JUGGERNAUT

If I'm wrong let me know but doesn't this decision simply shift the power from the Fed to the States on this issue? There is nothing in the ruling or in Federal law that I'm aware that would prevent states from passing laws to protect private property rights against eminent domain. If the people in Conn feel strongly about this then they can contact their local congressman & voice their opinion & their intent to vote them out of office if something isn't done. The power rightfully resides with the elected representatives of the citizens of Conn. From that perspective it's not a grievous decision. As an environmentalist the ramifications are disastrous. I've not read the particulars but I can see where this decision can be used to invoke eminent domain to skirt EPA laws & guidelines. Consider all of the property in America owned & operated by the Federal government. Can states now use eminent domain to annex Federal property?

I don't have a lot of time to write today but I wanted to share the links with new & old Sox fans. Good reads today. I'll be there today! Wish me luck on getting a HR ball in what looks to be a World Series bound year. Telander said it. Not I. http://www.suntimes.com/index/sox.html http://www.dailysouthtown.com/index/dspro.html http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...eball/whitesox/ http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp I'll write more later. GO 50-22 2005 CHICAGO WHITE SOX !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing would make this weekend any better than a against Prior. Sweeet!

I think it's a good idea .. the giant thread. Keeping track of the others is too much work. Randa? If he's willing to ride the pen yes. If he can play 1B he'll ride it less. Chavez? If he's available yes. His 3 #'s say he'll have a good 2nd half. It's a pipedream though because he's not available. Moyer? I like the idea of adding a LHSP to the rotation. Yes. Lilly? I think he can fill a good dual purpose role as a spot starter & LH in the pen. Few of the other names available can do that. Yes. Oswalt? He's not available, but if you want to dream then Yes. Pettite? see Moyer. Clemens? Do you have to ask? YES! Castilla? No. Crede will outperform him in the 2nd half. I have no doubts. Guardado? Do you have to ask? YES! Schmidt? Ulcer time. He's strong against the middle of NL lineups. That's a good sign he will do very well in the AL. His 03, 04 numbers are real so the only risk appears to be health related to 05. His last 2 starts (16IP, 0R, 15K's) would suggest he is NOT damaged goods. He started strong (4/5 good/quality starts), & then 6 bad starts surrounding 15 day DL time. He will cost no less than $14-15M for the remainder of this year & next. He will cost no less than BMac, Anderson, & Sweeney. Maybe. If I really think BAL will get him if we don't I'm leaning towards Yes. It pretty much means we either jump to a $90M payroll next year or we say goodbye to Konerko & trade Contreras/El Duque. Omar? If he's available strictly as a salary dump/swap costing no more than Uribe & PTBNL then yes.

Yes.

Still #4 vs #26 on the road is a significant difference. 2005 wouldn't figure in this decision but 2004 would. the gap was probably wider with the 2003 World Champions touring the NL in 2004. I agree Willis is a pretty charismatic player. Likewise he's an MVP candidate on the Marlins whereas Garland is probably #2 behind Mark.

