Texsox

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 02:21 PM) I post the facts as I research them and not bulls*** I think may or may not happen, be true, or make no sense whatsoever but am too bullheaded to back off without a shred of evidence. Don't be surprised. I'm every bit about being sure to provide as accurate information as I can find. You should try it sometime. Ya know.. rather than just ASSuming. And FTR, in none of the articles, including the one I linked above, does it specify that the Rangers are cutting a check to Alex or that they are paying the Yanks who are then passing the funds on. As I stated earlier I have no idea how the compensation payment structure works. What have you proved? That Alex will continue to get his money and the Rangers will continue to pay? I've agreed to that hours ago. There is a difference in posting facts and the conclusions that are drawn from those facts. Gee Steff, I just read the links you originally gave and posted a link from Sports Illustrated. I am glad you had the time to research and find that site. It isn't one I normally read, but I am certain it is credible. If they write the Rangers are paying A-Rod and not the Yankees that portion, I'll believe it. I wasn't assuming, I was pointing out that nowhere did it say the Yankees are obligated to offer the exact same compensation package to the third team that they received from the Rangers. Seemingly, and with great fanfare, you found a link that reads the Rangers are paying A-Rod and not the Yankees that portion of the contract. In that case the Yankees wouldn't have to send any money in any new deal since they never receive any. At least that was the part in bold and red. I wonder then why Alex's full contract was added to the Yankee payroll. If the Yankees never receive any of the compensation, and it is paid directly by the Rangers to Alex, as this link proves, wouldn't it be part of their payroll? I guess some things just can't be explained.

