bigruss

to the poster that has had my back the past few weeks! Happy birthday!

Just because Coop likes him doesnt mean we didnt overpay for him. Jackson has been bad this year, there is no denying that, and with the price tag he has you dont give up the only SP prospect that you have that can make an impact on your big league club this year (we have other pitchers, but no one else is close to Hudson's level). Even if Jackson succeeds, we're stuck with a $54 million starting rotation with no clear favorites to replace one of those expensive starters. I would like Jackson if we kept Hudson, because then we still ahve the flexibility to trade a starter in the offseason while having Hudson be the cheap yet potentially good 5th starter.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 07:40 AM) Without knowing your campus, I'd call it highly likely that your health center has some sort of setup for counseling/depression issues, because they're going to likely see that a lot. Any school that doesn't have that setup is crazy. That's who I'd try to get them to. It's also noteable that the schools I've been to will also allow and encourage anonymous "referrals", such that, if you think an acquaintance of yours has a problem but you don't want them knowing it was you that referred them, you can tell them "this person needs your help but I don't want them to know that it was me" and they'll find a way to get in touch with them. That's a fairly common situation as well...their main goal is to get themselves in touch with the people that need to be in touch with them before something really bad happens, and they usually won't care how the contact starts. Yea, our campus has a rule that if anyone calls and says that you have shown any symptoms of appearing suicidal that they are mandated to going to 3 sessions with our school suicide specialst (basically a psychiatrist devoted fulltime to these issues). Ill have to see if their schools have such a program. I know that they dont live on their campus so i dont know how that would affect them (they live in an apartment in Chicago, and all 3 that live there go to different schools. Two of them are ones who have admitted to being depressed, one of the them suicidal).

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 2, 2010 -> 08:39 AM) And yet there are 160K new subscribers to android phones each day. I know a few people at work with the new iphone and tehy are pretty upset by it, they just arent taht impressed compared to everyone around them with droids.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 07:48 PM) Hard to say. Anything you can do to get them in the hands of a person who's actually qualified to deal with it. That's the general emotional shock treatment recommendation the Red Cross suggested to us...whatever we say, it's likely to wind up being the wrong thing in the case of a genuinely depressed, suicidal level person. We were basically trained to intervene if possible with the main goal being to pass the person upstairs to someone with training to deal with it. Yea Im an RA on campus and that is what I would do if I saw anything like that there because we have a Suicide Prevention/Awareness team, but I dont know any resources here, guess Ill have to look it up.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 07:25 PM) Really, the only thing I can say is that if I were in that position, I'd have a tough time saying that I was capable of handling it. I'd seek outside help, and I'd try to have the other people seek outside help as well. I basically told them my views, and it helped a few of them, one basically had already known he wouldnt do it because of his family and friends, but there was one who was completely sincere still. I had nothing else to say and felt terrible because of that. I mean, how do you get help for someone like that?

QUOTE (Sonik22 @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 06:54 PM) I have a couple friends that have been openly depressed with me, one that actually wrote a will and planned how he was going to kill himself as well. All around my age, 20, as well. Its hard to really talk to them about it when you aren't depressed yourself but I've had depressing times in my life so I know how that feels. Whenever even the slightest thought of suicide occurred I would realize how completely dumb and selfish it is. Also being afraid of death is another reason I never actually considered it. And I conveyed that same thought to them when they told me they were depressed. You accomplish nothing by killing yourself. Also being 20 years old you have so much life to live still. They just have to remember all the people they care about and all the things that make them happy in life and realize its not worth it to just throw it all away because they feel worthless. They need to know how many people care about them and how suicide would hurt so many people. Yeah I have many of the same thoughts as you, death scares the s*** out of me (that finality of it is what creeps me out). Some of my friends openly admitted that the only reason they havent is because of family and friends and the impact that it would of have on them. But some other friends were stating how they dont really care what others think and that it is their life. I just couldnt think of a response really because it was obvious that he knew it was a selfish act and was ok with it. Some of these guys were telling me that they wanted to kill themselves by 18, and I was just shocked. Now they are saying by 27, because by then their best moments of their lives would have been lived. I think many of these thoughts are stemming from them being unhappy with the direction their lives are taking (some of them are doing extremely well in school, but havent found direction yet) and they question if their life will really improve or ever be what they want it to be. I just didnt know how to respond to many of the ideas they brought up, because although you can express your opinions about being able to change your life, they dont really see your thinking. I also tried to tell them that you have your whole life to die, and you may as well take advantage of what you have now and see how it turns out before you give up on it. And it's not like these guys are college drop outs or hardcore druggies, they all go to college and grew up in stable households.

QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 1, 2010 -> 01:19 PM) Daniel Hudson looking good so far for Arizona. 28 strikes, 13 calls thru 3 innings. We're gonna regret that trade when Hudson ends up with similar numbers to EJax and were stuck with the price tag.

Anybody ever deal with depression on here? Ive had yet another friend openly admit that they are depressed to me, and during that same night 3 of my closest friends admitted that they have seriously considered suicide and gave really elaborate plans. I try to give the best advice I can to them, but its just too overwhelming now. I have no idea what is going on, it seems like every friend of mine that I have grown up with is depressed and suicidal. I dont know if it's just the age that they are at (20) or what, but man it is freaking me out. When Im on campus I dont see it as much even though I have a job on campus that puts me in the frontline of suicide watch, and so now Im wondering jsut how wide spread this feeling is. Did alot of you have friends who thought like this? Did you think like this?

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:53 PM) I bet if you compared 2005 offense (after Thomas went down) to the 2010 version, there's not much of a difference....if so, it's pretty negligible. I'm not conceding anything yet. 2005 this, 2005 that. Ill remember 2005 as some of the best moments in my young life, but to compare any team to that team is just flat out stupid. The game has changed, the division has changed, the team has changed, and yo ucant just say, "well our offense sucked then so it can suck now" and expect to have the same results.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 31, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) You're still not explaining to us why the Giants or Rays didn't part with any of their 19 5-star prospects to acquire Dunn, since they have so much depth that they can deal them away without flinching... Because the Sox didnt have enough viable replacements for guys like Konerko after this season, that KW was forced to hold onto a guy like Viciedo. If we had more pieces we couldve gotten the trade done with other pieces or we wouldve had other players to replace Konerko, etc. Other teams didnt trade for Dunn because they didnt have the stones to do it, simple as that. They had the pieces, but didnt want to give them up. Different organizational philosophies.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:59 PM) Hopefully the Sox arent just trading on past stats, but instead on future potential. I mean Gavin Floyd "sucked" but hes done allright. Matt "sucked" but with a little work turned it around. Loaiza, Contreras, etc. etc. You can work with some one who has dominant stuff. Difference though is that we didnt trade a young, cheap, talented pitcher for those guys. We also werent taking on $8.5 million which really adds to that risk.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:56 PM) Hudson reminds me of B-Mac. A guy that was beloved by this board, but who I never was a fan of. I could be very wrong, but Hudson just was meh to me. Ive always loved Jackson's stuff, its just a matter of whether or not he can harness it. Almost every time id take the guy with more dominant stuff. The 8mil is the only reason we are getting Jackson this cheap. Besides the fact that hes sucked.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:51 PM) unless he pitches well in his 10 or whatever starts with the Sox And then he is still the pitcher that 4 teams have traded since 2008 and comes with a big salary.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:47 PM) Next year the Sox could trade Jackson. Hes still young and has talent. That is why im not so concerned about the impact of the salary next year. Right, keep trading him until he makes his way around the league. If he doesnt turn it around his value will be next to nothing with that salary he has next season.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) Jax was not Good nor great last year. Edwin Jackson put up a spectacular set of numbers in the first half of last season based on putting up a .249 BABIP. His BABIP, as we always say it does, regressed towards his career mean of .315 in the 2nd half. In the first half of last season he put up an ERA around 2.5, in the 2nd half he put up an ERA of 5.07. Edwin Jackson's terrible 2nd half was key to the Twins taking the division from the Tigers last year. Hell, he was on the mound for Game 162 and the White Sox shelled him. He's putting up an ERA >5 this season in the National League for a reason. Besides June, hes been atrocious. April/March 1 2 .333 6.67 5 5 0 0 0 0 28.1 36 21 21 3 9 0 17 2 0 1 126 1.588 5.4 1.89 May 2 4 .333 5.58 6 6 0 0 0 0 40.1 38 25 25 7 16 1 43 1 0 6 169 1.339 9.6 2.69 June 2 0 1.000 2.11 5 5 0 1 1 0 38.1 29 10 9 0 20 0 25 1 0 4 159 1.278 5.9 1.25 July 1 4 .200 7.24 5 5 0 0 0 0 27.1 38 24 22 3 15 1 19 1 0 2 133 1.939 6.3 1.27