There's a lot in this thread so let me take it issue by issue: 1) I too believe the Astro's will be buyers. Like the White Sox they have been able to maintain a productive farm system for many years. One of the best. They have chips to deal with. They need a LF & LH arm in the pen most of all. They will not want Everett back because they need someone who can defend their ill-designed OF the rest of the year. Everett can't do that. Perhaps Moises Alou can. 2) I would not rule out Pettite to the White Sox. It's not out of the question for him to waive his no-trade clause to move from the NLC to the ALC to play for the best team in MLB. Even if Hou is able to get the LF they desperately need & make a run at it the NL has a dozen teams in contention for that WC. The odds of making the post are slim. Whereas if the WhiteSox have 60 wins before the break are all but guranteed. When you consider the White Sox have their current rotation signed for 2006 it's unlikely this is a 1 yr fling. That may be enough to entice Pettite. 3) NL vs AL trades for pitchers. The main reason why on avg it's a full run difference in transition from NL to AL is because on avg spots 6-9 in NL lineups produce .200 OPS less than the AL. That's a significant difference! The guys that do best going from the NL to the AL are the ones who have low OOP against the top & middle of the orders. Not just the bottom. I've not looked at Schmidt's #'s in detail so I don't know but I will say that I am concerned over his transition of being an ace in SF & #4 with the White Sox. Yes it does matter. Not to the fan, but to the pitcher. There is a major difference in being a #1/#2 prestige & pride wise than a #3/#4. How many ace's have been traded in mid-season to fill a spot in the rear of the rotation? I can't recall many. If you were Schmidt wouldn't you expect to the #2 guy on this staff? Wouldn't you want to follow Buehrle (the most consistent quality starter in the last 4 yrs)? Even worse how would you feel following Contreras? I know there's that theory that if we don't get him a WC/div contender in the AL will & then will have to face him. That's a tough call. There is some logic in playing keep away. It's why GM's get ulcers when their team contends. I've already made an argument backing Lilly with what he's accomplished against the WC/div contenders we face this year. He can be had for a 1/10th of the cost in $ commitments & probably a 1/4th of the cost in talent vs Schmidt. Schmidt's numbers: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/spli...0&type=pitching http://sports.espn.go.com/mlbhist/players/...ching&year=2005 Strong numbers. Look at what he's done against the middle of lineups. The odds are good he's going to do well in the AL. His 03, 04 numbers are unreal .. it's just his 05 that are suspect. He started out the year with 4/5 good/quality starts. Then 2 bad starts before going on the DL. Then 4 bad starts in a row followed by 2 dominant ones (16IP, 0R, 15K's). He'll cost you $5M towards 2005 & then you can spend $10.5 in 2006 to keep him or $3M to buy him out. You don't trade for an ace like Schmidt & let him walk unless he fails to perform. I don't see that happening. This all but seals Koney's fate because there is no why they are signing him to a $50/5 deal if they trade for Schmidt. Without Koney you have to re-sign Thomas. There's no way you'll pick up the option on Frank but you can work a new deal with him & use the $3M buyout as part of it. Trading for Schmidt means depleting the farm system. No other way. Anderson, Sweeney, Anderson would be the core. It's giving me an ulcer just thinking about it. It's like putting the house down as collateral at a chance to strike gold in Vegas. As a fantasy GM I don't think I can do it.

When considering ESPN the Magazine you have to look at road attendance. It's a national magazine after all. Marlins #4 33,678/gm vs White Sox #24 26,955/gm Though we are 4.5 gms up on STL they have a better RBI differential than us in both RON & CL&L sits. I think you could make the argument they are a better team than our White Sox but lady luck is on our side this year. Hopefully the White Sox home attendance will weaken the upper deck theory. I'm curious as to what the fans sitting up there on a regular basis think of it now. Can we get past the steep slope so that next year we can avg 30K+/gm? I don't think it will take winning a WS to get there. We just have to win the ALCS.

IMO, the general statistics don't tell you much about the success of this team. The two key statistics are RON, & CL&L. I never paid attention to them as much as this year. They might just be the most important team stats in MLB. RON 05 CWS 281RBI .347O .459S vs Opp 209RBI .309O .360S : +72 RBI CLL 05 CWS 062RBI .349O .431S vs Opp 052RBI .238A .317O : +10 RBI RON 04 CWS 684RBI .348O .471S vs Opp 667RBI .351O .460S : +17 RBI CLL 04 CWS 119RBI .339O .445S vs Opp 112RBI .338O .446S : +07 RBI Compare this with last yr's Twins: RON 04 MIN 618RBI .339O .430S vs Opp 583RBI .333O .414S : +35 RBI CLL 04 MIN 125RBI .340O .397S vs Opp 119RBI .325O.327S : +06 RBI Our opponent in the WS this year? RON 05 STL 309RBI .357O .439S vs Opp 235RBI .331O .382S : +74 RBI CLL 05 STL 042RBI .320O .358S vs Opp 027RBI .285O .301S : +15 RBI We lead STL by 4.5 gms for the best record in MLB & yet they hold the edge in RBI's in both RON & CL&L. They might be better than us but we've got lady luck on our side. No comparison would be complete today w/out the Cub: RON CUB 05 270RBI .343O .469S vs Opp 254RBI .348O .413S : +16 RBI CLL CUB 05 048RBI .333O .426S vs Opp 049RBI .344O .380S : -1 RBI Contenders? Who are they kidding?

