harfman77

There is another Yoan that is also subject to the penalties, 21 year old RHP Yoan Lopez. The 21-year-old is a flamethrower who can hit triple digits on the radar gun. He fashioned a 3.12 ERA with 28 strikeouts and 11 walks over 49 innings for Isla de la Juventud in Cuba’s Serie Nacional. That was his last season before he defected from Cuba. He was previously declared a free agent by the Major League Baseball. Lopez, who has residency in Haiti, must be cleared by the Office of Foreign Assets Control of the United States Department of the Treasury before he can sign with a team. He held a showcase on November 8 and will show off his talent in front of big-league scouts next week. Lopez is 6-foot-4 and weights 190-pounds. He offers a cut-fastball, changeup, curveball and a slider.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/instagraphs...comment-4821345 This is a great read from Kiley McDaniel again and it really drives home a few points. I think this is a very good thing to read especially when we consider guys like Matt Davidson and Erik Johnson. I think it is very valid when players jump to new levels and play stiffer competition, like Hawkins last season. I think the failures of two guys repeating the same level are less valuable.

QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 02:33 PM) What in the hell is all this talk about the Red Sox trading for Chris Sale?! Where are you hearing that from?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 12:15 PM) White Sox TV ratings are also among the lowest in baseball. 4 times as many people watch the Tigers on local TV than the White Sox. Half of MLB is #1 or #2 or #3 in local ratings when they are on in prime time. The White Sox rank #11th. Which turns into a great argument for the relocation thread.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 11:44 AM) The Royals did exactly what you are proposing. They would trade their stars for prospects. No, they would hold them until they were near free agency and then trade them for prospects when their value was at its lowest, and end up with a bunch of A ball players, which is the exact opposite of what I am talking about. Selling at peak value now will allow the Sox to rake in multiple MLB ready prospects, taking a lot of the prospect uncertainty out of the equation.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 11:28 AM) I don't think that's wrong at all. The Royals, unlike the White Sox, were unwilling to spend money to fill those other holes and also made some god awful trades during that time frame. I have no problem trading Chris Sale and/or Jose Quintana after the 2017 season if the Sox have shown no signs of competitiveness, because that leaves them with something like 2-3 years of control each, which is still incredibly valuable, and gives the Sox another 3 years with the current team. If that's not enough time, it was never going to happen. However, if you fill the major holes in the lineup with either guys that are currently here or guys from outside the organization - the areas that could use upgrades from last year are C, 2B, LF, RF, DH, SP, SP, SP, and we'll just say bullpen in general - then the Sox are looking fine. That's easy to say, but you can also look at a few of those holes and pencil in upgrades - 2B is Semien, RF is Garcia, DH is LaRoche, one of the SP is Rodon, one of the relievers is Duke, one of the relievers may be Webb - and it's starting to look a lot better fairly quickly. There's no rush to trade these guys off. Yeah, if someone makes an absurd offer for Quintana, you take it, but nobody's going to do that. Thats exactly the point I am trying to make, though given the market, I am not sure that no one is going to give you a big offer for him. I am not trying to rush guys off as much as I am trying to expand the window of contention. Once Scherzer and Lester sign, Q is going to look very attractive to the teams that missed on adding them.

I'm all in on Moncada, you never get the opportunity for players of this talent level at this age available on the open market. With the smaller payroll this season, there should be money left in the bank to make a run at him. I think he ends up signing for between $20-$30M, and would get twice that if not for the penalties.

Pass.