QUOTE(jackie hayes @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 01:46 PM) As to whether it could be renegotiated -- yes, of course, but it is VERY doubtful that MLB would accept any renegotiation that reduced the value of the money passed along. So if the team wanted more up front money, MLB would presumably insist that the total payments up front must have at least the same present value as the deferred payments would have. Because MLB must approve all trades, there would be no reason to include that language. If A-Rod was imjured and on his way to Vienna for surgery, that money would be too low. If ARod was wearing 5 MVP and World Series wings after winning a couple Triple Crowns, the average mlb salary rose to $12,000,000, then it would be too high. MLB will judge the trade on today's economic conditions, not a few years ago. Using the theory "The Rangers Pay The Team Alex Plays For" there would be no possibility of changing any of the money unless the Ranger's agree. Making your statement above incorrect. The Yankees traded Boone and Soriano to the Rangers for A-Rod, Wilson, and $67 million. That trade was agreed to by mlb. If A-Rod is traded again, it will have to pass all the same hurdles. All the same checks by the Union, MLB, etc. There seems to be an assumption here that the more cash that trades hands makes the deal easier to get passed by mlb. I'm not certain of that. I know it will be pretty damn tough to trade him, and if the Ranger money has to pass through unchanged, it will be made even more difficult, perhaps impossible. That money was based in part on the player's involved and their current stats. Now if the Yankees are forced to trade A-Rod and that exact amout of money sent in that exact manner for X. Good luck. QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 02:10 PM) Ta-friggin-da!!!! http://www.thebatt.com/media/storage/paper...www.thebatt.com Texas will pay $67 million of the $179 million left on Rodriguez's $252 million, 10-year contract, the most cash included in a trade in major league history. The Rangers get All-Star second baseman Alfonso Soriano and a player to be named - but they also will pay Rodriguez through 2025. The reports that say the Rangers will pay the Yankees are all wrong. thebatt.com is the only one to get the story correct. Thanks for finding that quote and being big enough to quote something that contradicted all your previous links that showed the Yankees getting paid. I must say I am surprised.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 12:06 PM) Its already been agreed upon. A portion of Arod's contract is paid by the Rangers each season. So now when the White Sox negotiate, they are basically talking about roughly 16 mill per year and at that point they can try and negotiate with the Yanks to include some more cash towards the deal. But the Rangers will be paying a few mill per year (whatever was originally agreed upon when the first trade was made) of Arod's contract with the Sox/Yanks or whoever picking up the 16 mill. The Rangers agreed to send money to the Yankees. We all agree on that. Some of that was deferred as was Alex's compensation. IYHO Is there any room for the next team to take the Ranger money under different terms than already agreed to between the Rangers and Yankees? For example, the next team may wish to have the money today to pay Alex's current contract. Could the Yankees agree to send a lower amount, sooner, to the new team. Or does the new team have to accept the Ranger's money the same way the Yankees are? Could the Yankees agree to send the same amount, only spread out over a longer period? Under the "Ranger's pay the team that Alex plays for" theory, unless the Ranger's would be willing to renegotiate, that would be impossible. I believe if the Union and MLB believe the new trade is fair, it could be done. Another reason I believe it could be more or less, is market conditions change and the deal should be evaluated based on today's market. Imagine of ARod lived to the hype and at a future date was now a 60/60 .375 guy with five MVP and World Series rings. He would be worth more than the $16 mil the Yankees are paying. In keeping with the fair trade theory, wouldn't it be unfair to include all the cash? When we see trades where a player plus cash is traded to another team, when is that money considered to be the new teams? Since the cash follows the money, if the Sox traded Crede for a Player plus $5 million, every subsequent trade would have to include cash with that player? They couldn't swap two players for that one and keep the money? However, there is an easy way around this even if the team has to accept the Ranger money as agreed. The Yankees send Alex to team 3, the Rangers send money to team 3 (why would the Rangers send money to the Yankees if Alex isn't playing there), and team 3 sends players and money to the Yankees. Or if the Rangers send money to the Yankees (again I guess that would be stupid), then team 3 could just send money back to the Yankees. Seems like a strange way to do it, but if the Ranger money has to go with the player, this would be a work around.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:56 AM) Clean your glasses because your view is obstructed. I said nothing about another team having to accept anything, stated the opposite several times actually. I said the money follows Alex. Regardless of how it gets there, it follows him. How it gets there is the entire debate here. You've said the Rangers pay the team Alex is playing for. So would there be new negotiations between the Rangers and that new team, or would the new team have to accept the terms that the Yankees and Rangers agreed to?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:22 AM) The Yankees and Rangers don't have anything more to agree on. Why do you keep saying they do? The deal for the $67 million was done. There is approx $22 million of that $67 million left to go. If ARod moves, the $22 million goes with him. Why on earth would the Rangers CONTINUE to pay the Yankees money that they agreed to compensate Alex for..? Yes, Alex will get paid regardless. And a TOTAL of $67 million of his pay will come from the Texas Rangers. It doesn't restrict the Yankees. It has nothing to do with the Yankees. It makes sense that the Rangers continue to pay the Yankees funds to compensate a contract for a player that no longer plays there. I wouldn't be laughing about making that claim if you are indeed serious. Here is the practical difference. In your view, whatever team takes ARod, has to accept the compensation that the Yankees and Rangers agreed on. Whatever term and conditions, deferrals, etc. would be required to stay the same. The Yankees and whomever they are negotiating with could not accept anything different. In my view, the Yankees continue to receive the compensation that they agreed on with the Rangers and can negotiate the terms and amounts of any cash included with the next team. The Rangers are writing the same check, yet for some reason, in your view, they insisted as part of the negotiations, that they only pay the team Alex is playing for. I can't see a single reason why. I can't imagine the Yankees insisting on it. QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:47 AM) Wha...??? No refund...???? Sorry. Couldn't resist. What is so funny is my argument states the Rangers would still owe the Yankees, your argument would be that since he is no longer playing for the Yankees the Rangers wouldn't have to pay if he isn't playing.

