JUGGERNAUT

Take your sarcastic applause & shove it where the Sun don't shine. I suppose you're one of those Koney lovers. Stats don't lie: OPS /mo Frank: 916, 863, 1146, 838, 708 Pauly: 690, 502, 272, 1043, 807 C Lee: 839, 823, 726, 885, 984 Magg: 849, 855, 899, 1245, 839 CEve: 1163, 893, 662, 667, 1120 Frank's numbers for the 5 months are as good or better than the rest. Period.

For those of you who are confused Thomas stays for as long as he wants until the last yr. Then the SOX have a 3.5MIL buyout option. 2004: Frank can exercise a 6MIL option, or decline it. If the SOX want him after he declines it will cost them an extra 2MIL. If Frank still wants out after he declines it will cost him 2MIL to buyout the contract. Why isn't any one in chat?

With 276 posts not a chance. But I do beleive in the value of Sagarin ratings.

KW had no problem signing Lee to an extention? Well he didnt have a problem signing Fould to a deal either only to trade him the very next year. And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Paying Maggs 15MIL on a team with a 55MIL payroll is assenine. Since the SOX showed no willingness to pay $$$ for Alomar or Everett this year, I think it's clear that the team will once again open 2004 with a 60MIL cap. Allocating 25+% of that cap to Maggs is assenine. Are these the stats of a 15MIL player? Apr : 849 OPS May : 855 OPS Jun : 899 OPS Jul : 1245 OPS Aug : 839 OPS Not in my book. Here's Manny Ramirez' #'s: Apr : 981 OPS May : 925 OPS Jun : 1139 OPS Jul : 1113 OPS Aug : 891 OPS Please stop throwing around stats like you know what you're talking about. Anyways, it's asinine, not assenine or whatever. Magg's cumulative stats: .320-22-75 OBP .386 SLG .561 OPS .947 Plays a solid right field, only average speed which makes him a 4 tool hitter. Advances runner from 2nd, no outs to 3rd a goo percentage of the time. Zone rating is 91%, range factor is 2.36 -- Now, let's look at Manny: .318-29-85 OBP .418 SLG .576 OPS .994 Fairly similar numbers, but Ramirez is just plain AWFUL in left. No speed whatsoever. Zone rating is a retchid 78%, RF is 1.79. Ramirez is paid 20 million dollars a year to hit in a loaded lineup, and Maggs will be paid 14 million to play a solid all-around game. Ordonez is the better player, hands down. Any one who knows the game of baseball knows that cumulative stats don't equal wins. The SOX are experts in that game. Koney has been nothing more than a streak hitter most of his career. Yet he has 2 all-star months a yr that make his cum stats look decent. A 15 MIL/yr player is one who can maintain a 1000+ OPS 4/6 months. Period. Maggs has not done that once in his career. Sure his cum stats are impressive because like Koney he has 2 MONSTER months a year. Let me put it this way. The goal for the WHITE SOX every year should be to win 90+ wins. That's what it takes to contend in the AL. Unless Maggs production is worth 23 wins a yr, the team can't afford him to eat up 25% of the payroll. Another thing you're not looking at it, is the value you can get in return for Maggs. No one disputes that Maggs is the best player on the SOX & may be one of the best RF's in the game. But the economic reality is that the SOX have never shown a willingness to sign or keep such players.

Who on this planet respects Manuel? Would you?

You are all wrong. Frank holds all the cards. http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/thestate/spor...all/4685046.htm After 2003, Thomas can exercise a $6 million option to play for the Sox in 2004. If he declines, the Sox can exercise an $8 million option and Thomas stays. But Thomas can also buy out the option (2MIL) and become a free agent, giving him veto power for one year only. After 2004, Thomas can exercise an option that pays him $8 million. If he declines, the Sox can pick it up at $11 million and Thomas must stay. After 2005, Thomas can exercise an option paying him $10 million, and if he declines, the Sox can pick it up at $12 million or else opt for a $3.5 million buyout. That gives the Sox veto power for the final year, at which point Thomas will be nearly 38 years old. The contract also includes bonuses of up to $2 million for finishing in the top 10 in Most Valuable Player voting. There is also a clause calling for Thomas to revoke his no-trade rights as a 10-and-5 player (10 years in the majors, five years with the same team) if the Sox deal him to one of a handful of teams for which he's willing to play. There is no deferred money and no diminished-skills clause, and the Sox are loaning Thomas $1 million. So as you can see Thomas can stay pretty much as long as he wants.