QUOTE (peavy44 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 11:07 AM) http://m.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article/102...nvesting-wisely Alexei going no where without dodgers giving up joc or seager Ha.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 11:05 AM) Ok so our current situations is this: we have a handful of star-level players who are controllable and cheap. We can either (a) get rid of them for different players who are controllable and cheap and hopefully will reach star-level or (b) leverage the advantage that those players give us and actually try to win a World Series. If your goal is to win a WS, option B is the only option. Option A is a perpetual cycle of "maybe next year." My point is NOT that you can win by ONLY acquiring assets with surplus value. That's impossible. My point IS that trading Sale or Quintana at this point is a characteristic of option A. There is a point where Sale and Quintana should be traded. That point is somewhere around 2018 in the instance that those players may no longer fit into the plan for the next five years because they are older/less effective/no longer in possession of several years of below-market control. We are ONE year into this current cycle of Hahn building a perpetual winner. We must stay the course. There is no realistic package that we can get for Chris Sale that will bring us closer to the WS than keeping Chris Sale, and we have not given this core a chance to win. It is not time to tear it down. Wrong, option B is how you end up like the Royals of the 90's, having a couple stars but not having enough depth to ever make a run. Thats the option where you get to see players like Chris Sale win championships in other cities while you remenice on his time as a White Sox and how he should have won Cy Youngs, but couldn't win enough games because of the talent around him. In option "A" you move one of those players and supplement the other stars that remain with above replacement level players, if some reach star status that is icing on the cake. The teams in the WS this year are great examples, neither could be considered to have more than a couple of star players (especially with Cain out), but are solid enough all around that they make up for it. Obviously Sale and Abreu are off the table, but a Q trade could fill a lot of holes and provide enough upgrades that the Sox can contend next season and each of the years that they still have Sale under contract.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 10:24 AM) I think the problem with Quintana is that teams will be able to acquire similar or arguably better pitchers for lesser amounts. If the Red Sox offered Bogaerts, Cecchini, and Webster for Cueto right now (and it might not even have to be that much), the Reds would jump to make that trade in a second. The Sox would not even consider that trade as is for Quintana. I won't say Quintana or Cueto is better (I'd say Cueto, but I'd listen to arguments for Quintana too), so why would Boston want to pay more in terms of players when they aren't an organization that cares too much about how much they spend? Of course the Reds would make that trade, Cueto is a year away from FA. A year of a top arm is not worth the same as 5 years. Getting Cueto puts them in a position to have to fill that hole in the roster again next off-season. If they re-signed Cueto it would be at an amount that would make it tough to add someone else like Lester or Scherzer when they already have Panda and Hanley signed to large deals, yes they have a big budget, but it isn't limitless. I think they would prefer Hamels to Q, but if someone else gets him, the Red Sox will have to think hard on putting together a big deal for Q. They have the prospect depth to deal from without affecting their lineup and will use it to reinforce their rotation.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) The White Sox have until 2019, in your own words, to do anything with the Sale/Quintana tandem. You do realize that next year is 2015, right? The Sox trading a guy like Quintana with 4 years of control would require a package like the one people on here are talking about accepting for Chris Sale. The bare minimum I'd consider taking from Boston is Bogaerts, Betts, Swihart, and De La Rosa, and I'd have to think about that one for a very long time. And, given what the Red Sox can give up to get guys like Cueto, Latos, Hamels, Shields, McCarthy, Hammel, Lester, or Scherzer, why would they give up what would be required for Jose Quintana? You never make anyone unavailable, but given what it would take to acquire those players, the Sox will essentially not trade Quintana or Sale. That is exactly the kind of deal I am talking about, though I would probably drop out Betts and replace him with JBJ and Henry Owens. If you can replace one guy on the roster with four guys that can be contributors, I think that the sum of their contribution will be worth more to the Sox than what Q is worth. If you don't get that type of return you don't make a deal. The reason they would give up that return is the value that is in the contract, each of the guys you mentioned are or will be free agents in the next year except Hamels. And spending more in prospects allows them to have money to go grab a second starting pitcher.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 09:21 AM) He is a fantastic defender and has a lot of upside. I'd love for the Sox to buy low on him if the Red Sox were willing to do so. The worst case scenario is that you end up with a fantastic defensive 4th outfielder which is not without value, and the upside is a 4-5 WAR player. I agree, would love to take a flier on him, though I am not sure what the Sox have to offer that Boston would be interested in for him without him being a throw in on a larger deal.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 09:20 AM) Guys You don't trade stars that are signed to the deals that Sale/Quintana are signed to. You literally cannot find better long-term assets. They are better than prospects. You trade your stars that are market rate assets. We have already done this -- the only one left is Alexei. Trading Sale and signing Scherzer is NOT a wash because Scherzer takes up 25% of your payroll. There is NO deal that we should accept that the Red Sox were willing to make for Chris Sale. Because the only deals we should except are deals that would make them worse. It does the Sox no good to have two really good starters signed to good contracts if the roster is not in a position to compete. If you have the opportunity to plug multiple roster holes at the same time and put the team into a place where it can contend, you absolutely must do it. Your window with Sale and Q is until 2019, and after that they will move on to a more competitive team with a larger payroll and all you will get in return is a draft pick. I don't think Sale can be traded as there isn't a way for a team to match his value, but the Sox need to think really hard about trading Q to help put the entire roster in a better position to compete in the window that Sale is still here.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 01:51 AM) Right, but if he DOESN'T resign with us, then you've traded away those prospects for absolutely nothing in return, considering Cespedes won't make us a contender in 2015. I think Mookie Betts has to be the absolute #1 target from the Boston OF. Betts isn't getting traded. You acquire Cespedes along with the competitive balance pick that Oakland sent to Boston with Cespedes to recoup the prospect cost.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 09:56 PM) A .316 OBP from a power hitter is absolutely terrible. Sox have been plagued by low obp ozzie-style players for years and years. There is a new philosophy on the southside, thankfully. Not Ozzie style, KW style. That style was evident in the players that were drafted as well as acquired. Unfortunatly that trend has continued in that Hahn era with acquisitions like Hawkins, Adolfo, Davidson, and Brandon Jacobs. All guys with huge power tools and poor hit tools. There is still hope that Adolfo can develop, but that Sox quest for RH power has really been costly.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 08:05 PM) But put that in context. Cespedes career wRC+ numbers 2012 - 2014: 136, 102, 109 Viciedo over the same three years: 98, 96, 88 wRC+ is essentially wOBA but indexed so you can see how it compares to league average. Viciedo has been a below average bat by wOBA in every full season of his career. Cespedes, on the other hand, has been above average every year, even if just sightly. To add some more context, Cespedes started playing in his age 26 season, Viciedo has not reached that age yet. Given linear development, it is not a stretch to think that Viciedo is going to be the offensive equivalent, the difference of course is that Cespedes provides additional value with his defense.

