quickman

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:54 AM) Because Owens is going to start at DH over Thome? No because owens will play left field. If they sign Rowand who is your leadoff guy?

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:50 AM) Why would they need Uribe AND Burke on the same roster? they don't want Uribe... he is trying to peddle Uribe and his guns everyday.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) Back to Joe Crede. Joe contributed little if anything in 2007. At this point, getting a useful major league piece for him is bettering the team, if we are comparing 2007 to 2008. Keeping him until July is a gamble. Yes he may come back strong or he may hurt his back in April just like last year. Yes some team may have a need for a 3B in July, maybe they won't. One thing we know quikman is there is a 3B market right now. Not a lot but there is a market. Trade him and let's be done with it. On the other comparisons - I am not an apologist but Cabrera will improve the team and those around him. I feel they will get Rowand. Is he Hunter, no he isn't. Is he better than what they have, yes he is. All I can say is basically no one saw the Cabrera move coming, nor the Linebrink move, nor the trade yesterday. Anyone can judge at any given time but I prefer to judge when they're done making moves as they don't play baseball in December. Just my take. Also I think they will add more pitching. Another relief guy. Again just my take on it. All your points maybe valid but they are not enough for us to say (we are going for it). yes I know they do not play in December. i too feel they will get Rowand, and if they do, then owens is your leadoff guy. Probably not a a playoff contender right there. i hope they do get another starter, they will need one. we will see, right now, I stand by my statement he mis calculated his moves.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) I still find it comical he gives Uribe 4.5 million, only to then trade his best trade chip a week later for a SS. I like the Quentin move, but more for the next 4 years and not for 2008. Correct, KW has come out and said we are going for it, and mis manages the whole process. he mis calculated everything so far and has overpaid for the talent he secured. I too like the quenten trade but not for team who is going for it this year! I think he is a nice pick up, but nothing to bank your season on. He has totally lost me.

QUOTE(Melissa1334 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:13 AM) well if we can get jones..he'll put up better numbers than hunter next year..too bad we wont get him though Well melissa, I am not sure when we last signed a free agent who was a boras client, but I am pretty sure this won't happen. Call me a fool, but KW is a miserable failure so far this offseason. It will not get better, and he will try to save his ass by over paying and bringing in Aaron Rowand trying to get a pass from Sox fans. Now, if he doesn't get Rowand he will try for crisp, eitherway these are not superstars that can change a team and leapfrog three other teams in the division unless you have tremendous pitching, which they won't, because your betting on the cum with Floyd who is very un proven, and Danks, who is years away from having a season like garland did a few years back and Contraras who is close to the end of his pitching life cycle. This division is just too tough. The sox have so many holes, its just too big to overcome in one season.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:58 AM) I offer significant disagreement with this statement. Just look at the 5 major changes we've made this offseason. Only 1 of them can be regarded as a step backwards. Quentin >>> Podsednik Owens > Erstad Cabrera >>> Uribe Linebrink > Masset Garland > Floyd The only place we've taken a step back is downgrading from Garland to Floyd, and with Garland's inconsistency, who knows how that will change things. On the other hand, we've added a vet to the bullpen, fixed the gaping hole at SS, and replaced 2 of the worst OF's in baseball with 1 incredibly talented guy and another with what is at least a non-terrible leadoff hitter type guy. We may still be a last place team, that depends on guys like Danks, Floyd, and Contreras...but we're at least better on paper than we were going in last year with Podsednik and Erstad and Uribe all starting. And I will counter with the following. Pods wasn't around much so quite frankly they played the majority of the season with other players who are just as inexperienced as the great Quenten. Cabrera is better- how many more games do we win with this old team. Linebrink is better but Masset only played a quarter of the season anyway. owens or others played for the injured ersted anyway. that is still the same as last year. My point is, how much better are we. We lost a good pitcher and gained a better short stop. we over paid for a bullpen arm but how many games in the standings did we increase? Right now i really think we are no better. Cabrera doesn't buy us many more games if any over garland. owens blows, Linebrink is better but how many games does that buy us? They are really not much better and not much more out there to have us compete with the strong division we have. Hunter was the player and we swung and missed.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:25 AM) The time to trade him is now and not in spring. They need to move him before other team's 3B situation are settled. Strike fast while there's somewhat of a market. Yes Crede is a stop gap for whomever gets him, the key is to package some young pitching with him. Hopefully that allows you to get something good in return. Either way you'll be getting back some player who is a "buy low". Of course so is Crede. All of a sudden Boras checks in with Hahn, telling him Crede's rehab is coming along great. Sounds like an imminent trade to me, why else does Boras even bother? Boras is not known for reaching out to anyone, let alone the White Sox. i didn't realize that Boras checked in with Hahn. I thought they recently talked about crede, no specifics on who checked with who. That said, getting some fringe player or even a low A player for Crede is not optimal. Why not just keep him around for at least half this year if we are truly not re-building. Something in the market will open up, either by injury or incompetence. I just do not want to give the guy away. Just a note I am generally disgusted with managment right now. The attitude is still small market while the fans have been packign the park the past 2 years and MLB is flushed with cash. Hell even KC is adding payroll which by percentage over last year will increase more than sox(pending anything out of the ordinary) I do realize that most teams have threshholds, but we are in the third largest market in the US and we have been trained like donkeys to buy this nonsense. We cannot sit in between going for it and re-building. it won't work, either you bite the bullet and go, or you blow this thing up. As it stands today we are no better than last years club. Which is last place.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Dec 3, 2007 -> 10:28 PM) The only way Fields goes anywhere is if the White Sox deal with Florida for Cabrera. Even then I'm thinking no. MLB.com says the Sox are definitely sniffing around and talking to Florida. As for Crede, my guess is to the Brewers with a young pitcher, in exchange for more proven pitching. Is this really that big of news from Kenny? I think everyone who knows this team predicated crede leaving two years ago anyway, it was just a matter of time. Well I can't see the Brewers giving much back for a player coming off of back surgery and having a Boras client in his final year. There is really no good timing for this trade, if you trade him now you won't get back much, if you wait your upside in a deal may get better or it might prove crede needs more healing time. A team would need to be patient with him from an injury standpoint and because he is in his final year with Boras I can't see many teams doing that. With all this stated, I think they should wait and trade him after teams see him in spring training, I realize this is a gamble but if he proves healthy after the first 3 weeks of training then you may get more for him.