They are still upset after losing the radio contract. No that's not it. Are there more Marlin fans in the nation than there are White Sox fans? Maybe. After all they have 2 World Championships in the last decade. They were underdogs in both years & it brought mega ratings. Of course that's very short-sighted. Baby-face Jon is a poster boy player. If FOX were in the same shoes as ESPN MLB-wise Jon would never be left alone.

I was too young to remember much about the game itself but I loved the exploding scoreboard when every they hit a HR. Fisk was my favorite player in those days. He looked bigger than life to me.

Trades are funny. Was the GM of Milw lying in that article? If not then KW messed up. Maybe he ought to look at the Sag ratings more before making these trades .. he might learn something. According to the Lee article the Brewer's GM was reluctant to give up Vizc because he was eyeing him to replace Kolb as the closer. So it sounds like we could have gotten Wise+Adams+Pods for Lee. The Sag ratings for 2004 point to Wise & Adams having better years than Vizc. Considering their price we could have saved .75 mil as well. Oh well .. Hermy & Politte have worked out real well. You can't really complain. Maybe Vizc will turn it around.

I think the key to the article is one of the last few lines .. Happy to be THE Brewer. Happy to be batting cleanup. Now matter how you spin the bottle on the White Sox he had no chance of doing that on this team. If we don't re-sign Koney & let Frank go that would certainly change & he might want to come back. But now that Carlos has gotten a taste of being the Big man in the lineup he's not going to choose a team unless he can be that man for them. For better or worse we choose that man to be Koney. We'll just have to hope he can put up a .900 OPS in the post season.

Crede is the starting 3B. He simply doesn't add enough defensively to push Crede to the bench. Crede has the edge in terms of 2nd half numbers over the past 3 yrs. Randa only fits if there is room for him on the bench to backup 1B. He would essentially take Gload's promised spot. Bench: Widger, Everett, Harris, Ozuna, Randa - you have to keep Ozuna & Harris for backups in the middle IF & speed.

Exactly! Lilly could easily fit the mold of a Rusch on this team in terms of what he's given the Cubs the last year & half. Probably even more so because Lilly has experience in relief both in the regular & post season. When you have a chance to get 1 player who can fill two holes his value goes up. Lilly adds another LH to the pen that can start if El Duque can't.

Schmidt's is having a weak year & has never pitched regularly against AL lineups. Lilly is proven success in that dept. Schmidt is still a health risk & a question mark. Just look at Pavano & Johnson for how hard it is for fireballers to make the transition. Chemistry wise Lilly will do whatever is asked of him because he's done that his whole career. He's not a big headed ego. Schmidt has been a #1 for most of his career. I don't know how he will sit as #4/#5 nor how he'll take to sharing the spot with El Duque. If we are more concerned about chemistry than fortifying weakness Lilly is a far lower risk in that dept.

The more I look at our needs & what a player will cost us I see Lilly as the answer. He's got good numbers in his first 30 pitches over his career & in 2005 to suggest a strong arm in the pen. He's not a great starter but definitely one that will keep you in games (like El Duque). He's perfect for the dual job of relief & spot starts. You can do a LOT worse than sharing the 4th between Lilly & El Duque. If Schmidt's last start was impressive would Lilly's 14IP, 2R, 16K's vs STL & BAL not be any less impressive? I would say that's impressive for a guy who would be 4th in the White Sox rotation. Lilly's last 4 starts have been impressive: 3.46E, 26IP, 9W, 19K .208BAA Against WC/div contenders: BAL .216BAA, .733OOP BOS .250BAA, .789OOP CLE .240BAA, .677OOP DET .229BAA, .647OOP LAA .229BAA, .721OOP MIN .244BAA, .789OOP NYY .247BAA, .790OOP That's against the 2005 players on those teams & there's no real damage there. Not one contender is hitting better than .250 vs him. My vote is for Lilly. He'll learn quickly just from watching Mark pitch. He could be a big surprise lift for the White Sox.

