quickman

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Mar 9, 2007 -> 06:54 AM) We will regret dealing Boone Logan. We don't have the depth with lefty relievers to deal. Southsider, long time no talk, hope all is well, I don't post much anymore and if I do its only to certian folks,i just thought I needed to comment on this, Boone logan, andersen sweeney and just about every other minor league player we have Blows. We need a center fielder and the Sox love rowand and most likely he will sign with us for less money to play here. In addition, Boone Logan didn't exactly light he place up last year. furthermore anytime the sox start talking up one of there young players you know they are as good as gone. I would love to have rowand back, not because he is great just because he is way better than the crap we currently have. In addition maybe we can send gavin floyd back because he sucks too, he has no killer instinct. hope to see you around town or at the park sometime. take care.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:49 AM) That's the part I don't like. JR should fire anyone who mentions money publicly. The fans have stepped up, whether they are bandwagon or not. They supposedly have an incredible renewal rate with season tickets even with a 3rd place finish. You can't cry about the soaring contracts. You are going to eventually have to pay up or be the Pirates or Marlins. Other than that, I think this is a good deal. It will affect how KW operates the rest of the way because of the financial savings, which is sort of like the Pods/Lee trade and if Floyd and Gio develop, it will turn into a steal. also Dick, why trade your best centerfielder for vasquez if indeed you were not going for it. In 12 months it appears that the sox philosphy is changing. think of this, if everyone thought Mcarthy was all that, then put him in the rotation last year, keep young and now you have your centerfielder. I agree. but the philosphy was different last year, it was win the world series. That has now changed. This trade does not make us better. It does not fill any holes this year.

actually its the whole thinking process that is changing. We are acting like we don't have money again. I think that will backfire with fans.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:23 AM) Tell you what. If that 10M/year savings was used towards signing Crede and Buerhle long term, and we then had Fields and a young pitcher to deal for an outfielder... then I wouldn't be disappointed at all. they wont sign either.We will never sign a boras client, and Buerhle is as good as gone. So if they don't sign them, what do you do with the cash?

QUOTE(EvilJester99 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:12 AM) According to Mike North this morning, the Jays offered Wells straight up for Garcia but KW wanted Wells to sign a 4 yr extension and Wells refused....TIFWIW being that it is Mike North... lets say thats true, we are a far cry from vernon wells. We received nothing. Demoralizing, for a sox fan. What happened to win now? KW for the last three years said he wanted to win now. Appears thats gone. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 08:16 AM) So, we lost: The replaceable Freddy Garcia of the 86 MPH fastball and the seemingly unhappy with the team attitude... And we gained: Two young, talented pitchers (at least one of whom will probably become a major league caliber starter), AND 10 MILLION TO PLAY WITH. Seems pretty good to me. Like the deals made pre-2005, I am sure KW has plans for the cash. What can we get for 10 million? not much. In addition, I will assume they will use that money to pay crede and buerhle's raises. You will be dissapointed.

So the cubs beat writer Paul sullivan is on the score right now and just slammed the Sox on the garcia trade, saying they traded one of the best established pitchers on the trade market for two nothings. I agree.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:48 PM) If thats the case, than we deal Buehrle for Pelfrey and Heilman or Pelfrey & Milledge or swing him for Sanchez, Melky and someone else from the Yanks. Than you end up having Jose, Garland and Vaz in your rotation as the veteran 3 and than see what sticks with the other two knowing that Floyd, Bmac, Pelfrey are all potential top of the line rotation guys and behind that you'd have Gio/Broadway/Haeger (two of which are again at least middle of the rotation and in Gio's case potential #2). As long as Kenny spends that extra 20 million saved on finding a way to fill a couple holes we still have offensively I'd live with it. Your making the assupmtion that KW can get that for buerhle. he just might screw that up too.