QUOTE(fathom @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 09:38 PM) Thankfully they said Carter, and not soxtalk icon Egbert. aren't all the whitesox scrub farm hands Soxtalk icons? They all blow. Wasn't Brian Andersen a top 50 prospect in the past.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 29, 2007 -> 08:07 AM) I guess I have to explain this again, the know it all profane college kid doesn't comprehend. I said he had a declining K rate and, follow me closely now because I'm not sure you have the ability to understand this ... He used to be over a strikeout per inning guy and he's not any more. Get it? Apparantly you don't. Please go talk to a college girl or two instead of hanging around on message boards, it might ease your obvious frustration or whatever's bugging you, nit picker. You picked out the last three years, I looked at his entire career. Now, as I've asked you more than once, if you insist on following me around picking arguments, go talk to another poster. It's not my fault a mod got on your back about your profanity and the tone of your responses and you've got an angry pill stuck in your throat. Well, the more things change the more they stay the same. Quite an interesting argument. If I may post to you. I hated Riske but I do think we completly overpaid for Linebrink. That said, its done, and we need to move onto how Brian Anderson, sweeney, owens and every other minor league player we have stinks!

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 20, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) I thought this was odd also. If the Hunter signing is imminent, why would they fill the 40 man. Either it's not imminent or there will need to be a trade for someone on it (Crede/Uribe) first. Doesn't sound like the Hunter deal is as close as some thought. completely agree, I hope this tells us that there will be a trade in the next few days. I believe the sox traded rowand the day after thanksgiving a couple years back. Means nothing other than things may be in the works.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:53 PM) Yes, they do. KW said that Guillen might, on occasion depending on matchups, put Orlando Cabrera in the leadoff spot but quickly added Cabrera fills the #2 hole. If you look at the positions, the only spot is LF for a leadoff guy. Guillen kept talking about a guy who gets on base. They have two possibiities on the roster who can play LF and have led off, those being Ozuna and Owens. On the surface, that's a platoon but neither of those two are particularly high on base guys. Owens might improve in that area. However I see them aiming higher. I also believe Owens has a spot but not as a starter, rather as a backup. He can be valuable in that role. A guy with speed at the top is a plus but if you can't get that (a 50+ stolen base guy, a burner), then you look at a good contact hitter with a great batting eye who's also a proficient baserunner. Who is out there? Shannon Stewart, do not know if Catalanatto is available, one poster here mentioned some of Toronto's guys, etc. Again if you can't get the speed merchant then a good hitter who has good AB's and is .360+ on base is the next best thing. As for Podsednik ... I would be shocked if his time here isn't over. Don't forget all the rumors of Coco Crisp. Still maybe something there, although that will not come for Crede. Love the catalanatto idea, but I think he is signed for this year, it would take a trade for sure.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 07:14 PM) We are thinking the same on this one. Like Chisoxfn said yesterday, lots of teams would be interested in Konerko. Whether there's a fit or not is another story. With Williams all but saying more deals are imminent, my guess is they're not nickel and dime trades. He also said today he's having trouble acquiring bullpen help so it may take a bigger trading chip to get something done. It is clear though, he is targeting good defensive players which will help a pitching staff. I was under the impression that konerko had a list of teams he could be traded to. I maybe be wrong but if so, I think Konerko prefers the west over the east. Just something to check on. In addition, if konerko does get traded we would then need a first baseman unless your thinking Thome can play that position, which may not be a good idea. KW was clear that this is not a time for a youth movement and that he wants to win next year, trading konerko does not send this message.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Nov 19, 2007 -> 12:17 PM) To me all this trade does is raise more questions as to how the team will ultimately look. More will happen, this is just a start and I will reserve some judgement until the picture becomes clearer. However I agree with most of the sentiment here, it would've been nice to get more for Garland. It will be interesting to read Williams' comments on this move. I am really quite surprised that we did not pick up bullpen help from the angels. but this trade as bad as it is, will be based on the cash we get to use on another free agent like Hunter or rowand, and then you will hear KW talk about how strong we are up the middle. Very sorry to hear this happen, Garland will sign long term with the angels as he is back in california where he wants to be.