QUOTE (docsox24 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:45 PM) I think this is too big of an assumption to make. We have no idea what other players were offered for Hudson or who KW went after in a Hudson deal. Perhaps the bigger names than Jackson required another player to the deal that KW didn't want to give up. Or perhaps whoever those other trade targets were those teams were driving up the price or liked other teams offers more. Was Hudson offered for Haren or Oswalt? Heck I don't know. But just because Jackson is who we got for Hudson in no way means that we traded him for his peak value. If you are right and this is the case, I would have preferred to keep Hudson and let him pitch in the bigs and see how good he becomes. Very well said.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:43 PM) Trust me I'm not oozing my pants over this trade, but at the same time I'm not incredibly devastated over the loss of Daniel Hudson as many others seem to be. He became highly overvalued around these parts. Its not the loss of Hudson Im all that worried about, its the fact we dont ahve a cheap young starter to fill out our rotation anymore and we just keep adding to a payroll that will force key contributors out during teh offseason without having viable replacements for them.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:41 PM) Not only that, but most believed that the Nats preferred Jackson and his salary to Hudson. What does that say about Hudson? Why do multiple teams prefer overpaid Action Jackson to him? There must be a reason and its not just that every GM is stupid. At this point, I would have zero confidence in claims by the Dbacks and Nats in terms of their quality of scouting.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) Jackson's salary made him cheaper on the trade market, just like Peavy (and Rios although he was a waiver). So when they traded for Jackson, they were getting him cheap in terms of prospects because of the fact that his play did not match his salary. The Sox want to make noise this year. They are not a team where people show up to games when they are middling. No one showed up the first half of the season, it was sad. The Sox need to make the playoffs so that they can continue to draw fans. If the Sox had 8mil to spend and Hudson and this is all they can get, it should say how much Hudson was worth. (Edit) The White Sox almost always get some sort of cash back in a trade for a salary this high. There are some outliers, but the Sox have generally paid more in spects to get more money back. So what happens when the Sox cant afford to keep some combination of AJ, Paulie, Putz, Jenks, etc because they are paying a mediocre-bad starter in EJax? Then all of a sudden they have holes they cant fill, and were back to middling.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:36 PM) I'm not sure what this means, but I think I disagree. He is the best prospect that we had to call up and start for us this year.

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:33 PM) I think Jackson is a better pitcher right now than Hudson and believe he has more potential than Hudson. The 8.5 million isn't for me to worry about. I dont think that at all. He's has one good month this season, and that was in June, besides that hes been absolutely terrible.

QUOTE (PlaySumFnJurny @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:31 PM) Imo, 2010 Edwin Jackson > 2010 Daniel Hudson. By a good margin. Now go get Fat Elvis (and $) and call it a deadline. Look at EJax's stats this year, and his historical second halves. Hes been pretty bad.

QUOTE (Soxbadger @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:30 PM) The Sox usually dont take on this much salary. They must feel that Jackson is a huge improvement over Hudson. The 8mil being irrelevant is in terms of valuing the trade for this year. In the overall scope the money matters, but when you are looking at the trade exclusively for this season, the money for next year isnt relevant. You cant just do that though. Do you really think the Sox only looked at Peavy's and Rio's salary when deciding to go get them?

QUOTE (kjshoe04 @ Jul 30, 2010 -> 03:29 PM) I'm with you on this one. I'd rather have Jackson out there this year than Hudson. It's not like there is a salary cap. I know we have a limit but it isn't set in stone and maybe they are willing to go to the high end of the range because of this deal. You really think that a struggling, terrible second half pitcher, is worth the $8.5 million upgrade while losing your youngest, cheapest, most impactful pitcher?