I could see Q making a lot of sense for Boston if they miss on Lester. They would probably prefer Hamels at that point because he would cost less in prospects due to his related contract, but I could see a deal bring made if the Red Sox want to put something together.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 25, 2014 -> 01:19 AM) By my count, the Red Sox have 9 outfielders..... Cespedes, Castillo, Hanley, Victorino, Nava, Craig, Bradley Jr., Betts, Holt Their starting rotation is a mess. I can't imagine with this wild spending spree that they don't just go for broke (sound familar? Beckett, Gonzalez, Crawford) and bring back Lester or even add Scherzer. I'd like to see the Sox target Betts to play LF. Even though it may be a slap in the face, I'd like to see us offer Montas + a lesser prospect for Betts. Maybe Montas + Beck. I think Betts would be an awesome fit for this team as he just turned 22, he hits for good average (.346 in 99 games in AA-AAA, .291 in 51 ML games), hits for decent power (11 HR in AA-AAA, 5 in ML), steals a lot of bases (33 in AA-AAA, 7 in ML), walks MORE than he strikes out (61 BB, 50 K in AA-AAA, 21 BB, 31 K in ML), and plays CF and 2B, meaning he should be able to play a good LF for us. I mean, he's a super impressive player who absolutely dominated baseball at age 21. Combine AA-AAA-MLB numbers last year, and he hit about .320 with 16 HR, 40 SB, 42 2B, a 400+ OBP, and he still has 6 years of team control left. I mean, he'd be a pretty phenomenal get, in my opinion. It would probably cost us a LOT more than Montas + Beck if it wasn't for the fact that the Red Sox have so many damn OFers already, and it's certainly possible they will clear other guys in order to KEEP Betts. But I wish Hahn would really press Cherington and try and dangle some of our pitching prospects for him. Hanley may end up at SS for the next couple of seasons as well, so I wouldn't necessarily add him to the mix either. Bogaerts may be the centerpiece in a deal to bring a SP to Boston. I could see them keeping Hanley at SS until Ortiz retires, then moving Sandoval over to DH and Hanley to 3B and plugging Marrero in at SS.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Nov 21, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) Chicago ---> Cincinnati Jose Quintana Chicago ----> Philadelphia Chris Beck Cincinnati ----> Chicago Jay Bruce Philadelphia ----> Chicago Cole Hamels + cash Cincinnati ----> Philadelphia Prospects Why would Cincinnati trade Jay Bruce and simultaneously give up prospects that would speed up the re-building process they would be starting? There is no way on earth that the Sox are getting Jay Bruce AND Cole Hamels AND cash for Q and Chris Beck. The Phillies are not eating any cash in a Hamels deal, they will get three to four A level prospects for him or they will hold him.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 04:13 PM) Why Raul Fernandez is on the 40 is beyond me, he should probably be next to go with Leury close to follow. Why? He has come pretty good stuff, just needs a bit of refinement, but could be a high leverage reliever in the not too distant future. A team with bullpen depth issues should not be quick to discard such an asset.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 03:31 PM) I really couldn't disagree more with this. I think Wilkins and Carroll's 40 man spots are really quite safe. Rienzo I don't think has a lot of life left, nor does Phegley. Regarding Rienzo, I'm just not sure he's a good pitcher (but it was worth getting a look at him this year). Phegley I think can be an OK player at the MLB level but there's just not a lot of room for a player with his skillset on the Sox roster. He is a guy that might go for a guy like Raul Fernandez but who doesn't need a 40-man spot...he can throw it through a brick wall but has no idea where it's going. In a lot of ways, Phegley's situation kind of reminds me of Gillaspie in that he keeps hitting in AAA, there's no room for him at the MLB level, he's running out of options, and he's not hitting a lot at the MLB level. Wilkins hits left handed and crushed the ball the second half of last year. There's no need to get rid of a player like that. He might be a pinch hitter or AAA depth and he may ultimately be a AAAA player but there's no need to get rid of a youngish guy who hit 30 homers in the minors last year. And Carroll pitched well enough that he can be counted on to be 7th starter or 9th guy out of the bullpen, or perhaps he finds a role as a swing man in the bullpen. I agree that Wilkins is probably very safe on the roster, he can provide value as depth at AAA and possibly a LH bench bat to spell Abreu. Carroll I am not so sure of, as he seems to be just a guy, so if they get into a roster crunch, I think he would be considered. The order at which I think people will be removed from the 40 man roster: 1. Maikel Cleto 2. JB Shuck 3. Andre Rienzo 4. Josh Phegley 5. Scott Carroll