Here is some cold water, Rangers had dinner with Hunter tonight. They have more money, a history of spending the money and he lives in Texas. Lots of math says Hunter goes to Texas, but I am sure KW is counting on making an offer so he can appease sox fans by saying the Sox stepped up.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 30, 2007 -> 04:07 PM) I hope he gets it, for two reasons. One, I 'd like to see how he manages, hopefully he'd do well and help the Pirates do better in the NL Central. Two, I would love to see a veteran old school bench coach, i.e. a guy with managerial experience. this would be the very best thing for the whitesox. it may force Guillen to step outside his comfort zone and get a real bench coach.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 25, 2007 -> 04:44 PM) LaRussa's law degree is from Florida State per Vance Law, and I agree Rick Hahn would have little to do with players (free agents or free agents to be) wanting to come here or stay here. Players generally get a feel for that stuff from other players and knowing what the manager is like. Hahn is the primary guy who takes that level of interest and puts wheels to it, i.e. by developing a contract, negotiating, "selling" the city and franchise if it needs to be done. That's the aspect of recruiting I'm touching upon. In a good front office, several guys are trained and able to do that sort of thing. Guillen does a lot of recruiting too, mostly by the seat of his pants. I did not mean to diminish Williams' or Guillen's role in the organization as it pertains to recruiting, retention, negotiations/contracts in KW's case ... just pointing out what Hahn does in response to questions in this thread, and also stating that in my opinion he is very valuable to the White Sox front office and will be big shoes to fill if he leaves. Also, as an update of sorts to this Hahn/Cardinals thing, a blog I like to read about the Cardinals, Viva El Birdos, seems to think their new GM will be the Cleveland guy, Chris Antonetti. They are basing it on the timing and some things LaRussa said when he re-upped. Actually what hahn brings to the front office is a stable smart figure, unlike Guillen or Williams. I do believe they(oz and KW) should be the draw to get players interested but hahn brings some intelligence to the equation. I believe he will be missed if he leaves.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 20, 2007 -> 10:36 AM) Rick is a great guy, extremely smart, and is an expert on contracts, labor relations, among other things. I am very surprised he hasn't been snapped up a while ago. It would be a big loss but I can understand how he'd want the Cardinals job. Yes, I truly believe this will be a huge loss and with Ozzie locked up for more years and KW running the nut house, it looks like we will lose the more stable guy. Its going to be a long three years. I wonder if Hahn will take KW's whiteboard approach, I doubt it.

QUOTE(SEALgep @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 08:37 AM) Ya but the CF we go after probably will get on base and won't K at the rate of our big three. Do we really want a power hitter in CF that barely gets on base? His OBP was under .300, and granted 30 plus homeruns looks sexy, but I'm not looking for an all or nothing hitter in that spot. Especially if he were our leadoff man... I actaully believe chris young is another soriano. Its his rookie year and he will learn alot, but he reminds me of soriano. Most likely he will move down in the order as he progresses. Outside of his OBP, I think the message in this thread is we gave away a stud and we kept garbage, and thats why our system and management clearly needs help. They are in over their heads.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 5, 2007 -> 11:39 PM) Not a bad idea fathom!

