensive CF and LF, which would be nice considering how bad Dye is beginning to look in RF. I'm not arguing that Crisp and Patterson would be the best option, or even a good option, just that in the grand scheme of things, it may be a better option than having to go 6 years with Torii Hunter at $15 per.

Indeed. And no one will blame him...In fact, I hope he does...I don't want us to give him a 5th year, let alone a 6th year. If we need to go that long-term with someone, I'd go with Jones. If it is going to take 6 years with anyone, I think I'd just as well go with Patterson and Crisp than lock ourselves into a bad contract.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 06:37 PM) HA HA! Awesome! I would honestly love for the Rangers to sign Hunter and for the White Sox to up their pursuit of Jones. An article on mlbtraderumors suggested that the Nationals were the only team currently pursuing Jones.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 06:32 PM) First - I don't care if others believe it. I didn't try to get others to believe it. I told others to believe what they want. Possibly many others look into things way too much. Perhaps they shouldn't and they should just read what the post states. You can't really argue my opinion. It is either right or wrong and we will have to see about that. Second - it is neither of those. perhaps those are the reasons why you post certain things, but it never enters my mind. Why do you desire to share anything on a message board? Third - Characterizing the way someone looks is the same as calling someone that. Saying you look like an angry crazed nutcase that cares way too much about message board postings is the same thing as just saying it withouth the look like. Fourth - my post is not blown up at all - yet. It will be blown up if Hunter doesn't sign between tomorrow and Monday. Fair enough. I'm not trying to fight with anyone...just curious as to why you would expend so much energy trying to fight back if you don't care. And secondly, I'm not sure why anyone would post something on a public message board if not for the express purpose of sharing that thought. Insult me all you'd like- I really don't mind it. But honestly, from the standpoint of offering an analogy...do you go around speaking everything that is on your mind, or just those thoughts that you wish others to hear?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) Oh Christ. First - there is no backtracking. Find something where I said it is a fact and that I have inside knowledge or that I know someone. Please do that. No backtracking at all. It was always my opinion, which I stated at the beginning. I said I know this. Then I said I have a feeling. Then I said I have a feeling that I know. Go check it out - right from the beginning. Wow - issues. You caught me trying to look cool on a message board again. This is the place I go to look cool. You are right. You are right again. I feel like such a jackass because Hunter, Hicks, and Daniels ate dinner last night. Damint, why did that have to happen? Why all the anger? I can't explain it logically. Maybe it just is what it is and we will find out between tomorrow and Monday. That is pretty simple, right? Please get this poster to stop attacking me personally and get him back on his meds. He needs some help. Ok, well if you cannot explain it logically, please explain to us why we should all follow your gut feelings? Honestly, I have absolutely nothing wrong with people expressing their opinions on message boards. I would not come to one if not for my desire to read those opinions. However, the fact is, as many others have preceded me in stating, you presented your opinion as fact, rather than a well-argued opinion, and expected other posters to believe that. If that was not your intention, why the desire to share it with us? I just ask why one would post something like that if not for one of the following reasons: 1) to get attention; or 2) to appear as though one knew something others did not. So which was it? And no, I was not calling you a jackass, but rather, characterizing the way you looked after your misleading post was blown up by the news that Hunter had enjoyed dinner with Hicks and Daniels.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 05:44 PM) Totally. Completely. Agree. We are all dumber for having read this nonsense. Why waste our time, your own time, the electricity required to run your computer so you could enter in these posts? Why don't you just admit you wanted to look cool by posting something you merely were guessing on but wanted to make it look like you had some inside information? The timing of the news which stated Hunter did have dinner with Hicks and Daniels made you look like a jackass, and then you began backtracking from there, with this "it's just my opinion" nonsense. Just to think logically for a minute, WHY would there not be an announcement already if there was ALREADY a deal completed? Because you are not stating that a deal WILL occur in the next 5 days, you are stating that a deal has ALREADY occurred. Can you please explain to us why the White Sox, Rangers, and Hunter himself would all be bs'ing everyone like this? Logically. Why?

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 02:08 PM) Fields really isn't that athletic on the field. You would never know he was a collegiate QB. I'm one of his biggest fans on this site, but I was kind of disappointed in his speed. He claimed he really didn't get comfortable opening it up until towards the end of the season...he had some sort of mild quad or hamstring injury for most of the year that precluded him from feeling comfortable really turning on the wheels.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 11:46 AM) The thing Levine did was announce he was staking his reputation on it. Once he did that and it fell through, he looks like a fool. I think Coco would hit better away from Fenway. He has been banged up. If KW could acquire him to play LF with Hunter in CF, not much drops in the OF. I just hope KW gets the pitchers that can keep the ball in the park, and who can throw strikes. Who do we send to Boston for Crisp? They signed Lowell, so they don't want Crede. They have far more pitching than we do, so we can't really afford to send them that. Possibly an OF prospect? Sweeney?

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 10:54 AM) Crisp's power numbers are significantly down over the past two seasons. Hasn't he been dealing with a broken hand or finger or something though? And isn't Fenway somewhat difficult for LH hitters to go deep in? As for the Vizquel situation, I think everyone thought he was coming here. So much so that the White Sox significantly changed the manner in which they approached free agent signings because of that specific incident. I think it's unfair to blame that on Levine- he certainly wasn't the only one made to look foolish by Omar signing with San Francisco.

