witesoxfan

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:16 AM) That's not the point. The point is raising the talent level, and increasing assets that can be used or make other assets available to be used to acquire assets in areas of need. For example, there is no secret the Sox could use and need a catcher. It isn't like one is just going to fall into their lap. If they have enough surplus to trade 2 or 3 pitchers to get one, it probably will be the way to go. Again, I'm not so sure Santana or Jimenez is the answer, but adding talent, no matter what position, makes a lot of sense when your talent level is lacking. No, Dick, that IS the point. If those moves don't help the Sox win more games or put them in the playoffs over the next 2 years, then you use the young players you have on the team and see what they are capable of. Jimenez and Santana are going to cost the team 4 years at $10+ million per year. That is money they can't take back and spend at another time. That's the level of contract that kept the Cubs from making a more appropriate offer for Tanaka that could have landed him in Chicago. I have no problem adding talent, but it has to be reasonable. A $40+ million contract at this stage with the talent left on the board just is not reasonable. They don't HAVE to go get a catcher at this point. They have 3-4 guys they can use. It's likely that all 4 fail, but if they can find something reasonable, then it saves them money and/or in the future.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:13 AM) The Sox are not building through the draft, if they were they would have traded for players in AA and below. Holy s***, I don't even I mean, what in the You can't be serious? You can't even believe the s*** that comes out of your fingers. The Sox are building by bringing in young players and talent. That's through trade, drafting, waivers, or free agency. Belisario still has some team control and is rather young. Scott Downs is on a 1 year deal. Those are your "exceptions." For the record, they HAVE brought in players below AA. In fact, 3 of the 4 players they acquired for Peavy were below the AA level.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) Ok, let me know when you find a quote of me saying Sherman lacks intelligence, or else we can continue to go in circles for no reason. I'm using the simple power of deduction here. -At one point, you felt he was an idiot -An idiot is a stupid person -A stupid person lacks intelligence I didn't say Richard Sherman is a jerk or a dick, but if you implied that I felt that way, I would have no way of disagreeing because jerk or dick are synonyms of the term douche or douchebag.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 11:08 AM) Sorry I don't think every player on the white sox are going to be great. Paulino and Reinzio are 5th starters/long relievers. And singing any pitcher takes 0 innings away from Johnson. I don't think so either, but you have to play them to determine how good they are. Even you can agree with that. If Joe Schmoe is the #1 prospect in the game, and he plays in AAA his entire career, how many homers did he hit in the majors?

To Dick and FutureIsNear: Honest question - how many games do you believe the Sox will win this year without Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez? How many do you think they'd win with either of them? Next honest question - how many games do you believe the Sox will win NEXT year without Ervin Santana or Ubaldo Jimenez? How many do you think they'd win with either of them?

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 10:56 AM) Couldn't have said it better. Keep waiting on 2nd round picks and the fringe prospects that are currently in our system to develop and next thing you know it's 5 years later and "next year is the year" becomes the team motto. I'm glad to see you say you couldn't have said it better because it's a terrible argument. THE SOX HAVE ASSETS TO USE. You have to see what the value of them are - because that value is undetermined at this point - before you can evaluate yourself further.