QUOTE(greg775 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:44 PM) Why is the Trib propaganda? That writer is very fair, he's nothing like Moronotti. He said he asked KW flat out if all those starters would be out and he said yes. I wouldn't shoot the trib messenger. on top of that the writer is a sox fan and also covers the sox for baseball america and ESPN. He is not speculating he is telling us what KW is telling him. THis by the way flies in the face of what I heard on the radio today by Joe cowley who said JR gave KW an open checkbook. Cowley though kisses the sox ass.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:34 PM) Well, this article is downright scary. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines If KW isn't bluffing, things are about to get very ugly. So much for extending the deals on our starters. There you go, like I said, the rebuilding is starting now. Lets see how this affects tickets next year. back to the old plan.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:32 PM) Arrogance....but at least we'll have Sandy's veteran leadership behind home plate. that guy is another statue. I would rather have stewart and I hate prospects.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:30 PM) I just have seen too many people overrating Garcia. And, i'm somewhat banking on the 10 mil/prospects being used to do something else. Even if they aren't used to do that at all, replacing Garcia in McCarthy isn't a big deal IMO. Thanks Krush, I do agree that the replacement is no big deal , I just thought we could get a few better players, even if they were prospects from another team. If we don't get in the playoffs this year the team will be overhauled next year. TO me its starting early.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:26 PM) After hearing how the Sox watched an hour of tape and decided they could fix some of his flaws, it reminds me of this great saying "Don't worry, Coop can fix him". Coop watched Cotts pitch all year and apparently couldn't fix him. Buehrle pitched like crap and coop couldn't fix him. This coop thing is blown way out of proportion. Is he the only pitching coach capable of helping pitchers? brutal trade.

QUOTE(IlliniKrush @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:19 PM) Can we stop using number of wins to evaluate pitchers? Perhaps we can use more telling stats, like WHIP, ERA, etc. Or salary. Ok use those stats. take last years. Again use what you want but he still has not proven himself. Again, I wouldn't mind him being a fifth starter if we would have gotten a bit more in return to fill the other holes we have. I am not argueing Mcarthy, I am argueing the trade. Funny 9-10ths of the people here hate this trade but it seems as if people take exception with my comments.

QUOTE(whitesoxin @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:10 PM) We need Steff to quote that post at Soxfest this (next..?) year. i hav eno idea how old you are, but you are free to say what you want. You know more.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:07 PM) And you don't know that he wont win 18 games next season. Your right, lets trade dye and go with sweeney. maybe he can hit 40 hrs for us next year. My point is that garcia has a proven track record and Mcarthy does not, neither does the crap we got in return. Love Mcarthy all you want but he has proven nothing.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 11:04 PM) I don't understand people saying this trade makes us worse for next year or we're now no more than a 3rd place team, especially when those are the same people who think BMac belonged in the rotation. Now, they'll have BMac (the young stud as many of you put it) in the rotation and they'll be doing it cheaply. The rest of the positions are the same. Quite frankly, I felt if we kept last year's team, we'd still be one of the top, if not the top team in the majors. That's not being a homer, that's just being realistic. No one is doing anything over the top. We at the very least are making a lateral move with more trading chips/chips for the future. Well I said both but never said BMAC should be in the rotation. I am not impressed with his hanging change up at all. So I really don't see how this trade made us better. We took a potential 18-20 game winner out of the rotation and received two guys who may not contribute at all. Who will make up for 18 wins? In addition, I just cannot understand why we couldn't wait a bit longer and gotten more in return. Thats my issue. We still have the same holes we had yesterday. Nothing else has changed, and yes we are a third place team. Two other teams were better last year, and we did not yet get stronger this year.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:59 PM) Brandon will pitch better than Freddy did last season, now will he win 17 games? That depends on the offense. You don't know that. Its pure speculation with a young arm. I saw earlier in the htread that KW said Floyd was going to compete with mcarthy for the fifth spot. Lets say thats true, so we traded a number 2 for a potential number 5 with a 7 ERA in the NL. Lets say its false: then we traded a Number 2 for a AAA minor league starter who apparently needs a change of scenery and has been a career underachiever. Its laughable.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) Equal I would say. I was actually pleasantly surprised with McCarthy's value over the last month. Yes and another thing, Mcarthy has not proven a damn thing. He could pitch like crap next year. He most certainly won't win 18 games. Why does everyone think Mcarthy is so great. He has not proven anything. he had a few good starts two years ago. Rex Grossman had a few good starts this year. so what. Gio will be the replacement for cotts in the pen. Is he better than cotts? NO. So how are we better? we are not. Gavin floyd, what a joke.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) Equal I would say. I was actually pleasantly surprised with McCarthy's value over the last month. Yes and another thing, Mcarthy has not proven a damn thing. He could pitch like crap next year. He most certainly won't win 18 games. Why does everyone think Mcarthy is so great. He has not proven anything. he had a few good starts two years ago. Rex Grossman had a few good starts this year. so what. Gio will be the replacement for cotts in the pen. Is he better than cotts? NO. So how are we better? we are not. Gavin floyd, what a joke.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:41 PM) Equal I would say. I was actually pleasantly surprised with McCarthy's value over the last month. Yes and another thing, Mcarthy has not proven a damn thing. He could pitch like crap next year. He most certainly won't win 18 games. Why does everyone think Mcarthy is so great. He has not proven anything. he had a few good starts two years ago. Rex Grossman had a few good starts this year. so what. Gio will be the replacement for cotts in the pen. Is he better than cotts? NO. So how are we better? we are not. Gavin floyd, what a joke.

QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 10:29 PM) Yep...next year is the last year in our "window". I was really hoping we'd go all out. Not when he's pitching at Philly. Fathom I am truly upset that this trade couldn't wait. Surely there were other options. This is truly horrible. We are a third place team right now. Nothing more, and this trade does not make us better, as KW always contends he must do. Floyd is a major project, and truly will have a hard time in the AL if he can reach the majors again. I could care less about GIO. Thought he was overrated to begin with. To me he is nothing more than Jim parque. I simply cannot believe this is the best we could get. By the way I can't see KW running into this free agent market so I am sure he will use ht emoney to pay crede this year. I suppose the rebuilding has begun.

This is one of the worst trades I have actually seen. We get two minor leaguers who won't make it big time for a 17-20 game winner. You can keep your GIO. I am sure he will have a spot in our pen because he is a lefthander, but will crap down his pant leg for the next two years, and floyd will never make it. Horrible trade, but for all you guys who are in love with prospects you should be rejoicing in the fleecing and embarrassment of the winter meetings. makes me want to cancel the season tickets. Oh by the way we still have all the same holes we had yesterday.Gavin Floyd, what a joke. Wait until next year when we back up the truck. Gavin Floyd equals Tim redding.

For what its worth and I have not posted here in awhile. I believe Mike North is George Offmans source. Today Mike North (at around 6;10 this morning) reported that his sources and he says they are very reliable and credible within the sox org have claimed they are hot after Visquel (who is almost as old as I am but solves the leadoff spot) and Rowand. It is believed that Rowand is tops on their list as both KW and JR are big advocates. Take it for what it is. Quite frankly I would love it. I hate Andersen, always did, always will. Just reporting what I heard. Now I will just let you youngsters fight it out for how great andersen will become. I am sure you all know.

QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Nov 3, 2006 -> 05:03 PM) Meh. Yes fathom Jim and I wanted him last spring as a defensive replacement in the outfield. Nice to know Jim's legendary status is still alive. Good signing, low pay, young guy, with good defense and some pop in his bat. He can come in the late innings. We will need this as Andersens days could be with another team. I am sure all you youngsters with andersen on your jerseys just dropped your hooch. Thats my step out for the year. See you in next month. sorry for the response to the wrong guy. as I get older my site gets worse.