Steff, Why would the Rangers and Yankees agree to a deal where if ARod is traded, the exact amount that is remaining, has to go to the third team? It doesn't benefit anyone in the negotiations. The Rangers don't care anymore, they agreed to pay the money. The Yankees don't want to be restricted in any future deal ARod just wants to be paid. QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:11 AM) Ahh yes. That makes total sense. The Rangers will continue to pay the Yankees regardless of where Alex is playing. :wall It makes sense that they honor the trade. Even better, since they agreed to pay the Yankees towards ARod's contract, maybe they can get out of paying anything. Maybe they can get the player back as well. If Alex suffers a career ender, retires early, or similar, are the Rangers off the hook? According to your example of him not playing for the Yankees they would be. If the Yankees can negoatiate less cash in the next deal, will the Rangers get a refund? Steff, keep trying. The deal sends cash to the Yankees.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:04 AM) Kitty has been busy this morning.. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 11:06 AM) You've made this waaaaaaaaaay more complicated than what I meant. I just mean that the trade contract between the Yankees and the team A-Rod is going to will, no doubt, specify how much cash will or will not move between those two teams. Exactly. And it can be more or less than what the Rangers are already paying the Yankees. Agreed?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:45 AM) The Rangers agreed to pay $67 million dollars of his contract. I think to almost all of us that means that they will pay $67 million of the contract no matter who the middle man is. You've been saying they will pay whomever Alex is playing for. I've been saying the Rangers will pay the team they made the trade with, the Yankees.

QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:41 AM) Whatever trade may occur involving A-Rod, the other team will inevitably stipulate in the trade contract what happens to that cash, one way or the other. No lawyer worth their salt would leave that to chance. The next team will undoubtedly be getting cash from the Yankees (not Rangers). Do you think the language would be, Team 3 receives $29 million from the Yankees or Team 3 receives $3 million from the Yankees and the Ranger's check? I don't think the third team would give a crap about what the Yankee/Ranger deal is. They want the best deal they can negotiate from themselves. The third team may or may not like the terms that the Rangers/Yankees agreed on as far as deferments, etc. If the Yankees would like to mirror that, they of course are free to try. I believe the third team is free to request money faster, differed at a different interest rate, etc. If the Yankees are locked in to the next team taking exactly what the Rangers are paying and how, it will make it even harder to move ARod. I don't see why in negotiating the original trade that brought ARod to the Yankees, that the Rangers would care who they sent the money to and I don't see the Yankees wanting to be restricted in having to give up that exact amount if they traded him. ARod wouldn't care where the money is coming from to pay him his unworldly salary. So who would have insisted that the Rangers send the check to whomever Alex is playing for or that any future trades must involve that exact amount of compensation to the next team?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:30 AM) That is not at all what he is saying. And why do you keep insisting the Rangers have something to do with anything over the funds they agreed to pay...? The Rangers have no say except to write the check to the Yankees. You keep claiming the Ranger check follows ARod.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 10:19 AM) Players get traded all the time with the teams trading them agreeing to pick up part of the contract. They don't actually send a check to the player, they pay the team they trade with. Maybe ARod is a different circumstance and maybe the Rangers still pay him, but it appears they pay the Yankees. ARod is guaranteed his full salary, whether or not the money the Rangers are passing along to the Yankees is legally supposed to move with ARod if he is dealt, can't be determined by these articles. Either way, if the Yankees don't move Texas' money with ARod, no team will assume his entire contract, so they wouldn't be able to trade him if that is their intention. Exactly, they will have to send cash to get the deal done. The amount is negotaible. It could be more or less than what is left owed by the Rangers.

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:14 AM) Do it! And report back with who has more express powers. Also note that the Supreme Courts role is barely mentioned (and what is mentioned is not the Courts role today). I thought you said important? Having more powers doesn't make you more important.