Manuel is a F-up. Frank avgs an 1100+ OPS at 1B & a 900+ OPS at DH over the last 4 yrs. In 2003 he's avg'g 1200+ OPS at 1B & 833+ OPS at DH. NOW HOW DUMB CAN YOU BE NOT TO PLAY HIM AT 1B WHEN HE ASKS YOU TO BEFORE THE ROAD TRIP BEGAN ?

Um...perhaps 13 years of stats supporting that idea have something to do with it? Duh. Yeah..... 13 years of stats heavily weighted towards the beginning to middle of Frank's career. With exception of Frank's "blip" in 2000, the Frank of '99, '02, and '03 (leaving '01 out totally because of the triceps injury) is a far cry from the Frank that everyone here seems to think will return to pre-'99 form for the rest of '03 if only we play him at first base. What's your point? We have to look at the front of his career because that's where he played the most at 1B. But since you want to discount that then we will look at recent yrs: 2003: 1B 1212 OPS, DH 833 OPS 2002: 1B 1029 OPS, DH 833 OPS 2001: on DL most of the year 2002: 1B 1193 OPS, DH 1023 OPS 00-02: 1B 1109 OPS, DH 922 OPS Recent history says the same thing: if you play Frank at 1B most of the year he's a 1100 OPS player. Only our F'g moron manager ignores a near 400 OPS swing in 2003 & a near 200 OPS swing over the last 4 yrs.

I left out an important part : # of players at each level. To best understand RPG & NPERA visit usatoday.com & look under Sagarin Ratings under baseball. But here's the skinny: RPG is the runs per game avg for the team when a certain player is in the lineup. What I've done is add up the RPG for each player & each level & then divide by the number of players in that level. That's the effective RPG for the team for players in that level. As you can see, the 41/7 RPG for SOX everyday players is pretty good.

You bet I do. The Juggernaut of the ALC right now is CLE. They've won 7/10 led my Milton Bradley's 321 BA. He's the best player in the ALC right now. They've won 5/7 vs MIN. They've got 8 vs MIN, 6 vs KC, & 3 vs the SOX. This should help the SOX.

CLE will factor big time in this race. They are playing much better of late. 2/3 vs SEA, 3/4 vs ANA, & 3/4 @ MIN, 1/2 vs TB. They've won 5/7 vs MIN in the 2nd 1/2. Remaining games vs CLE: MIN: 8 KCR: 6 SOX: 3 Yet another reason not to give up the ship!

The best in the AL over these yrs have been : NYY, BOS, MIN, OAK, SEA luck boys: ANA, KC, SOX How do the SOX measure up this yr? RPG 376+ ab: BOS 52, MIN 42.5, OAK 42, CHW 41, SEA 40, NYY 39.1, KC 37, The numbers themselves are not important. The gap betw teams is. MIN leads the ALC in offensive production by everyday players. RPG 122-375 ab: NNY 34, KC 29, CHW 25.6, SEA 22.8, MIN 17.1, BOS 14.5, OAK 5.5 KC leads the ALC in offensive production by everyday players w considerable DL time or part-time players. OAK has a very weak bench. The NYY have an awesome bench. RPG 30-122 ab: MIN 34, OAK 17, NYY 15.4, KC 10, SEA 8.8, CHW 6, BOS 4.35, MIN dominates this category & it could explain why they've surged of late. This is mostly a reflection of call-ups since the all-star break. ALC Edge in lineup production: CHW NPERA 121+ ip: KC 3.54, OAK 11.8, CHW 13.8, MIN 15.8, SEA 17.4, NYY 17.5, BOS 18.7, KC only has 1 starter in this list, so their number is an aberation. The rest of the list shows the true ranking of starting pitchers. NPERA 40-120: SEA 10.1, OAK 12.8, NYY 13.1, CHW 18, MIN 21, BOS 33, KC 51 This is a measure of failed starters & everyday relievers. Despite our agony the CHW lead the ALC. This is also KC's biggest weakness. ALC Edge in pitching: CHW Don't despair. The numbers still show the CHW having the edge.