I did think about the Rangers, but seeing they too are 3.5 gb of the WC, & 4.5 gb in the ALW their an obvious choice for any of the starters on Houston. Their biggest weakness remains SP. A 4 Young, Chris TEX R 3.06NE 82.2IP 70K .668OPS A 13 Rogers, Kenny TEX L 3.44NE 98.2IP 44K .681OPS Astacio is better than his era, but Park & Drese are losers. Texas would be foolish to waste a solid 1-2 & one of the best lineups in MLB on a weak rotation. If Houston is planning a firesale they should be dealing with their upstate rivals.

The problem I have with the first post is that it leaves out both CLE & DET. In the WC race MIN 2 gb, CLE 3.5 gb, DET 4.5 gb. In terms of who has the $ to spend to make a push they all do. MIN is 28% ahead of last year's attendance, CLE has been one of the most profitable franchises in MLB the last decade & Illich is the Tom Hicks of the ALC. 2005 A-33 Schmidt, Jason SFG R 3.86NPERA 76.1IP 74K .753OOP You can't ignore his 74K's in 76.1IP. Both CLE & DET feature two strong LHers in their rotation. DET is in greater need of a RHSP than CLE is. If I had to bet on which team will get Schmidt I'd say it's DET. They already have the lineup to score runs. If they add Schmidt to that rotation in that ball park when Maggs returns they might be unbeatable & a probable WC team. Money is no object to Illich so I'd put him as the favorite to land Schmidt. The problem is you can't play keep away this year. If you trade the farm to land Schmidt then DET can snag Oswalt. So getting Schmidt for that reason makes no sense. If I'm KW & I'm willing to spend that kind of $ then Pettite & not Schmidt is my target. Which of the two will mean greater revenue to the Astros in 2006 (Clemens or Pettite)? The answer is obvious. Is Roger not going to play in 2006 after the year he's having in 2005? Please. Pettite can probably be had for less than what it will cost to get Schmidt. His post-season experience & AL experience is of no lesser value than El Duque. Will he wave his no trade clause to go to the CWS? Why not? The CWS is the best team in baseball in the same time zone as his family lives today. It's less of an adjustment to move from Houston to Chicago than back to the east coast. 05 A-15 Pettitte, Andy HOU L 3.08NPERA 90.2IP 66K .689OOP 04 B-23 Pettitte, Andy HOU L 2.94NPERA 83.0IP 79K .665OOP 03 A-12 Pettitte, Andy NYY L 3.36NPERA 208.1 180K If Clemens is available then you would be stupid not to trade the farm to get him. The guy looks stronger than ever & a good bet for starting another 2 yrs at least. But I don't see any logic for the Astros in dealing him. His salary is easily paid for by the attendance & media dollars he brings in for the team. You are talking about a player who might just be the biggest marquee name in the game today. The guy is happy living & playing for Houston. They are not as far from contending again as people think. A few more bats & they have everything a contending team has (solid SP, solid BP). Trading Clemens would be stupid. If I were running HOU I would trade Pettitte over Oswalt. Oswalt is one of the finest young RHers in the game today. Building for 2006 with Clemens, Oswalt, & Backe is a good plan. You just need to buy another LHSP to go with Rodriquez & their set. HOU stands 7 gb in the NL WC race. That's certainly not insurmountable given what they did last year. They need a LF badly & a LH in their pen. They might be willing to spend Pettitte to get it. That's not a bad move on their part. The White Sox certainly have what they need. Both in the majors & on the farm.