Frankly, I couldn't give two f***s about the 2nd round pick. If Tanaka would have cost a 2nd rounder, I wouldn't have cared. When you start talking about bringing in aging pitchers who are either already in the process of or will be declining soon, then I invoke it because #1 - you are receiving a product that will depreciate quickly while appreciating in cost #2 - you lose additional assets in the acquisition of said property Would you buy a car with 120,000 miles on it, expecting to pay $300 a month the first year, $400 the second year, and $500 the third year while giving up a piece of your land and expect to come out ahead in the deal?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 10:49 AM) Frankly, I don't know if Garcia will pan out, but I would rather acquire him at his development stage than the unknown in the second round. I'm not saying I would rush out and sign Santana or Jimenez, but picking up a veteran pitcher at this stage makes a lot of sense. Increase the inventory. Money aside, banking your future on future 2nd round picks is a bigger longshot than banking on Santana or Jimenez being All Stars. This speeds up the rebuild. You want to play it close to the vest, you wind up like the Cubs who are now saying to their fans their rebuild might not be complete until next decade. This SLOWS DOWN the rebuild. If you sign a veteran starter, you have no idea what Erik Johnson or Andre Rienzo or Felipe Paulino or any other young starter does because you have to play the guy making the money. It's ironic that you mention the Cubs playing it "close to the vest," yet a big part of why their rebuild has taken this long is because they signed Edwin Jackson to a 4 year deal which is EXACTLY what you want the Sox to do.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) I can completely make up #'s and state broad generalizations that support my argument too..... Most pitchers don't start to break down until closer to 35, and in fact, have a good amount of success in their early 30's because they have fully learned how to be a pitcher rather than a thrower. I agree that Santana maintaining a 3.2 ERA is unrealistic, but between 3.5-4.2 is extremely realistic. So is the fact that he's most likely going to pitch 200+ innings and deep into games. You know what, I'm tired of arguing this point. Signing Ervin Santana would be a waste of money and draft pick I'm really glad the White Sox aren't going to do it. No, most pitchers do not start breaking down at age 35. Most pitchers ARE broken down at age 35. They typically begin around the age of 30-31. Pitchers that don't start breaking down until 35 are freaks of natures or roided up beasts. Ervin Santana is not going to sign for $44 million. He wanted $100 million prior to the offseason and it's certainly possible he can still get $60 million over 4 years. That's $15 million a year for a starter who could easily be a home run machine by year 3. On top of that, you are giving up a 2nd round pick. I wouldn't sign him for $44 million anyways. Also, the White Sox last 6 2nd round picks? Tyler Danish Chris Beck Erik Johnson Jake Petricka Trayce Thompson David Holmberg All have been or still are very valuable prospects at one point or another. They're drafting much better. This is a silly topic for conversation. The White Sox were interested in Tanaka because it was a special case where they were signing a guy who hasn't reached his prime years. Considering the moves they've made to get younger all across the board (save signing Scott Downs to a freakin 1 year deal), the idea that they're going to commit a lot of money to a player on the wrong side of 30 is ridiculous. That's how they got into this mess in the first place. If the fire burns you once, the logical thing to do is touch it again, right?

Of course, part of the intoxication is not the loss of reaction time but also the loss of motor skills, which is where swerving comes into play, and the loss of cognition and intelligence, which is when you see people driving the wrong way up a one way. **not that these can't happen while texting or talking on the phone, they are both incredibly dangerous as well.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) The point is if you get that kind of year out of him and the team is a 76 win team, he is easily tradeable. You get another Avasail Garcia-type prospect. If you are going to sign a free agent pitcher, chances are if they aren't 30, they will be soon. But you can take an Avisail Garcia type prospect with the 2nd round pick that you have to forfeit to sign him. And then if he has a bad year - which is very, very possible - you can't do so. The Sox have 7 starters I feel comfortable with them starting in the majors this year, and that number could easily turn into 8 or 9 by the end of the year. There is no need for them to sign a free agent in which they'd have to give up draft pick compensation at the moment.

No access to YouTube, but I watched it on my phone, and this is awesome as ever. http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-is-still-hilar...p-re-1508158358

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 24, 2014 -> 09:57 AM) Expensive relative to what? The money you and I make? Or the going rate for pitchers like Scott Feldman and Scott Kazmir who make 10 or 11 million dollars a year? And you're still ignoring the fact that Ervin Santana is a better pitcher than you're giving him credit for. 4 out of the last 6 years he's pitched 210+ innings and posted a sub 4 era. And 3 times his ERA was sub 3.5. All while pitching in the AL. So what's the risk? He has 1 bad year out of the 4 he's under contract for? Sign me up. The risk is that the dude is 31. Check pitchers historically from ages 18-30 and pitchers from ages 31-42. They tend to lose velocity, lose break, and become more injury prone. It's going to be all downhill from here for Santana. You may get another 3.75 ERA, 210 IP year out of him this year, but for what? A 76 win team? Maybe he pushes them to 78? The value of those additional wins on the value added win curve is very small. The following year, he might be at 4.00 and 200 IP. It's not going to continue to get better. By the time the Sox are expected contenders - we'll say 2016 - Santana is going to be 33 years old with 2 years remaining on his deal. The Sox will have had ample opportunities to add starting pitchers in the meantime that are as good or better than Santana, and they won't come at the price that Santana does. Tanaka made sense because he is 25. You can expect that he'll get better. You can't say the same for the remaining starting pitchers. Those are the only types of players the Sox should be targeting at this point. That's why Santana does not make sense.

