witesoxfan

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 10:20 PM) AJ back to the Sox makes way too much sense...except for the inexplicable backlash from a weird part of our fanbase. Yes, because it's imperative that the Sox win 78 games this season.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 10:23 PM) former White Sox Dan Hudson non-tendered by Arizona. Wow. I was wrong.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:54 PM) I don't think you're being overly harsh -- I think that's about right. I think the argument for JPA is something like this: I'm pretty sure the left shoe I have won't work out once I try it on the job, I may as well hedge my bets and bring another one to work to increase the chance that I can get one of them to do be what I need. Is that enough to justify the cost of acquiring him? It's possible, if the price is low enough. However, there's also the opportunity cost to consider -- a flyer on JPA for next to nothing might be better than doing nothing at all, but it wouldn't be better than almost every other effort to improve the C position. I just hate the idea that Arencibia represents. My other qualm is this - Arencibia has somewhere around 1000-1500 plate appearances on his record. He has had some success at the MLB level. But in his 3rd season as a starter, he took a gigantic step backwards. We are ready to give up on Flowers and Phegley after half a season starting by each, and Arencibia took that step back in the 3rd. If Beckham had put up his .800/.680/.680 or whatever, and then came back with a .600 bomb, there's no question how people feel about him, regardless of the replacements on hand. That's how people should also feel and consider Arencibia. On a minor league deal - great, grand, wonderful. That's not going to happen though.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:38 PM) The question is this: is adding JPA thee best allocation of whatever resources it requires? Because he won't be "free" -- he'll either cost some amount of talent in a trade or a few million bucks to sign. Lots of teams will take a flyer on him at or around league minimum, we'd have to offer more PT or money to lure him from a contender. I think the best hope for Arencibia is a guy like John Buck. I'm being overly harsh, but I also think guys like Flowers and Phegley can be like John Buck too. If you have 2 left shoes, should you try and acquire another left shoe or to try and find a right shoe?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) I know. What I meant is we have too many players who hit .230 or under as is. Then why do you want another who does not have a lot of team controlled years left who was like the second worst catcher in the game last year? At least Phegley was a rookie getting his first taste of big league pitching. Arencibia was entering his 3rd full year as a starting player and put up that junk.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:27 PM) But if we got JPA for practically nothing, would you want him? Sure, he and Flowers both have terrible averages, but Arencibia produces more runs. No. And I think the idea that he produces more runs is wrong too. I think they produce roughly the same amount of runs, which is jack s***.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:22 PM) Arencibia's 162 game averages- .212, 27/82, OBP of .258 Flowers' 162 game averages- .200, 19/45, OBP of .279 Yes, that's exactly my point. They both blow. There's no need to replace Flowers with Flowers, just as the Blue Jays believe that there is no need to replace Arencibia with Arencibia. At this point, keep the devil you know ORRRR get rid of Flowers and don't ever, ever, ever talk to Arencibia.

In the absolute best case scenario, you are replacing a pile of s*** with a puddle of piss. Let's look to upgrade to at least mud, can we?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:14 PM) I'd usually say that we don't need another .230 or below hitter, but he'd be replacing Phlowers. If we don't give much up, I wouldn't be opposed to it. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 04:01 PM) J.P Arencibia will be non-tendered or traded. Toronto already talking to one team about a trade. (He will either be traded or a free agent by tomorrow.) I think I've said this about 100 times today, but as a collective fan base, we should hope that this is entirely irrelevant to the White Sox. JP Arencibia is terrible and is not an upgrade over Tyler Flowers or Josh Phegley or anybody on the roster.

JP Arencibia is not an upgrade over Tyler Flowers. Let the Astros or Marlins sign him.

Since deleted, but... It should be a league rule saying that a defender can not tackle a player by his penis. #NFL the most painful thing ever! #NFL — Vernon Davis (@VernonDavis85) December 2, 2013

I don't see the necessity of having a left handed hitting back up on this team. Again, I think the goal is to find a catcher you believe will be able to be a starter going forward.