The Twins do not have the starting staff this year to turn it on in the 2nd half. I'm not talking about Radke. He's sure to put his cape on like he always does after the break. But look at Lohse, Mays, & Silva: Twins: ALC 10 gb, WC 2 gb A-28 Silva, Carlos MIN R 3.90NPERA, 87.1IP, 28K's .747OOP A-42 Lohse, Kyle MIN R 4.60NPERA, 72.2IP, 35K's .812OOP A-45 Mays, Joe MIN R 4.83NPERA, 81.0IP, 26K's, .818OOP All of them are woefully low in K's. To illustrate the point .. B-76 Hernandez, Orlando CHW R 5.18NPERA 62.2IP 42K's .828OOP Look at the difference in innings & then K's. El Duque isn't even close to pitching his best stuff this year. It's doubtful 2 of the 3 will don a cape with Radke after the break. If they have any shot at winning the WC or overtaking the Sox that's exactly what will need to happen. Their only other alternative is to trade for a starter. CLE: ALC 11.5 gb, 3.5 gb CLE on the other hand looks formidable if they can get on a hitting streak. A-11 Westbrook, Jake CLE R 3.34NPERA 90.2IP 50K's .682OOP A-15 Lee, Cliff CLE L 3.46NPERA 90.2IP 68K's .702OOP A-23 Millwood, Kevin CLE R 3.76NPERA 70.0 57K's .731OOP A-24 Sabathia, C.C. CLE L 3.76NPERA 83.0 58K's .717OOP B-60 Elarton, Scott CLE R 4.30NPERA 67.2 40K's .781OOP Westbrook & CC are capable of jumping into the top 10 after the break. If that happens they will have a better rotation than ours because of the two dominant lefties. Forget the division CLE should be thinking WC because they have the pitching to compete in the post season. It's the White Sox job to do everything in their power to prevent that from happening. DET: ALC 12.5 gb, WC 4.5 gb A-10 Bonderman, Jeremy DET R 3.32NPERA, 102.2IP 82K .681OOP A-12 Johnson, Jason DET R 3.39NPERA 91.0IP 44K .684OOP A-17 Robertson, Nate DET L 3.59NPERA 86.0IP 46K .699OOP A-35 Maroth, Mike DET L 4.18NPERA 92.1IP 54K .766OOP B-80 Ledezma, Wil DET L 5.84NPERA 49.2IP 30K .894OOP DET has the $ to burn to go out & get another quality starter. With Maggs returning in the 2nd half this team could go on a tear. They destroyed Mays & Lohse in MIN this week & finish with Johnson vs Silva tonight. A good shot at a sweep. They've got a tough schedule to close out the break. But if they do well against it their confidence will be sky high. Especially if they win a series vs us at home. If you had to ask which team is likely to be both < 10 gb & in 2nd place in the ALC before the break it would be hard not to say the Tiggers. If they make a deal for a solid starter (Oswalt) this team has the offense to shift into a higher gear & make up ground quickly. They've got 11 games left against us to do it with. Ozzie is right in keeping the team firmly grounded in the need to look at every game as if the two teams competing are even.

http://www.dailysouthtown.com/southtown/co...ki/x23-lad1.htm It's a real nice piece I think you'll enjoy. The paragraph on Wood vs Buehrle is the best. It's important on these boards to have some threads we can just sit back & talk about how great our team is. We don't have to be like Ozzie & the players. We can talk about it! I think it's important for all Sox fans to enjoy this season. Don't let fear of a 2nd half surge by the Twins or the post-season take away from your enjoyment now. You're team is on pace to win 60 ball games by the break. Unreal! I mentioned that back in May .. I didn't even believe it was possible! In my family we are celebrating .. when the Sox become the first in MLB to win 50 this year the whole family is going out for dinner. Not just the immediate family but the grandparents as well. We talked about it & we hope to do the same thing for win 75 & win 100. Yep. You heard that right. We expect the Sox to win at least 100 this year. This is a season for the ages & whether we win it all or not it's still will go down as one of the most enjoyable to be a part of. The White Sox must do everything in their power to make Buehrle a White Sox for life .. even if it means overpaying him. As long as you have that consistent #1 guy leading your team you are a contender. You just need a little luck & a little magic to have a shot at the World Series. There is no question in my mind he is the MVP of this team. His style has been so successful that the coaches & the staff itself are emulating it. This piece is so good .. I think I'll read it again