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 02:39 PM) Onelki Garcia pitched in 1 game between the majors and minors last year. He had elbow surgery in Nov of 2013, but that's all I can find right now. Unless I'm mistaken, those went to Ravelo, Smith, Saladino, and Montas. From MLB: "Used mostly as a reliever in pro ball, Garcia made his big league debut in that role last September. He relies mostly on two pitches: a fastball, which usually arrives at 92-95 mph and seems quicker because he employs a deliberate delivery, and a curveball. Garcia has a hard curve that gets up to 82 mph and elicits swings and misses, and he has a slower mid-70s version that he can get over the plate for strikes. Garcia also has a raw changeup, but the lack of an effective third offering and spotty control make him a better option in the bullpen rather than the rotation. Garcia had bone chips removed from his elbow in November and he was slower to return then expected." They ranked him the #17 prospect in the Dodger organization at the end of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 02:36 PM) That puts us at 40 and means no Rule 5 pick this year. And no more free agents.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Nov 20, 2014 -> 02:29 PM) Leury lives for another day. Waiting for the scouting report on our new lefty...... Garcia is a guy I was hoping they would acquire in a Ramirez trade as a throw in. Another Cuban defector, MLB ranked him as the #17 Dodgers prospect at the end of the season. From MLB: "Used mostly as a reliever in pro ball, Garcia made his big league debut in that role last September. He relies mostly on two pitches: a fastball, which usually arrives at 92-95 mph and seems quicker because he employs a deliberate delivery, and a curveball. Garcia has a hard curve that gets up to 82 mph and elicits swings and misses, and he has a slower mid-70s version that he can get over the plate for strikes. Garcia also has a raw changeup, but the lack of an effective third offering and spotty control make him a better option in the bullpen rather than the rotation. Garcia had bone chips removed from his elbow in November and he was slower to return then expected."