If you were ever going to transition from Cover 2/4-3 to a 3-4, this would be the year for it.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 02:02 PM) You totally underestimate the role of a catcher. Almost every year in the World series a rookie plays for one of the teams. This year Boston had a rookie 3b/SS play a pivotable role. But in history, there has only been 5 rookie catchers start in a World Series. Even more amazing, only 1 rookie catcher in history has played for the winning World Series team-----Buster Posey. Pitching coaches work with the pitchers all the time but the catcher is very important during the actual game. The old adage of having strength up the middle starts at catcher. Now maybe Flowers or Phegley are really good working with pitchers. But usually young catchers struggling offensively are not because they are working on their own problems. This is all fine and dandy, but I do not consider the White Sox a contender for the World Series this year. I don't even consider them a contender for the division. If everything falls into place, then yes, but this can be said about all 30 teams and a lot of those teams are incredible long shots to get all of those things to fall into place. For the Sox to win, they'd need about 5-8 players to really break out and have great years while also needing injuries to strike the Tigers, Royals, and Indians. What I hope the Sox front office is interested in is finding a young catcher that they believe has the tools to become an everyday catcher. A guy who can handle the staff, throw runners out, and hit the ball a little. If that's Flowers, Phegley, Perez, John Doe, or whoever, I don't care. What I am saying is that they will not have that guy moving forward in Ryan Hanigan. Also, regarding Phegley and Flowers - I have no actual proof, because it's generally impossible for fans to prove it - but I imagine a lot of their problems stem from getting to know their pitchers and playing on a full time basis, which is not an easy task to undertake. Still, I think those two handled the staff about as well as any player in the majors could have handled that staff. Reports are that Flowers is great in the clubhouse, so I also imagine he's good with the pitchers too.

QUOTE (sammy esposito @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:46 PM) Beckham can play 3rd. Beckham would hit NL pitching better. Beckham has a decent contract. These are all interesting points that generally have nothing to do with any hypothetical Chase Headley trade. In 287 plate appearances versus the NL, Beckham has put up splits of .272/.325/.413/.738. It's better than he has hit otherwise; it's still not very good. He also hasn't played 3B since his rookie year, so he'd almost certainly be detrimental to the team at 3B. Saying he can play 3B is pretty similar to saying Omar Vizquel can play 3B, except that Vizquel has done it more recently. He also does not have a decent contract because, in fact, he has no contract. He's currently under control of the White Sox, and the Sox have the choice as to whether or not they offer him a contract, but he does not have one. Semantics aside, he's going to get about $4-5 mill this year and about $6-7 mill next year (if he's even offered a contract). That is not a decent contract and the Padres, nay, any team would have little cost controlled time of Beckham, and they aren't even good prices. He also has 2000 plate appearances of a very mediocre offense and he'd be moving to the best pitcher's park in the league. If he would put up even a .650 OPS - say .230/.300/.350 - I'd be surprised. The only way the Padres would accept Beckham is as a throw in. He's a pretty worthless player overall (in trade talk).

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:32 PM) Had someome purpose that we trade for Arencibia.....but also giving up Gordon and Flowers.... Flowers is a better player, so the idea of that is preposterous.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 01:12 PM) I think they'd want something like Semien and Reed/Jones. I'd try something like Reed/Sanchez+ They would want way more than Semien and a reliever. They surely aren't going to take Reed and Sanchez. To acquire Headley, you are talking about trading a guy like Avisail or Quintana. You may be able to work it out around Santiago, but you're probably including a couple of other prospects that you don't want to as well. I really like Headley, and he'd make the team a lot better, but you could theoretically be talking about taking the Sox from a 72 win team to a 78 win team. The value of those wins is somewhat detrimental. I'd rather they give young guys chances at 3B right now, especially given that the Sox have a couple guys who can play that position right now.