It would be a tremendous insult to Tom Hicks and his family if Torii and his agent just decided to hang for dinner at the Hicks' residence if a deal is already complete with the White Sox. His dinner there may certainly have been a posturing move to show the White Sox he is serious about Texas, but from everything I have heard about Torii, he is a class act- I sincerely doubt he would waste the time of the Rangers owner, his sons, and his GM by being entertained for an evening when he has already committed to another deal. I have no doubt that Hunter wants to be a White Sox, but that doesn't preclude him from trying to become a White Sox on his own terms, rather than their own. I sincerely doubt anything has been agreed to, or that anything is a "done deal."

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 10:01 PM) The other thing is supposedly Baltimore is discussing a Bedard/Kemp deal with LA. KW has been after Bedard for years. Is LA trying to get him for KW? I think it's more that LA has deemed Bedard a higher priority than MCabrera. I also was told by a fairly decent source that the Angels could complete a trade with Florida for MCabrera and announce it as early as Wednesday. Supposedly, it's pretty much a done deal at this point...

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Nov 14, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) The yankmees are where the money is that's for sure. Booras made ammistake by suggesting to A-Rod to opt out of a$25M a year contract. Now I see the Yanks don't want Booras in the same room with A-Rod when negotiating. Kind of like rubbing his face in it maybe before they take him back Do you really think this wasn't Boras' and Arod's idea in the first place? He realizes he needs the Yankees in the picture, so he makes the Yankees think they are getting some sort of concession. I'm fairly certain this is just another stunt by the both of them to get the bidding war going even further. Meanwhile, all the talking heads are calling this out as a tactical mistake by Boras. Talk about the trojan horse all over again...

QUOTE(Vance Law @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 11:40 AM) Er, no he didn't flop. Take another look. Weeks has been battling a wrist injury he sustained in 06'. He certainly didn't come back strong from it to start 07', but it looks like around August it finally healed and he started playing to his potential. Had a very solid final two months or so...

QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Nov 13, 2007 -> 08:12 AM) I think that's really over-valuing Garland. Weeks? For a 1 year of league-average pitching at $12M? There's not a big market for that. Gamel is a B prospect, which is about what the Sox should expect -- Perry, Sickels, and BP have all pegged Garland as being worth a B prospect plus maybe a C prospect. He's just not going to bring much in return. The Rockies already have decided not to pursue him because $12M is too much to fit in their payroll (according to Ringolsby). Plus teams know the Sox have to shed payroll if they want to sign Hunter. I'm really going to have to disagree on some level. While Garland isn't locked up to a multi-year deal for $8 million per, he is a guy you can get that will just be on your books for 1 year. Looking at the pitching market, you can either sign a guy like Carlos Silva and commit $40 million over 4 years, or Kyle Lohse and give him a Jason Marquis contract. Does having Garland for just 1 year and committing $12 million really look so bad after considering those options? I think not...

QUOTE(Chombi and the Fungi @ Nov 9, 2007 -> 02:36 PM) Jones has been on Williams board forever it seems. Bringing him in now I just don't see happening unless it's at a discount. Boras has said he wants 15 mil for multi or he'll take the cheap end on a one year "rebuild value" deal. If that's true, I can't see us even bother. I did see something about a 13 mil deal but that was via mlbtr so I don't know if it was something of substance. If it is legit then maybe we will get involved. I'd say Rowand and Hunter may have to be off the table as well. Anyone have concerns w/Jones? Maybe he isn't 30? Maybe he needs to come into camp in shape for once. They said he has lost a step but I don't know where. So??? Tough call on him. Honestly, Jones did that this past season. Jones worked his butt off in the offseason, came into camp in perhaps the best shape he has been in since his early twenties, and had a terrible year at the plate. He did supposedly regain that "lost step" in the field, however. I've been campaigning for his signing over Hunter's for months now. However, a few posters are correct in that Boras may advise him to sign a one-year deal in the hopes that he rebuilds his value after 08' and signs a Soriano/Wells type contract next offseason. Another note is that Torii Hunter mentioned on the radio the other morningn with Silvy and Waddle that he's planning on taking his time in the free agent process. I'm not certain how much of that was posturing on his part, but I know I have read that the White Sox plan to make him their best offer (or something very close to it) on Tuesday, and if it isn't good enough, they will move on to other candidates. Perhaps this is when a more open Jones courtship could begin...

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 5, 2007 -> 11:19 PM) Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your trade idea though. It's more realistic than asking if we can get Kemp and Kershaw for Garland, etc. It's just the Dodgers are in a situation where they're looking to clear some positions in order to get young guys into the lineup. If Schmidt could even get back to 90 pct of what he was, they'd have a great starting 4 in the rotation. Well, I agree that that would be the conventionl logic. If any team is in a position to clear salary and insert their young players, it is the Dodgers. That being said, I recently read that they were looking to actually move a few young players for veterans. Perhaps this was the calm before the storm that became Kemp and Kershaw for Santana, but I am absolutely certain I saw that somewhere. Certainly Jon would not be the worse they could do, all things considered in the marketplace right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ Oct 5, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) It's not about trading for Vazquez....it's the critical error KW made in giving up Young instead of Anderson. Now we're in a position where we're going to have to spend a lot of money on overrated center fielders this offseason. Honestly, if you're going to look at things this way, you'll just never sleep well at night. Things like this are going to happen. And if you're going to blame Kenny for something, it just can't be that the players he trades away go on to be good major league players, because in the vast majority of instances, they simply do not. And another thing, if the DBacks supposedly wanted Anderson first, we weren't the only ones who thought he would hit at the ml level. And as 29th said, Phil Rogers has an amazing talent for showing up with all the right know-how about 8 months after the event occurs. He never seems to have these facts at the time of the trade. It's only about a year later when some sort of event prompts him to suddenly have this knowledge. He's a decent writer in a town full of really crappy ones right now, but no one ever accused him of having the "scoop" on the White Sox, that's for certain.