The trade was for two players and cash. The Yankees took over responsibility for ARods contract in consideration of receiving those players and the cash. You are trading not only the player's talents but the contracts. Once the trade was finished, both sides assume the contracts for the players involved. Cash has been included in trades all the time. As I have stated over and over again, no matter what happens to ARod, the Rangers are responsible to make those payments to the Yankees. If, for example, ARod sufferes a career ending injury and an insurance company pays off, the Rangers still have to honor their end of the trade which was to send money and players to the Yankees. If the Yankees trade ARod, they are free to set any terms that can be agreed upon. That will probably involve cash. But the receiving team will still hold Alex's contract. He won't have three different contracts. One with the Rangers, one with the Yankees, and one with the new team. Again, and as plainly as possible. The Yankees are free to send as much or as little cash with ARod in a trade but they will continue to receive payments from the Rangers to complete the trade that was made a couple season's ago.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:47 AM) No Yes No No For the REMAINDER of the money owed to Alex, yes. If he ramains a Yankee, yes. If the Yankees are not responsible for 100% of the contract then why are the Rangers sending the money to the Yankees? Wouldn't they be sending it directly to Alex?

Texas is responsible to the Yankees for those payments. The Yankees are responsible to pay Alex. The next team will be responsible to pay Alex. Rangers send money to Yankees >> Yankees send money to new team. The amounts can be different. That is all I have said. How is that so hard to understand?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:12 AM) So if the Yanks trade him they KEEP the money?? They don't have to give it to ARod? Are you f***ing kidding me? And no, I couldn't be done with this glowing opportunity to point out some stupidity. Two different issues. Two different trades. Show me where I ever said that Alex would not receive his full contract? LOL, of course ARod receives his entire contract from the team that is employing him. If the Yankees trade him, the new team pays him. We all know that whomever he gets traded to will want cash along with ARod. The amount that the Yankees choose to include will be negotiated between those two teams. The Yankees are not obligated to send the exact amount or more of the Ranger money. The Yankees may, for example, only send $25 million and not the full $26.4 million remaining. The Yankees will continue to receive the Ranger money no matter what the Yankees do with ARod. Are you saying if the Yankees trade Alex that the Rangers don't have to pay the Yankees anymore? Remember the deal was for players and money. The players that went in the deal don't have to follow, why should the money? Let's make this simple. The Yankees are currently 100% responsible to make certain that Alex gets his money. Agree? They are receiving payments from the Rangers to compensate tem in part for that contract. Agree? The next team will also be 100% responsibile for Alex's contract. Agree? They will also, in all likelyhood be receiving money from the Yankees as part of the deal. Agree? The Yankees, IMHO, can send as little or as much as both teams agree on. Agree? The Rangers will continue to send payments to the Yankees. Agree?

I never thought about it before, but isn't it a little creepy that a celeb could be 100% against something in life, and whomever owns the rights to their likeness could totally change that? Perhaps a Linda McCartney ad for Beef, It's What's For Dinner?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 09:02 AM) Perhaps if you read the links provided, by yourself no less, you would. In any event. All done. I'm gonna stick with the facts on this one. All of the links mention the Rangers paying the Yankees, nowhere is it mentioned that if the Yankees trade him, that the money they are receiving, has to follow the contract. If I missed it in my careful reading of each link, then you are a better reader than me. Until I see a quote otherwise, I'll stand by my interpretation of the facts that the Yankees are free to include as little or as much cash into any ARod deal as both teams agree on. And Steff, you are never done. You'll either extract your revenge here or in another thread. I look forward to it.

Why don't we check out the Constitution instead?

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 08:40 AM) Sigh.... http://www.easttennessean.com/media/storag...ttennessean.com http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/base...kees/index.html And this is from the link you provided.. He is owed, in effect, $66.6 million by New York over the last four seasons of his record $252 million, 10-year contract. Rodriguez receives $95 million, with the Yankees getting $28.4 million from Texas to offset part of that. It's clear as day in black and white so exactly what part of the money comming from the Rangers do you not understand...? Steff, I love the sigh . . . I was thinking the same thing when I saw you replied. I don't understand if the Yankees are legally bound to send every penny with the contract or if they have some flexibility in sending less if that's what is in both teams best interest. A couple people believe that *all* that money *has* to follow the contract. I was just wondering if that is accurate, and why that language would be in there. I don't see where the Yankees are legally bound to pass on that money, which was my one and only point. And as I have mentioned numerous times, it is a very minor thing. More a technicality and an interesting nuance in baseball's biggest contract.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 07:56 AM) It's no theory, it's the facts. The $67 million from the Rangers follows him. It's got nothing to do with the Yankees. http://www.easttennessean.com/media/storag...ttennessean.com http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/base...kees/index.html I am getting errors on both of those links. The link I posted from SI states the money is paid to the Yankees. Doesn't really matter, I can see baseball handling the money different with Alex than other players. The contract is the reason why the Rangers had such a difficult time moving him.