They're easy to cheer against, but the the super team in Miami has made the NBA wildly entertaining as far as I'm concerned.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 07:01 PM) Worse case scenario is trade Quintana and make Jimenez and Danks #4 and #5.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 10:07 AM) I dont think Trayce Thompson should even be sniffinf the top 10 at this point, otherwise I think this is a great list. He took some very important strides last year, even if the overall numbers don't show it. His BB% was good, his K% improved, and he still showed power and speed. Most likely, he's going to be a 4th outfielder for the team for 3-5 years, but with players like Trayce, it can sometimes just be a light switch sort of thing where he makes one adjustment and he's suddenly a .250/.350/.450/.800 25/25 kind of player with very good defense in CF. That's a 4+ WAR player and one of the better CFers in the league. That's why he's still top 10.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 11:13 PM) Just because you continue to condescending repeat things I've never said does not suddenly make it seem like I said those things. You are trying way too hard to try and put words in my mouth, it's perplexing. I am quoting things you say. That's the exact OPPOSITE of putting words in your mouth.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 04:14 PM) Problem is the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, and Cubs will be looking for starters too. It will be a Tanaka situation all over again for the Sox. Why spend $16M or more next year for a pitcher you can get for $12M or less this year. Because you have no idea what the market is going to look like next year or what shape the White Sox rotation will be. There's no need for a starter this year. Let guys figure it out. If you need a starter that badly, accomodations can be made.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) There won't be any SP's of the same quality of Ervin Santana available for $14M per year next year, or any year. That is the point of the entire thread and idea. For whatever reason the market for SP's has completely dried up at this point and its a good time to capitalize. $14M a year is almost nothing for a SP recently, why not take a chance on 1 that just put up a 3.2 ERA? I have no idea why anybody wouldn't want to do that. You apparently hate Brandon McCarthy, Jake Peavy, and Homer Bailey, among others.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:37 PM) My daughter is moving from Chicago to Dallas in a week or so and I'm looking for ideas on saving money. She is living ina small studio apartment in Lakeview (sublease available), and about the only big furniture she has is a queen size bed and headboard. Renting a truck to move it doesn't really make sense. Full size vans are not available for one way rentals, only round trip. She is probably buying a car this weekend but won't be able to tow anything with it. I'm trying to avoid driving all the way back to Chicago (3,200 mile round trip). Also she is planning on using space bags to compress her clothes and stuff to fit more in her car. Other tips on cheap long distance moves? If it can be replaced easily, don't bring it. It sucks to buy new stuff - whether actually new or used - but that's part of the problem faced with moving.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:27 PM) Is the world ending and you're not telling anybody?? You do know there will be a 2015 MLB season right? And I'm pretty sure the White Sox are still participating. Not every move has to have an immediate impact. And signing any SP doesn't affect Erik Johnson....taking away a rotation spot from the other 2 guys? Don't care. They are dime a dozen 5th starters who can be found anywhere. Unfortunately for you, the White Sox do care, and for the long-term health of the rotation and the team, that's a good thing. If Paulino/Rienzo/Surkamp can turn into a 4.00 ERA sort of pitcher with promise to continue improving, then they can allot that money elsewhere. Tanaka was a special scenario as he fit a very specific and criteria for signing him. The remaining free agents are not.

Rafi's hand is f'ed up

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 03:30 PM) Mike Pettine has been fired by the Browns for not making the playoffs yet. woo

Mike Pettine to Cleveland

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jan 23, 2014 -> 02:57 PM) The key is to keep patient and to drive the ball up the middle and to right field on the pitch away. Recognition of the pitch and how to attack it is usually a hard thing for young hitters as they come to the bigs. The breaking pitches are a lot tighter and the break is later. When you cheat like this at times is when scouting reports the second time through will kill you until you adjust back. And the difference with catchers is that they have so much more going on both on and off the field. They are working with pitchers at all times coming up with plans of attack for hitters, learning hitters' weaknesses and pitchers' strengths. Then during the game, his knees are inevitably going to be sore from croushing while he's balancing what's going on with his pitchers and their batters while he's trying to worry about the pitcher on the mound as well. It's a bit overwhelming, especially for a young guy.