witesoxfan

Because there aren't a lot of high upside guys in the system and those that are high upside have struggled. Erik Johnson is considered to be the 2nd or 3rd best prospect in the system and he's projected to be a middle of the rotation starting pitcher. Beyond that, minor league rankings are for the birds anyways.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 10:51 AM) That's impressive, wite. And disturbing. Hey, what can I say, I like the baseball

That's the thing, the Sox are aware of the state of the team, but you go into every season as if you are going to compete. If the Sox are going to compete, they are going to need Dunn's bat in the lineup.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 10:18 AM) Has there been a catcher in the history of major league baseball who skipped both Double & Triple A? You're telling me that this guy is ready to handle a major league pitching staff? You guys may have your reasoning, but you're not seeing the forest. I'm down with Stan Bahnsen's plan. It's Double A, or back to the Nationals. It depends on what he looks like at the plate. Jesus Flores made the exact same transition between the Mets and Nationals and he didn't completely embarrass himself.

You guys are arguing semantics. At the end of the day, Thome was OK with being traded. Peavy was OK with being traded. Let it go.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 09:08 AM) “I’m pretty abreast of what’s going on, and Rick does an incredible job of staying in contact with us,’’ said Peavy, who is said to be wanted by the Red Sox, Cardinals, Athletics and probably more. “Just being professional, letting us know kind of how things stand. If something does happen, I’m not going to be caught off-guard by it. “If you get moved now, you’re going to a contender. If I got moved in the winter, you’d be going to a team that was hoping to upgrade and be a contender. I’ve said I want to be on a winning team. I’ve said I hope that’s here. If I get moved, I hope it’s to a team that’s in the thick of things. That’s all you can ask for.’’ July 24th www.suntimes.com/sports Jake Peavy really is one of my favorite players of the past 10-15 years. He has the absolute best attitude you could ever hope for out of an athlete.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 08:37 AM) I wonder if any other MLB club has a message board with 43 pages dedicated to the intricacies and nuances of adding Erwin Santana or Jimenez? After their team's GM has come out and said he won't be signing either one.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 07:52 AM) Hi, Confused. Ohhhh we gots a comedian over here yous guys!

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 10:03 PM) I'm assuming he means John Danks, but his response is still off. I'm fully aware. Saying that signing a pitcher now allows you to move John Danks is like the Angels saying signing Jose Abreu allows them to move Albert Pujols. Yeah, I guess, maybe, on some weird level that's true, but you aren't just going to move a guy like that.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) Santana affords them the ability to deal Danks. The Sox bringing in Santana has no effect on Jordan Danks' roster spot. The Sox couldn't give his brother away at this point.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:54 PM) Still could have gone wherever he wanted. And he did.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) Rick was willing to spend $120 million to bring in another starter and said it is likely he will be drafting one with the 3rd pick. Apparently he does not agree with your assessment about the starting pitching. For the 2014 season I bet he does, which is why he isn't going to sign anyone else to a $13 million a year contract. Also, if you don't see the difference between Masahiro Tanaka and the combo of Jimenez and Santana, then let me remind you that Tanaka is 25 and has the best splitter in the world while Jimenez is 30 and inconsistent as hell and Santana is 31 and inconsistent as hell. You can always improve. For all intents and purposes, the White Sox have enough depth at this stage in the game.

If you want my opinions on guys I think the Sox should bring in, then I'm looking at guys like Jason Hammel, Scott Baker, Tommy Hanson, James McDonald, and Jeff Niemann. These guys have upside, don't require a long-term or large yearly guaranteed, they can be traded to a winner or re-signed to another contract, or they can be released and nothing is lost.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:47 PM) Free agent could have gone wherever he wanted. How many times has his situation occurred and why does something have to be common to do it? As was pointed out, Peavy was never a free agent. He signed prior to filing and becoming an unrestricted free agent. Something has to be common to show that there's actually precedent for doing it. It's an absolutely classless and obtuse to sign a guy to a 4 year contract only to trade him 3 months into it. This isn't XBox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:41 PM) J F P Really, so the White Sox brought Jake Peavy from outside the organization on a 3-4 year contract and then traded him 3 months later. Oh wait, no.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:38 PM) If you thought last year was tough to go through . . . You haven't seen anything like a team that struggles to score runs and lacks rotational depth. Those 200 innings that PeavySantiago pitched last season have to made up by someone(s). The Sox could be unwatchable by June with this rotation. The White Sox have 7 starting pitchers. Their depth going into the season is perfectly fine. They could use more throughout the organization, whether by acquisition or development. And people are going to enjoy this year more, even if the team loses 100 games. They have clearly taken steps in the right direction and it's going to be a young team. Honestly, with just Garcia in the lineup instead of Rios, I enjoyed watching games more after July 31st. With all the young talent they have, I think this year will go by relatively quickly.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:28 PM) Ok, so about 80 more PA for Avi hitting 3rd vs. 7th then. Safe to figure that's pretty accurate.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) There's no point in reading your post beyond this. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/santaer01.shtml Look at his career performance. Factor in the ups with the downs and and he's at least a solid pitcher. His 2008, 2010, 2011, and 2013 seasons were very good and should bring back a high return on the trade market. If he pitches up to previous levels he will bring back a quality return. Please look at the numbers next time. Know who else was good in 2008? JI JIM THOME