Nuke, Mexico is forced, by US policies, to spend more of their GNP on fighting drug smuggling into the US, than the US. Because the US has a drug use problem, Mexico is racked in violence. The heavier drugs are produced in South American and smuggled through Mexico. The solutions involve South America and the US not the middlemen. Jenks, Rightful place as most important branch? Look up the definition of balance. You may remember a phrase called checks and balances, there isn't a more important branch. That is a cornerstone of our government. I am looking for a candidate with the charisma of Reagan, style counts as our chief cheerleader. A positive attitude will do more to fight the terrorist threats than trying to lure them all into a war in the middle east. I am looking for a candidate that understands balancing the budget, that we can't continue to spend trillions more than we take in. Buying votes is easy, and we've become accustomed to "helping the economy". One that understands some programs are investments. Education, childcare for the poor, health care, all are cost effective when they lead to better paying jobs, and it's easier to keep someone healthy then pay for disease. Someone with the courage to spend our tax dollars are what we need, not what is politically popular, like a symbolic fence. Someone that will see we need immigrant labor, and put together a meaningful immigration reform bill that allows businesses to hire the people they need and will not require a generation of our kids to become yardmen. Immigrants have always filled these jobs in every society, nature always provides the most efficient solutions. As far as Congress and the Senate, I have two different views. In the Senate, I look for visionaries and statesmen. People with high ideals that can offer long term solutions. Character over political views. The Senate should be the arena for great debate. In the congress I look for a worker, someone that will roll up their sleeve and get things done for today.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 25, 2006 -> 04:55 AM) And that has what to do with the money being paid by the Rangers which is whay the question was to start with... Good Morning With ARod, its all about the money and his huge contract. If, as some have theorized, the Rangers are required to pay whomever has ARod, and not necessarily the Yankees, then the Yankees have to package ARod + $28.4 million. If the Rangers are paying the Yankees, and the Yankees are free to offer less than that dollar amount, there is more flexibility for the Yankees to toss in talent (doubtful) or accept someone with a bad contract and the money could be lower. I could see negotiations where the dollar amount may be $26 mil with player A or $29 mil with player B. Making moving ARod a tad easier. As I mentioned earlier, it probably will not make a difference, it's one of those technicalities. My guess is the Yankees may have to add some of their money to the Ranger money to make it happen. Another reason I believe the team is obligated to pay the other team would be in the event of a career ending injury or retirement. I normally couldn't care less about a players contract, but this time of year, with no Sox baseball being played, it's all about trades and money.

QUOTE(Steff @ Oct 24, 2006 -> 06:28 PM) I don't understand why you are tossing in what the Yanks may do. maybe because ARod is a Yankee and they are the ones trading him?

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Oct 24, 2006 -> 04:33 PM) Yep, It will at the very least be the same. The Yanks could obviously throw in additional cash to make Arod more lucrative on the trade market (but that is all up to negotiations between the Yanks and whoever there trade partner is). I think it would depend on who the Yankees receive in return. While it would seem nit piking to some, having the flexibility to adjust the dollars based on the talent involved will make the deal much easier to make. Imagine if you had to offer the exact combination of players that would make that exact cash work out. In the end, as I mentioned before, whether the Rangers are sending money to the Yankees or to A-Rod anything could be worked out. ARod's original deal and Boras' ability to sell a player coming off an injury, and unavailable for a workout, to a top 10 contract, proves that.