2005 47th Lilly, Ted TOR L 4.86NPERA, 71IP, 57Ks 2004 12th Lilly, Ted TOR L 3.37NPERA 197.1IP, 168K's 2003 16th Lilly, Ted OAK L 3.60NPERA 178.1IP, 147K's Spot-Starter/Relief 2002 27th Lilly, Ted OAK L 3.17NPERA 100.0IP 77K's 2005 Pitches 01-15 .208A .269O .354S .623OOP Pitches 16-30 .245A .295O .453S .748OOP 2002-2005 Pitches 01-15 .237A .311O .395S .706OOP Pitches 16-30 .199A .286O .338S .624OOP If you view the move as getting a quality LHP for spot-starts & the pen it's not a bad pickup. Lilly GB/FB 05 0.87, 04 0.80, 03 0.85 - comparable to El Duque's career Pick him up now & it will cost about $2M. Batista will probably cost $3M. 05 B-27th Batista, Miguel TOR R 2.50NPERA, 31.1IP, 18K's 04 A-31st Batista, Miguel TOR R 4.26NPERA, 198.2IP, 104K's 03 A-22nd Batista, Miguel ARI R 3.45NPERA, 193.1IP, 142K's 02 A-13th Batista, Miguel ARI R 3.33NPERA, 184.2IP, 112K's 2005 Pitches 1-15 .221A .267O .337S .604OOP Pitches 16-30 .227A .280O .273S .553OOP 2002-2005 Pitches 1-15 .288A .347O .464S .811OOP Pitches 16-30 .251A .338O .375S .713OOP There is risk in both of these guys. How will Batista do if called upon to spot start? Those 1-15 #'s for his past 3 yrs are not encouraging but he has a much better GB/FB ratio than Lilly. In Lilly's case his 1-15 are good for both his 3 yr & 2005 but his GB/FB is more like El Duque. How will he fare at the Cell? If Lilly is pitching well right now ... 14IP, 2R, 16K's vs STL & BAL ... I would choose him over Batista because a good LHP is a greater need on the White Sox than a strong RHP. Batista has not started one game this year. Pen makeup: RHP: Hermy, Politte, Shingo, Vizcaino, BMac LHP: Cotts, Marte Shingo is really coming on strong now that he is throwing more of a better fast ball. Before he was using it as an out pitch & now it's his main pitch. He uses the frisbee & other stuff to make the fast ball look much faster. Before he would lead with the frisbee. Now he's not afraid to lead with the fastball just off the zone. He's also take a nod from Buehlre & going upstairs more. I had every confidence that a guy with his experience would make the adjustments & he has. That gives the White Sox 3 quality RH's in the pen. Marte still looks shaky. He just doesn't have the control he had 2 yrs ago. Adding Lilly to the pen would be a good move. As for spot starts, Hermy is the best qualified but unless you plan on swinging a deal for a Guardado type closer you can't use him as both a spot-starter & closer. There's no good choice after him once BMac goes back. So Lilly would be a good choice for spot starts. As for what it will cost you, Lilly will certainly cost less in $, & probably less in talent. Of course he has 3 more quality starts before the break that could change.

REG req'd now. Bummer. Realistically when your teams falls behind more games then you have left against the leader it's over. The Twins still have some reason to hope. But if they go on a losing streak right now & the Sox win 60 before the break it's time for the fat lady.

But doesn't it make more sense for a profitable team to eat some of the $ in the contracts for the older players & deal them? Oswalt is one of the best young starters in MLB. I just don't see the logic for a team playing in the 4th/5th biggest market that is drawing 32K+/gm to deal him. I would imagine Pettite or Clemens would go first.

If Randa is willing to accept a bench role I would be interested in acquiring him. The Sox do have starters to spare so if that is what Cincy is asking we can certainly meet that price.

Why are you convinced they want to trade Oswalt? Guardado is my first choice but Lidge would make a fine addition as well. It's expected around the league for the bullpen to change for contenders. It's like a revolving door. It won't upset chemistry too much if at all. Dealing Viz away & picking up Lidge/Guardado is a smart move.