KW had no problem signing Lee to an extention? Well he didnt have a problem signing Fould to a deal either only to trade him the very next year. And Everet and Lee are keepers, but Maggs is tradeable??????????? Better watch how you use the word "assenine" Paying Maggs 15MIL on a team with a 55MIL payroll is assenine. Since the SOX showed no willingness to pay $$$ for Alomar or Everett this year, I think it's clear that the team will once again open 2004 with a 60MIL cap. Allocating 25+% of that cap to Maggs is assenine. Are these the stats of a 15MIL player? Apr : 849 OPS May : 855 OPS Jun : 899 OPS Jul : 1245 OPS Aug : 839 OPS Not in my book. Here's Manny Ramirez' #'s: Apr : 981 OPS May : 925 OPS Jun : 1139 OPS Jul : 1113 OPS Aug : 891 OPS

Manuel F'd this road trip up. There was talk of Frank at 1B by both the moron & Frank himself as a need to keep Frank in the game. We'on the F'g 6th gm now! Still no F'g Frank at 1B. FIRE THAT s***-HOLE WITH THE CLIP BOARD!

He's making 4.2mil this yr based on his 2000+2001 #'s: 182 R, 176RBI His 2002+2003 #'s: 155 R, 164RBI His AL RPG ranking in those yrs: 2K3: 38 2K2: 25 2K1: 45 2K0: 41 He hasn't had a stellar year to command the big bucks. He should be signable for 15-16/3.

STOP the assenine talk of C LEE being gone! 1) KW had no problem signing him to a 6mil deal for the past 2 yrs. C LEE has never shown to be greedy. KW should be able to sign him to 15mil/3 yr. 2) He leads the team in RBI : 84 better than 10% more than Maggs. 3) He's 2nd on the team in R : 73. 3 shy of Maggs. 4) He's 2nd on the team in TB: 22 shy of Maggs. 5th) He's ranked 38th in RPG (Sagarin) in the AL. Maggs is ranked 9th. I mention this because C LEE still has what I call sleeper stats at non marquee prices. This gives KW leverage to keep Lee's price down but still hold on to the promise that Lee has. Now I don't know what price Everett will command. FA can expect to be worse than last yr because of depressed revenue. There will be far fewer players in the $$$ game this off-season. But I will put it this way: Lee at 15/3 is a keeper. Everett at 15/3 is a keeper. Maggs at 15/1 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him. Konerko at 24/3 is tradeable. Either you re-negotiate the contract or you trade him.

SANDY ALOMAR JR He seems to be getting the big hits of late.

Placing bag over head. :puke

Magglio Ordonez

FRANK THOMAS That s***-HOLE of a mgr we have better play him at 1B. A F'g 3 gm losing streak - you have to do all you can to break it.

Bottom line: We have the best pitching in the division. That's an indisputable fact. Good pitching will shut down good hitting every time. On paper we have one of the most feared lineups in the league. However; this year in the division it's #3. So, my advice to the brainless (JM): Put Frank at 1B tonight & try to break the losing streak. The odds still rest in our favor to win the division.

I love this thread !!!!! Keep it up! :fthecubs :puke :sosasucks -> Springsteen rocking at the Cell on Wed!

Will they weep or party when I am on vacation? Me wonder Who am I kidding they always party here!

That was a HUGE victory for KC! Winning 12 - 9 vs the Yanks! Any loss in confidence they encurred from the SOX series has been swept away. They're in position now to take 2/3 from the Evil Empire. If they do that, they're going to be hard to overcome. It continues to shape up like every game vs the Twinks & KC the rest of the way is a playoff game for the SOX. The difference in sched strength demands it.

1) Who will win the series (CHW/ANA/Split) (2 points)? CHW 2) Will Frank Thomas have at least 4 hits (Y/N) (2 points)? Y 3) How many errors will the Sox make (4 points)? 1/b] 4) Who will lead the Sox in extra-base hits (4 points)? CLee 5) How many homeruns will the Sox hit (5 points)? 8 6) How many baserunners will Mark Buehrle allow (5 points)? 8 7) How many games ahead or behind will the Sox be in the AL Central (4 points)? 1 gm up 8) Will Neal Cotts get a win (Y/N) (2 points)? Y 9) Will the Sox have any ten-hit games (Y/N)(2 points)? Y 10) Will Gary Glover allow an earned run (Y/N) (2 points)? Y TIEBREAKER: Cotts pc = 93