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Jul 26, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) What I believe will happen is this, if he's not traded by Tuesday then he'll make the start at Yankee Stadium (which I will be attending in person due to an alumni event) as scheduled, and soon thereafter he will see some DL time, for the purpose of 1. giving him a breather 2. letting him fix some mechanical issues 3. give Gavin Floyd his starts for a while. Personally I sense his back and legs are giving him problems. He's not driving down on the follow through. actually if they cannot get rid of him he should sit immediately after the deadline and prepare for next year. We aren't going anywhere this year so there is no need to use him or his arm. as you know floyd is terrible, he will never make it despite the will of KW.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 9, 2007 -> 03:40 PM) It has come to our attention (and has been so for a long long time) that part of the problem with our database stems from an upgrade we made around 2 years ago. The upgrade caused a lot of errors in the database (and our db is huge) and these errors lead to slower queries and the db sticking from time to time (in my non technical terminology since I don't know the technical terminology, lol). I think the only way to ever really solve this problem (aside from going to a database specialist and paying a couple thousand bucks, which unfortunately is not an option, unless of course I win the lottery) is to start the site over. By starting over I mean installing a brand new version of the message board (no posts, no anything). The only potential thing we would be able to restore would be user names. This means nifty things like post counts and all that would be gone. However, we would plan on saving our old database and creating an archive (so that people could still look back and see all the old posts). I figure the long term benefits (faster site, able to search, doesn't crash when big news happens, etc) would be well worth the short term losses and hassle. I just wanted to throw this out to public opinion though to see if you all would be overly dissapointed or if you would be okay with this (basically if so we'd test it and make sure that the db was in fact the cause of the problem and if it wasn't, we would than bring back the old database and continue to see what the cause of the server issue is). This site should be able to handle a lot more than it does and we want to get it set up so it can so that we can continue to make and turn this into a better place. whatever you want.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:39 PM) Wouldn't you say that it's important to have someone to build around in the rotation, regardless? There's still the window where he can be traded, and despite the escalator clause, there's still that opportunity to move him. Plus, wouldn't he command more in a deal knowing that during that time where there is no NTC, that he will be locked up? I completely agree he is valuable if you intend to trade him. Don't get me wrong about any of this. he is a nice player but we have about 6 guys locking up half our payroll next year. if he was a perenial 20 game winner or at least close to that then I would completely agree. I just think the sox can only get better if they get younger and faster. At this time they have to find those players cheaply. To do that you need to make trades with desirable and expensive players. Buerhle is one of those, so is Garland. If crede was healthy he would be another, DYE won't bring much and neither will contraras. So though I agree pitching is the name of the game, the rest of the team will not be ready, unless we can figure out how to get better players with a cheaper payroll. QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) He's been the closest thing to an ace for us in recent years, along with both Garland and Contreras (AT CERTAIN POINTS). But I'm not just talking about him being a conrnerstone as a player, but as a person and a leader, dude. We all want to keep Buerhle not only because of the great player he is, but the great leader and person he is as well. i understand and I get it. I just look at it more like a business not like a fan who bouht a buerhle jersey. Now everyone needs to trust management to get things done right, and by the looks at some of the posts its doesn't look like they think the sox management is capable. QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) He's been the closest thing to an ace for us in recent years, along with both Garland and Contreras (AT CERTAIN POINTS). But I'm not just talking about him being a conrnerstone as a player, but as a person and a leader, dude. We all want to keep Buerhle not only because of the great player he is, but the great leader and person he is as well. i understand and I get it. I just look at it more like a business not like a fan who bought a buerhle jersey. Now everyone needs to trust management to get things done right, and by the looks at some of the posts its doesn't look like they think the sox management is capable. I hope the sox can rebuild without buerhle as the chip. QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 05:47 PM) ...this is going to be fun. I can't wait to see all these Happy Harrys that were so quick to cast the first stone when other's projections were dead wrong sit back, relax, and strap it down with a country sized helping of crow. amen, hey addison, want some tixs? Ping me.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) I think it's more likely it would be Contreras in the next few weeks, and then Garland during the offseason. Asking KW about Buehrle possibly being traded just as the bottom line thing keeps saying Buehrle has agreed to an extension. I agree, you maybe right, but this team is going nowhere this year, why not maximize the return and trade him now?

QUOTE(TheBigHurt @ Jul 8, 2007 -> 04:30 PM) Or maybe he's injured and we dodged a bullet O_o BTW, quickman, pull the stick out of your ass, please. I can't stand it when people always have to be negative. One of the cornerstones of our organization has been resigned to a long, cheap deal. Smile, for Christ's sake. I understand your message, and I am smiling, but I disagree he is a cornerstone. He is OK, but no ace. Just my opinion.