QUOTE (Stan Bahnsen @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:21 PM) The team's ranking within the league dropped off steadily throughout the season, and was much higher through most of it. Yes, there's room for a lot of improvement. Losing 128 innings of horrid Axelrod (and you know the second half of his season is especially horrid, because the first half wasn't), 138 innings of the "meatball version" of Danks, and 5 starts from an injured Floyd can go a long way toward that improvement. We have a group of young starters more prepared to pitch effectively through a longer stretch of the season than we've had in some time. Last year's inning totals for our top 7 "kids" (all prof. leagues included): Sale 214, up from 192 in '12 Q 200, up from 185 Hector 149, up from 85 EJohnson 170, up from 92 Rienzo 169, up from 103 Bassitt ~170, up from 91 Beck 147, up from 40 (not incl. college innings, didn't bother to look) Didn't include Danks here as he's a special case of injury recovery. If he's effective, then he shouldn't have too much difficulty ramping back into the 200 inning range where he resided from '08 to '10. In a nutshell, we should have little to none fatigue effects this year dragging down the late-season numbers. The bulk of the conditioning has already been accomplished. IF we are competitive, and I know that's not super-likely, we shouldn't falter because the staff is "out of gas". I don't disagree with any of this and, in fact, do really like the pitching staff going forward. Just basically pointing out that, even though we felt it was a good pitching staff, compared to the rest of the league it was pretty average. There is most definitely room for it to grow and improve and be a top 5 staff in the AL next season. They'd still need a lot to go right for that to happen.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:28 PM) Agree but don't forget we have a young starting pitching staff w 2 basically inexperienced catchers. A veteran catcher even if he is a back-up can help w the development of the pitchers. That should not be a veteran catcher's job, that should be a coach's job. I'd rather go with 2 young catchers who can feed into each other while having a guy who has played catcher in the majors bring them along.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:03 PM) They are in QB hell right now. They have so much invested in Bradford, it's hard to just dump him, especially after the injury. But he hasn't shown to be a franchise QB yet. He does have 2 years left after this past year. Frankly though, as I said above, I think you have to make the decision as to whether or not you believe he is the QB of the future. If not, you cut him and move on.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 12:05 PM) Bob Dutton ‏@Royals_Report 15m #Royals non-tender 2B Chris Getz; he's now a free agent. I think the St. Paul Saints just found their 2B.

QUOTE (Jillian Michaels' Abs @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 11:32 AM) Tyler Flowers minor league numbers: .275/.391/.484/.876 Carlos Perez isn't an every day major league catcher and will be terrible if the Sox expect him to produce better than, or even the same level as, Phegley or Flowers. So ya, let us just forget about this awful idea. Mythical god and White Sox legend AJ Pierzynski, who people just can't seem to let go, put up .287/.323/.414/.737 in the minors. Perennial MVP candidate Yadier Molina was a career .278/.335/.368/.703 hitter in the minors. He draws walks, he makes good contact, and he plays good defense. You pay $50K to bring him in with an ultimate risk of $25K because you can offer him back for $25K to the Astros if you don't like him, which is pennies for the White Sox organization. You are taking on no risk for what could ultimately be the variable "some" reward. If the Sox don't want him or don't see a fit, they simply give him back. This is not an awful idea. This is how smart teams operate. I'm not suggesting they give him 500 plate appearances next year or that he'd ever develop into anything more than a backup, but when the alternatives are spending $40+ mill a year on Saltalamacchia, giving up very good prospects while likely ultimately losing Wieters, trading for a defensively challenged and older player in Jaso, trading for Ryan f***ing Hanigan, or coming back with nothing and going into next year with Tyler Flowers coming off shoulder surgery and Josh Phegley, what do you want to do?

QUOTE (GoSox05 @ Dec 2, 2013 -> 11:14 AM) Whatever they end up doing, I hope they mess it up. The Rams with a good QB would be a real headache to the rest of the NFC. The Cardinals need to improve their running game, but they're a legitimate threat in the NFC right now too. The NFC in general went from punks to studs in a matter of 2 years.

Jairo Asencio used to be Luis Valdez. His numbers do not inspire. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/v/valdelu01.shtml Denis Phipps has had one really good season, otherwise he's been a very mediocre player. http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/p...id=phipps001den Both Dominican players.