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 04:11 PM) God forbid Paulino goes to the pen. Lindstrom can be traded to clear the way for Webb if need be. Can't make an omelet without breaking a couple eggs. You're sitting atop Hyperbole Mountain right now with the craziness and absurdity etc etc etc especially when your main arguments are Paulino's future and the loss of a second round pick You are obviously not reading a thing then. The Sox have broken a ton of eggs thus far. They don't need to break anymore. I don't give a s*** about Paulino personally, but he is a guy that can be dealt at the deadline or re-signed to an extension. Using him in the bullpen - where his career ERA is like over 9 - is a waste of his ability. You may as well see what you can do with him. I have said 37 times that I don't give two s***s about losing the 2nd round pick, but I don't want Santana and Jimenez for a multitude of reasons (those of which I'm not going to mention again because if I've posted them 28 times, what the hell good is a 29th when you're just going to ignore it anyways?). The fact that you do lose a 2nd round pick if you sign Santana or Jimenez is the icing on the stay-the-hell-away cake. (need I mention that the 2nd round pick would go to a division rival? Nah, f*** it) Thankfully, Rick Hahn said the Sox aren't going to do this and he's smart and wants to see what he has in his young pitchers and he's going to stay very far away from pitchers in their 30s because they won't be with the Sox when they're actually good again.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:58 PM) He doesn't have the profile to hit 3rd yet. He should be around the 7th spot in a typical lineup, but for the lineup I constructed, I was trying to get him as many PA as I could while getting him to get used to that future role. Does anyone have the numbers on typically how many extra PA you get from batting in one spot in the lineup versus another spot? I would guess the different from the 3rd hole to the 7th hole would be around 40-50 PA? Over the course of a season, a guy will typically get 19 more plate appearances than the person he hits in front of.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:50 PM) ???? I'm saying to offer Santana a little bit better than what Kazmir got, similar to Nolasco or less, etc. Santana is a better pitcher with better stuff than all these 4s and 5s that signed this offseason, and if we can get him at a similar price then yes, do it, absolutely. Yes, you keep your vets until your youngsters prove they need to play in the Majors. It's called insurance, stability, etc. You're making these young guys prove they deserve to be there and not just tossing them into the fire. And you only trade 1 or 2 of Danks/Santana if/when the young guys push them out. You make the deal at that point because you feel you can replace that production within a year or so of MLB development time through a 6-year pre-arb player. You save money and get back talent in return. Net positive. Yes, you give up the 2nd round pick. What part of this are you missing? That 2nd rounder isn't nearly as likely to bring the Sox value in the same way a proven MLB starter with Santana's ability can. What don't you get? No, that's nothing like the Mariners. The Mariners??? Really? They relied on prospects forever, not mixing in vets, and then they went on a splurge after years of failure. I'm not sure how using Santana to plug a hole and then spinning him off for value later is somehow Mariners like or somehow detrimental to the long-term success of an organization or how it would in any way jeopardize a rebuilding effort. Right now, the Sox rotation features: -3 guys who are making 7 (or 8) digit figures -1 guy who has put up great numbers over the past 2 years, and -1 guy who is the top pitching prospect in the system and one of the more highly thought of pitchers in all of minor league baseball. Who are you kicking out of the rotation to bring in Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez? Paulino to the bullpen? Say good bye to Daniel Webb then. Johnson? No point in having him repeat AAA when he destroyed it last year. It's an absolutely absurd, ridiculous, crazy idea to bring in another starting pitcher. Thank f*** Rick Hahn is the GM.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:40 PM) I get that, but things do change. Santana's asking price was way above what it is now, how do we know he is rethinking this stuff? He also said earlier on there would be no commitment made even approaching Abreu $$$ and yet only a couple months later he's throwing $100M+ at Tanaka. He said this on Friday. Things are not going to change between now and Opening Day. He's not bringing either of them in.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) I don't think that's legal under the CBA anyway. Peavy sort of counts though, although he was still Sox property when neogitations were taking place even if the contract was new. Signing a guy and then trading him after 1-2 years is more likely. Part of the benefit of bringing in Santana would be to provide extra time for Beck and insurance should things go backwards with Danks, Johnson, etc. We'd definitely have to keep him 1 year, and then if Danks rebounds and we trade him, we'd probably have to keep Santana for a second year at least. Peavy signed a 2 year deal with a vesting option for the 3rd. You are also saying it may be illegal. So, here's what I have -Sign 30 year old pitcher offering more than any other team will give. -Keep said player for 1-2 years while White Sox have no idea what they have in multiple young pitchers. -Trade said player after same time period because the Sox will totally not be in a position to compete in 2016 and giving up that asset makes the most sense. -Still give up 2nd round pick and prevent White Sox from getting any actual additional prospect during the rebuilding years. Is that about the sum of your arguments? I sure hope so, because that looks like something the f***ing Mariners would do.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:34 PM) Hahn is pretty direct about all this stuff. He's not going to be lying to free agents to get out of NTC and so on. I'm just saying Hahn should make an offer that benefits the Sox with the full understanding that he may be traded during his contract at some point. If he doesn't want to sign the deal then fine, but you can make the effort. Santana has lost a lot of leverage already, he probably can't afford to get too picky. Hahn has already commented on this topic. He said "We are not signing any free agent that results in the White Sox losing a draft pick." That's the message he sent to the agents of Ubaldo Jimenez, Ervin Santana, Kendrys Morales, and Nelson Cruz.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 27, 2014 -> 03:33 PM) The only answer is the Marlins. They haven't even done that. Buehrle doesn't work. They had Buehrle for a full season and then dealt him. I can't think of a single player that has ever been signed to a 4 year contract that was dealt 3-4 months into the first year.